Robert E. Lee statue to be moved in Virginia

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Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
659
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#21
Robert E. Lee did not primarily fight to keep the institution of slavery alive, but even if your syllogism is valid, it doesn't make him Hiter.

Slavery is bad
Robert e lee participated and fought to keep slavery
Full stop
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
9,124
480
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#22
This is happening all over in American Cities............good or bad.........

Some will be happy and believe they have overcome

Some will be sad and believe that their History is being removed

Most will hear/read about it and ....... meh ........ they will go on with their day to day lives not understanding that there are serious discussion that should take place before such a thing happens.....

I understand how a Statue of a Confederate General/President can upset the Black community........after all, every time I see Farrakhan or Jessie Jackson, or Al Sharpton........ I get really, really sick to my stomach and am very angry that such people are allowed to speak/appear in public.........

I will happily see the R.E. Lee statue go away IF THEY WILL!
Freedom of speech is a thing
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
998
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#23
What kind of person says
This guy was a racist slave owner.
We should totally put up a monument in his Honor
Yeah right, one of the nastiest cruelest slave owners in SC was black, a former slave, he underfed his slaves and sold baby slave girls, even the white slave owners thought he was too cruel .. I think he had over 100 at one time and I think he bought and lived in a former governors home and grounds .. The monument destruction is culture and heritage destroyed to rewrite history ''fake news'' ..
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
998
113
#25
Robert E. Lee did not primarily fight to keep the institution of slavery alive, but even if your syllogism is valid, it doesn't make him Hiter.
Right after the war ended at church a black man went to the altar to pray, Robert E Lee went down and kneeled down beside him and prayed .. Where do you see this story in school ?
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
9,124
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#26
Yeah right, one of the nastiest cruelest slave owners in SC was black, a former slave, he underfed his slaves and sold baby slave girls, even the white slave owners thought he was too cruel .. I think he had over 100 at one time and I think he bought and lived in a former governors home and grounds .. The monument destruction is culture and heritage destroyed to rewrite history ''fake news'' ..
Your logical fallacy is called red herring.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,919
4,684
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#28
by the way, why do the chiefs of the african tribes that sold their own people to the european ( and muslim) slavers get a free pass??
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
659
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#29
You're missing or dodging a pretty important point here.

The Holocaust was a campaign of extermination which was planned and operated by the elite of a revolutionary regime. Even the regular army generals in the Wehrmacht such as Erwin Rommel cannot be compared with Hitler's supreme evil on these grounds. Nor Zhukov with Stalin.

American chattel slavery was a social and economic system that Lee was born into. It had existed for roughly 200 years before his birth. He didn't build it himself or even defend the people building it. By that point, it was more comparable to medieval serfdom. The slave trade itself, the catalyst for the deaths you referenced, was extinguished long before Lee's birth. It was perpetrated by people of many nationalities as well, not just American Southerners. This is a relevant fact.

The men are hardly comparable and so are their statues.

Slavery is bad
Robert e lee participated and fought to keep slavery
Full stop
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
659
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#30
But this whole discussion on Lee v. Hitler statues is a distraction from the main point- the criteria we use to erect a statue and/or keep a statue.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
9,124
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#31
Point ... Removing monuments doesn't just magically make history disappear
I object to monuments of white supremacy on any properties my tax dollars pay for
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
659
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#32
It doesn't make history disappear in a literal sense, but the destruction of a monument indeed impacts our memory of great events and people. It's also a physical demonstration of ignorance born of self-righteousness.

Point ... Removing monuments doesn't just magically make history disappear
I object to monuments of white supremacy on any properties my tax dollars pay for
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
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#33
It’s all about who or what you seek righteousness in.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
9,124
480
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#34
I would like to see them all come down. White supremacy is not something that should be celebrated
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
659
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#35
Statues are not necessarily celebratory and statues that were once celebratory sometimes become less celebratory with time and reflection.

"White Supremacy" is a poor criterion. The meaning of the term changes every ten minutes. One day people use it to describe David Duke. The next, Abraham Lincoln.

I would like to see them all come down. White supremacy is not something that should be celebrated
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
9,124
480
83
#36
Statues are not necessarily celebratory and statues that were once celebratory sometimes become less celebratory with time and reflection.

"White Supremacy" is a poor criterion. The meaning of the term changes every ten minutes. One day people use it to describe David Duke. The next, Abraham Lincoln.
if they owned other human beings as property, they should not be memorialized
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
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#37
Many of the most important thinkers and leaders throughout human history owned slaves or fought to preserve a country that owned slaves (often from other countries which owned slaves, granted).

If you want to be the blockhead who erases the Washington Monument, the Jefferson memorial, and every statue of Aristotle, Plato, Pericles, Caesar Augustus, George Whitfield, George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant etc, etc, etc. I'll notify Egypt your demolition teams are inbound.

if they owned other human beings as property, they should not be memorialized
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
9,124
480
83
#38
Many of the most important thinkers and leaders throughout human history owned slaves or fought to preserve a country that owned slaves (often from other countries which owned slaves, granted).

If you want to be the blockhead who erases the Washington Monument, the Jefferson memorial, and every statue of Aristotle, Plato, Pericles, Caesar Augustus, George Whitfield, George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant etc, etc, etc. I'll notify Egypt your demolition teams are inbound.
The pyramids were built by paid laborers
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
659
113
#40
Come to think of it, Confederate monuments were either erected by paid laborers or charitable craftsmen. Can they stay up now?