Right to die: Belgian doctors rule depressed 24-year-old woman has right to end her l

PeterJens · Jul 2, 2015

This is so odd. If someone wants to die, has conginative function, can move, buy things, dying is not difficult.
The problem is when the state gets involved, to take away the guilt from the individual.

This is only a strange way to introduce euthansia, like abortion, by saying this poor individual we need to help them. Open this door and a slight depressive episode means you can find an exit. If someone is a nuisance, they should choose the only decent option.

A moral ethical commitee decided if you can abort babies after 24 weeks why not young babies.

There unfortunately no end to people who do not hold with the sanctity of life but diminish the beauty of life and love.
We need to defend this reduction of life just into a materialistic machine with an exit, not a gift given by God for us to discover eternity.

Angela53510 · Jul 2, 2015

My sister has often said this with regards to a mutual relative who is always threatening to fly to Europe to get someone to kill him because of his miserable life.

She says, "If they are not comatose or a quadrapelegic, then they should figure out how to take their own life, and get the guts to do it."

I am not that radical. Part of my ministry is helping people with depression. Suicide (state sanctioned or otherwise!) is a long term solution to a short term problem.

It scares me that this will jump the pond, and Canada will start executing depressed people. And they can recover, they really can! I know I did!

AllanSnackbar · Jul 3, 2015

I'm sure depression never existed 20 years ago. At least I never used to hear about it.

What is it with mans desire to label everything.

Brother_J_BELGIUM · Jul 3, 2015

I'm from Belgium and I think this is horrible. Both the suffering of this woman Laura who has been depressive for all her life and the fact that she is willing to put an end to her life, probably without being saved. For you Americans euthanasia is something completely foreign (it's illegal in the US, right?) but here in Belgium this is legal, as sad as it is. The reason why this is so, is because Belgium, like many other rich Western European countries, has left its Judeo-Christian roots for the humanistic mind. People here only care about this life (physical) and not about what might come after their death (spiritual). That's why euthanasia is so common here and almost universally socially acceptable. Why suffer for years if you can make an end to your long suffering by having euthanasia? What do they have to lose? Nothing. But that's their way of reasoning and very dangerous indeed, as viewed from a Christian perspective.

wwjd_kilden · Jul 3, 2015

AllanSnackbar said:

uh, Solomon sounds depressed to me throughout most of Ecclesiastes.

AllanSnackbar · Jul 3, 2015

wwjd_kilden said:

Was it bipolar? Normal depression? Work Related Stress?

Angela53510 · Jul 3, 2015

" Why are you so depressed, O my soul
and why are you in turmoil within me?
Hope in God; for I shall again praise him,
my salvation." Psalm 42:5 HBCS"

My grandmother was diagnosed and hospitalized for severe depression, over 50 years ago. I'm not sure why you pull this number, 20 years ago out of a hat! I was also treated for depression about 15 years ago, brought on by the pain of RA, and experienced depression in my teens in the 1960's.

zoii · Jul 3, 2015

Oh my heart breaks for this girl. To suffer so much that everyday is unbearable to the point where you just want to end it. Oh any problem I think I have just seems so small next to this poor girl. I just feel for her so much and wish I could take her suffering away from her

AllanSnackbar · Jul 3, 2015

Angela53510 said:

Honestly Angela, it was never a term I was ever exposed to back then. Maybe I was fortunate enough to never encounter it in my circle of friends and family. And to be honest I've never understood it.

It only seems to be recently that more and more people seem to suffer from it.

skylove7 · Jul 3, 2015

Well I get the blues often.

I am not ashamed of it.

I mean this world is sad.
Rather it be loved ones in pain.
Or news reports.

I mean when I see ISIS on the news has murdered more Christians.
Pardon me...Im not having a fiesta about it.

I cannot understand or relate to people that say they never had depression.

Are they numb to feelings.

I just dont get it. Forgive me but I dont.

Miri · Jul 3, 2015

Nautilus said:

Hi Nautilus,

The difficulty is people think by killing themselves they are escaping the
difficulties and sorrows of this world. The reality is that for the unsaved they
are just swapping it for an eternity in hell.

Isaiah 55:6-9 NKJV
[6] Seek the LORD while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near.
[7] Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the LORD, And He will have mercy on him; And to our
God, For He will abundantly pardon. [8] "For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD. [9] "For as the heavens are higher
than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your
thoughts.

The appaling thing about all of this is that the legislators and decision makers, judges
are suppose to do what is right, including protecting the weak. They are not suppose
to stand their with a pitch fork encouraging people "to jump."

