Russian army now in Syria?

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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#161
Dec 18, 2013
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#161
Look let us not lose our heads here and fight each other. In Syria there is no good faction. What sort of choice is it between secularist Assad and authoritarian Islamic State? What sort of choice is it between the millions of kings of America and Russia the land of the Tsars? Even then the clear enemy is the Islamic State and they are still holding strong whilst all the others fight each other.

Syria is a graveyard for the nations that go therein. Must hope for many to escape to Jesus and escape from the graveyard of Syria. Don't want them to bring the islam with them though, that is how they got a large bit of their problems like the Islamic State to begin with. Nor does it make sense to go from one bad area to another, but hope they escape to the good area and either they or their children become Christian.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#162
Feb 9, 2014
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#162
GodIsSalvation said:
Look let us not lose our heads here and fight each other. In Syria there is no good faction. What sort of choice is it between secularist Assad and authoritarian Islamic State? What sort of choice is it between the millions of kings of America and Russia the land of the Tsars? Even then the clear enemy is the Islamic State and they are still holding strong whilst all the others fight each other.

Syria is a graveyard for the nations that go therein. Must hope for many to escape to Jesus and escape from the graveyard of Syria. Don't want them to bring the islam with them though, that is how they got a large bit of their problems like the Islamic State to begin with. Nor does it make sense to go from one bad area to another, but hope they escape to the good area and either they or their children become Christian.
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Agreed. The fate of Syria is not worth a war between two great powers.

The United States would be better off hollowing out ISIS and strengthening stable allies in the region. The idea a new Sunni dominated republic in Syria would be any more friendly to their own population and other nations than Assad's regime is, I think, absurd given recent events.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#163
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#163
GodIsSalvation said:
Look let us not lose our heads here and fight each other. In Syria there is no good faction. What sort of choice is it between secularist Assad and authoritarian Islamic State? What sort of choice is it between the millions of kings of America and Russia the land of the Tsars? Even then the clear enemy is the Islamic State and they are still holding strong whilst all the others fight each other.

Syria is a graveyard for the nations that go therein. Must hope for many to escape to Jesus and escape from the graveyard of Syria. Don't want them to bring the islam with them though, that is how they got a large bit of their problems like the Islamic State to begin with. Nor does it make sense to go from one bad area to another, but hope they escape to the good area and either they or their children become Christian.
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Under the secularist Assad, minorities (e.g., Christians) were/are protected. Under the salafists the minorities would be wiped out or severely persecuted.
 
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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#164
Dec 18, 2013
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#164
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Under the secularist Assad, minorities (e.g., Christians) were/are protected. Under the salafists the minorities would be wiped out or severely persecuted.
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Remember under Assad the civil war and the persecutions began in the first place. Assad still has massacred his own people both to start the war and also during the war. For that he will always have millions of enemies even if the Islamic State is destroyed before him.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#165
Nov 24, 2012
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#165
GodIsSalvation said:
Remember under Assad the civil war and the persecutions began in the first place. Assad still has massacred his own people both to start the war and also during the war. For that he will always have millions of enemies even if the Islamic State is destroyed before him.
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I hate to say it but looking at the Arab Spring and such I have come to the conclusion that it takes a ruthless dictator to maintain some semblance of order in that area.
 
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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#167
Dec 18, 2013
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#167
crossnote said:
I hate to say it but looking at the Arab Spring and such I have come to the conclusion that it takes a ruthless dictator to maintain some semblance of order in that area.
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Yet without those dictators and their ruthlessness the Arab Spring would never have sprung. Somewhat a moot point though at this time seeing as the war is all ready on.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#168
Sep 4, 2012
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#168
GodIsSalvation said:
Remember under Assad the civil war and the persecutions began in the first place. Assad still has massacred his own people both to start the war and also during the war. For that he will always have millions of enemies even if the Islamic State is destroyed before him.
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How has Assad massacred his people that aren't jihadists, their families who live with them as they fight, and sympathizers who live among them as they fight?
 
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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#169
Dec 18, 2013
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#169
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
How has Assad massacred his people that aren't jihadists, their families who live with them as they fight, and sympathizers who live among them as they fight?
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Back in the heyday of the Arab Spring, protests erupted in Syria. Assad gunned down the protestors, and so the protestors got guns and became rebels. Assad started this war. Assad has used chemical weapons on his own people. Assad while claiming the protests were started by foreigners, he himself depends on foreign forces to keep his regime from falling. Aside from those main points which are widely known, there is copious video on youtube that can be found with simple search terms like "Assad army massacre" showing his forces being quite brutal, even torturing and murdering children.


There are no good guys in this war. Don't trust Assad or the Islamic State nor America or Russia.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#170
Sep 4, 2012
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#170
GodIsSalvation said:
Back in the heyday of the Arab Spring, protests erupted in Syria. Assad gunned down the protestors, and so the protestors got guns and became rebels. Assad started this war. Assad has used chemical weapons on his own people. Assad while claiming the protests were started by foreigners, he himself depends on foreign forces to keep his regime from falling. Aside from those main points which are widely known, there is copious video on youtube that can be found with simple search terms like "Assad army massacre" showing his forces being quite brutal, even torturing and murdering children.


There are no good guys in this war. Don't trust Assad or the Islamic State nor America or Russia.
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The chemical weapons thing is just propaganda. The terrorists were losing so this lie was created to try to get foreign intervention. It didn't work. The only people who are truly known to have used them is ISIS and Al Queda.

90-95% of the terrorists in Syria are foreign. It is a foreign invasion.

The Baathist regime were/are no angels, and that's part of the problem, but a lot of the Sunnis in Syria are salafists who are just violent crazy. It takes violence to put down violence.
 