Psalm 82:1-8 AMP
[2] How long will you magistrates or judges judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked?
Selah pause, and calmly think of that! [3] Do justice to the weak (poor) and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the afflicted and needy. [4] Deliver the poor and needy; rescue
them out of the hand of the wicked. [5] The magistrates and judges know not, neither
will they understand; they walk on in the darkness of complacent satisfaction; all the
foundations of the earth the fundamental principles upon which rests the administration
of justice are shaking. [6] I said, You are gods since you judge on My behalf, as My
representatives; indeed, all of you are children of the Most High.
[7] But you shall die as men and fall as one of the princes.
[8] Arise, O God, judge the earth! For to You belong all the nations.

What about the families who consent to this or the medical staff who conduct
the murder (because that is what this is). How do they live with the burden of
that. How can a person place that burden on another person.

Speaking theoretically if you were the one administering the drugs to kill
someone who was mentally weak, sick, depressed, etc would you be able to
live with that for the rest of you life? Would you not wonder if the depressed
person might have got better and lived a full life. What would happen if you
administered the drugs then the next day, it was announced that a cure had been
found for that illness.

What if you realised the full implications of helping send someone to an early death to
spend an eternity in hell.

Unfortunately an issue like this is not just about the sick person, it involves
a wide circle of people.

Lord prevent this destruction of human life, step in and influence the
law makers. Prevent this from spreading to other countries. Bring conviction
to the hearts of mankind. Amen

Viligant_Warrior · Jul 3, 2015

AllanSnackbar said:

Read the stories of Saul, Miphibosheth, even Jeremiah. David experienced depression while running from Saul. Peter, after his denial of Christ. Depression has been around since Eve gave Adam that stupid piece of fruit.

Angela53510 · Jul 3, 2015

AllanSnackbar said:

Probably the reason you didn't hear about it was because of the stigma. It took me about 30 years before I heard why my grandmother was hospitalized. Now, there is a strong movement to destigmatize depression, especially, because 10% of the population will go through it at some time in their lives.

Other mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia still are quite stigmatized, IMO because the media contributes to it by publishing any episodes of psychotic behaviour, even if it is not accompanied by violence or death. And all of the people I work in my ministry have never hurt or threatened anyone, even when psychotic! So some work to be done by those advocating for the mentally ill.

I was also thinking of how depressed Elijah was when Queen Jezebel and King Ahab were after him. I was reading it back about 16 years ago, and how the words of the angel spoke to me and I got up and ate and felt better.

"4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness and came and sat down under a broom tree. And he asked that he might die, saying, “It is enough; now, O Lord, take away my life, for I am no better than my fathers.” 5 And he lay down and slept under a broom tree. And behold, an angel touched him and said to him, “Arise and eat.” 6 And he looked, and behold, there was at his head a cake baked on hot stones and a jar of water. And he ate and drank and lay down again. 7 And the angel of the Lord came again a second time and touched him and said, “Arise and eat, for the journey is too great for you.”" 1 Kings 19:4-7

bowharp · Jul 3, 2015

Angela53510 said:

Probably the reason you didn't hear about it was because of the stigma. It took me about 30 years before I heard why my grandmother was hospitalized. Now, there is a strong movement to destigmatize depression, especially, because 10% of the population will go through it at some time in their lives.

Other mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia still are quite stigmatized, IMO because the media contributes to it by publishing any episodes of psychotic behaviour, even if it is not accompanied by violence or death. And all of the people I work in my ministry have never hurt or threatened anyone, even when psychotic! So some work to be done by those advocating for the mentally ill.

I was also thinking of how depressed Elijah was when Queen Jezebel and King Ahab were after him. I was reading it back about 16 years ago, and how the words of the angel spoke to me and I got up and ate and felt better.

"4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness and came and sat down under a broom tree. And he asked that he might die, saying, “It is enough; now, O Lord, take away my life, for I am no better than my fathers.”5 And he lay down and slept under a broom tree. And behold, an angel touched him and said to him, “Arise and eat.”6 And he looked, and behold, there was at his head a cake baked on hot stones and a jar of water. And he ate and drank and lay down again.7 And the angel of the Lord came again a second time and touched him and said, “Arise and eat, for the journey is too great for you.”" 1 Kings 19:4-7

You wrote in one of your post, a while back, that the Book Of Psalm helped you.

Just wanted to say, thank you for reminding me.

Book Of Psalm, has been a balm to my wounded heart and soul.

Thank you for sharing your testimony.

crossnote · Jul 3, 2015

JOB

Job 3:2-12 (KJV)
2 And Job spake, and said,
3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
5 Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
6 As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
7 Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
8 Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.
9 Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
10 Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?

I could go on but it would be about half the book.

Viligant_Warrior · Jul 3, 2015

Someone please rep Cross for me. "Gotta spread it around," this socialistic rep system says. (I stole that from somebody, can't remember who said it recently.)

Anyway, how could I forget Job? The classic major depressive disorder of the Bible.

TaylorTG · Jul 3, 2015

Angela53510 said:

Would it be accurate to say that suicide is a solution?

Suicide involves committing an act of violence against oneself. Various forms of violence, and things which may lead to violence, are condemned in scripture. Strife, jealously, etc.

Any action which fosters stride and despair (which suicide represents readily, especially to the family members and friends of the suicidal person) may lead us further into Hell.

That being said, if suicide will lead one into Hell, then can it really be called a solution?

Perhaps a more fitting term would be : 'copout'.

JustAnotherUser · Jul 4, 2015

I'm not going to look at any articles to seek further on the situation. I will give my input as someone who can relate to some extent of the struggles people who do get depressed along with other contributing factors that involves genetics, environmental and lifestyle choices.

It comes down to two things: population control and advancements that are simply way ahead of the expectations as compared to the evolutionary terms of humanity's time. When I say evolutionary, I mean this in the way of the priorities shifting, logic/thinking and shaping society in ways that was never possible up until the twentieth - twenty-first century. Technology taking a huge part of this and trying to invent things that go further into trying to gain control of the pattern humanity along with the rest of life's existence runs and therefore it makes our standards of living itself evolve drastically. Many inventions and advancements have brought a greater good in terms of certain illnesses and giving those who would never stand a chance even a hundred years ago by giving them assistance to live a decent life now. But along with the greater good will also give greater consequence; some that can be destructive all together.

Mental disorders can stem from genetics and many of its behaviors contributed from environmental and lifestyle choices. I'm sure many of us know this. The healthier diet and structure of your environment gives better quality of life. What ever the mind is given as the response of what toxins are put in our body also recycles with what toxins we put in our minds will give a physical response. I would say that mental health is just as if not more important to learn about since it's being brought into light than it ever has been when given results of what certain illnesses and causes of addictions and destructive behavior does to a person. Many of us who suffer with such abnormalities would be abandoned in an asylum and possibly tortured because half of the symptoms given back then was enough to label the person as insane or mentally retarded.

How does it come down to the two factors? The growing advancements that make living nearly and completely changed as compared to what our ancestors have done and the fact that these advancements are also giving longer, better quality lives and thus higher birthrates than death rates. Some things we're simply not 'there' yet and it's a shame that we're trying to find quick solutions to problems we can barely get a grip on as well. As sad as this may be, it's going to give people who look at the results of how all the differences made consider that as more quantity of life is being formed, the less quality one person's life is going to become. Limited space and resources is a scare that many people have heard or thought about. Doctors can really only do so much for a patient and if the patient is deemed to be terminally ill and cannot be given any more improvements than what they can do, they move on to people who can be treated. Unfortunately, they're becoming broad on who is deemed to be 'savable' and who is more likely to grow as someone who will give more successful results and contributions in life. Why do you think that when it comes down to transplants or blood transfusion, they would give it to a younger patient or someone who has better quality service before someone who has lived more years and may not have as much quality of support?

If it came down to it, I would see the greater good of no longer using the resources that could clearly go to someone who could grow up and make more contributions to society. Do I ultimately support the idea to euthanize mentally ill people? Not unless everything under the sun was tried and it still may not work, which even then would give an extreme low percent of people who are not savable with every treatment given (doesn't mean they have to be free from the illness, but enough for them to still function and go on to live.) But with the state the world has been in, it's pretty clear that we're trying to do things that are not completely up to par with the rest of humanity itself and with that comes more restriction on who will strive the highest no matter what. I'll come to terms when it comes a time of people falling through such cracks and I'm one of them.

Romolomo · Jul 6, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Nobody can give life to someone else, so none of us should be able to take it from someone else. And none of us asked to be born, none of us should have to ask permission to die either.

crossnote · Jul 6, 2015

Romolomo said:

I know you are an atheist but there is One who does give life

Otherwise, life comes from randomness, is sustained by randomness and why not let it go randomly?

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