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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#171
Dec 18, 2013
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#171
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The chemical weapons thing is just propaganda. The terrorists were losing so this lie was created to try to get foreign intervention. It didn't work. The only people who are truly known to have used them is ISIS and Al Queda.

90-95% of the terrorists in Syria are foreign. It is a foreign invasion.

The Baathist regime were/are no angels, and that's part of the problem, but a lot of the Sunnis in Syria are salafists who are just violent crazy. It takes violence to put down violence.
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Assad has been known to possess and also to have launched the chemical attacks, especially when the rebels almost seized Damascus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...864662-1196-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html

Indeed many of the rebels are foreigners, but then so are most of Assad's allies.

There is no good guys in this war. Violence won't end violence in Syria, it just feeds into it more and makes it grow. Those that take up the sword will perish by the sword.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#172
Nov 24, 2012
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#172
GodIsSalvation said:
Yet without those dictators and their ruthlessness the Arab Spring would never have sprung. Somewhat a moot point though at this time seeing as the war is all ready on.
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That's exactly my point, those areas went south after, Sadam, Mubarak (thanks to Sisi, it was held in check) , Khadafi and the same if Assad goes. Fortunately Russia, will keep that situation from overbrewing.
 
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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#173
Dec 18, 2013
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#173
crossnote said:
That's exactly my point, those areas went south after, Sadam, Mubarak (thanks to Sisi, it was held in check) , Khadafi and the same if Assad goes. Fortunately Russia, will keep that situation from overbrewing.
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If they were such great kings, why did they lose their thrones or have their nations broken to pieces under their feet? If God let them be deposed, who will restore them?

Is it because Saddam was a curse and a thief that he was given a cursed death at the end of a rope like a common thief?
Is it because Gaddafhi was prideful and brutal that he was beaten to death in the streets for all to see?
Is it because Mubarak unjustly imprisoned his own people that to prison he did go?
Is it because Assad was brutal and tried to divide and control his people that his nation has been brutally divided beyond all control?

Lament for Russia. Like a drunk bear he charges into the fray with lots of bravado, but he will come out of it sore wounded with a hangover.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#174
Feb 9, 2014
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#174
Or the bear will earn a staunch ally in Iran and convince the Sunni Gulf States that his protection racket is more reliable than America's.

It's a gamble. Putin's a gambler.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#175
Feb 9, 2014
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#175
Russian foreign policy est. 2008.

[video=youtube;YRke9pMnqEE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRke9pMnqEE[/video]
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#176
Sep 4, 2012
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689
113
#176
GodIsSalvation said:
Assad has been known to possess and also to have launched the chemical attacks, especially when the rebels almost seized Damascus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...864662-1196-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html

Indeed many of the rebels are foreigners, but then so are most of Assad's allies.

There is no good guys in this war. Violence won't end violence in Syria, it just feeds into it more and makes it grow. Those that take up the sword will perish by the sword.
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That's simply not true. That narrative never gained traction because all the evidence pointed to the terrorists who were trying to frame Assad. He's too smart to do something that stupid. But the terrorists had nothing to lose. And that's what terrorists do.

Every country at war has other countries as allies. What's the point?
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#177
#177
Desdichado said:
Or the bear will earn a staunch ally in Iran and convince the Sunni Gulf States that his protection racket is more reliable than America's.

It's a gamble. Putin's a gambler.
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He's a very strategic thinker and understands game theory in the context of statecraft. Crimea and Syria both, there was literally nothing the U.S. or the U.N. could do. No international laws were broken. Its a lot like chess. If you see an opportunity take out two enemy pieces without losing even a pawn, you do it.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#178
Feb 9, 2014
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#178
Donkeyfish07 said:
He's a very strategic thinker and understands game theory in the context of statecraft. Crimea and Syria both, there was literally nothing the U.S. or the U.N. could do. No international laws were broken. Its a lot like chess. If you see an opportunity take out two enemy pieces without losing even a pawn, you do it.
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He reminds me a great deal of Josef Stalin.
 
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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#179
Dec 18, 2013
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#179
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
That's simply not true. That narrative never gained traction because all the evidence pointed to the terrorists who were trying to frame Assad. He's too smart to do something that stupid. But the terrorists had nothing to lose. And that's what terrorists do.

Every country at war has other countries as allies. What's the point?
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How is it not true? His own generals were caught planning it and we caught them staging for it as the article explains. Assad was at that time even the only one in the region with a large enough stockpile and the means to deliver it. Plus look at the targets being the rebels close to seizing Damascus. Now we can give him a little excuse, for clearly he was desperate to keep his head, and if the rebels get to him, they'll savage him up more than they did Gaddafhi. I agree that the rebels also have conducted chemical attacks, so they are no better. Russia downplays Assad's chemical attacks and America downplays the rebels' chemical attacks. The point is not that one is better than the other, but that they are even the same.

A wise king does not rely on other nations, for they will always want something in return. This is how client states and empires are forged. Indeed as you mention almost every nation tend to not do this and instead have famous leagues and alliances, especially today, but it is also not unheard of either for some to not partake in alliances. The consequences will be seen and are recurring themes in history, even the Bible. Consider the good king Asa was still called in the Bible a good king even though he made the mistake on relying on the king of Syria. (2 Chronicles 16)
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#180
#180
GodIsSalvation said:
How is it not true? His own generals were caught planning it and we caught them staging for it as the article explains. Assad was at that time even the only one in the region with a large enough stockpile and the means to deliver it.
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That was debunked a long time ago. Sarin gas being used is indisputable and that is true, but Assad did not launch the attacks. It was the Syrian Rebels we funded. http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-...ainst-civilians-and-government-forces/5363139
 
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