The hatred of Jews
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'But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire' Mt 5:22.
While I'm dumbfounded that a Christian would give a nod to Nazis, getting angry and contentious over it isn't going to help or fix anything. Good respectful chatting is what I think would please God even if not reciprocated. 'Do everything as unto the Lord'. But I'm sure the vitriol will continue, masking the debate in question and leaving a bad taste.
While I'm dumbfounded that a Christian would give a nod to Nazis, getting angry and contentious over it isn't going to help or fix anything. Good respectful chatting is what I think would please God even if not reciprocated. 'Do everything as unto the Lord'. But I'm sure the vitriol will continue, masking the debate in question and leaving a bad taste.
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Not currently specifically; however, there are some posts on CC - search for the words 'abomination of desolation' in my posts. Of course, the search tool will not like the word 'of' - you might want to leave it out and just search for the other two words.
This is "related" - you might find it useful:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/whoso-readeth-let-him-understand.192848/
This is "related" - you might find it useful:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/whoso-readeth-let-him-understand.192848/
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There seems to be this opinion that the Jews (who ever they really are known) have a right to the land and have been given this promise forever no matter what they do. Even though God is Just he will accept whatever they d
Which is a bit ironic for Christians to believe forever as the rejected the Messiah and if its until the Messiah returns then it still not forever.
This can get extremely detailed as there are so many passages that as there are so many passages that our could use, but I have limited so as not to make this to excessive.
1) Where does it say Abraham was a Jew & They were a nation never a country
2) Seed – Ishmael was also seed – regardless of opinions of his worthiness
3)Leviticus 25:23 - ‘The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me.
(sojourners – foreign resident, settler, tenant)
4) They were not originally from there - Gen 12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.
5) Gen 18:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting [עוֹלָם (‘ō-w-lām) means long duration, antiquity, futurity] possession; and I will be their God.
6)Gen 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting [again ‘ō-w-lām] possession.
7) Jeremiah 31: 31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.
[Regardless of what convent Abraham or even Moses had its expired – therefore could not have been an everlasting convent]
What linage do we have – this is quite large but a few examples;
8) Esther 8:17 - And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.
9) Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
10) Ezek 21:3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
11) Ezek 21:32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
Who are the Jews and is everyone else excluded?
12) “I will record Rahab and Babylon among those who acknowledge me— Philistia too, and Tyre, along with Cush— and will say, ‘This one was born in Zion.’” Indeed, of Zion it will be said, “This one and that one were born in her, and the Most High himself will establish her.” The LORD will write in the register of the peoples: “This one was born in Zion.” (Psalm 87:4-6)
13) “Let no foreigners who have bound themselves to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely exclude me from his people.” … foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants … who hold fast to my covenant—these I will bring to my holy mountain… for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”” (Isaiah 56:3-7)
14) Ezekiel 47:21-23 - “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.”
15) Isaiah 2:2-3 - “In the last days the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it
So NO the Jews are not promised chosen people forever!
Which is a bit ironic for Christians to believe forever as the rejected the Messiah and if its until the Messiah returns then it still not forever.
This can get extremely detailed as there are so many passages that as there are so many passages that our could use, but I have limited so as not to make this to excessive.
1) Where does it say Abraham was a Jew & They were a nation never a country
2) Seed – Ishmael was also seed – regardless of opinions of his worthiness
3)Leviticus 25:23 - ‘The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me.
(sojourners – foreign resident, settler, tenant)
4) They were not originally from there - Gen 12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.
5) Gen 18:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting [עוֹלָם (‘ō-w-lām) means long duration, antiquity, futurity] possession; and I will be their God.
6)Gen 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting [again ‘ō-w-lām] possession.
7) Jeremiah 31: 31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.
[Regardless of what convent Abraham or even Moses had its expired – therefore could not have been an everlasting convent]
What linage do we have – this is quite large but a few examples;
8) Esther 8:17 - And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.
9) Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
10) Ezek 21:3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
11) Ezek 21:32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
Who are the Jews and is everyone else excluded?
12) “I will record Rahab and Babylon among those who acknowledge me— Philistia too, and Tyre, along with Cush— and will say, ‘This one was born in Zion.’” Indeed, of Zion it will be said, “This one and that one were born in her, and the Most High himself will establish her.” The LORD will write in the register of the peoples: “This one was born in Zion.” (Psalm 87:4-6)
13) “Let no foreigners who have bound themselves to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely exclude me from his people.” … foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants … who hold fast to my covenant—these I will bring to my holy mountain… for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”” (Isaiah 56:3-7)
14) Ezekiel 47:21-23 - “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.”
15) Isaiah 2:2-3 - “In the last days the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it
So NO the Jews are not promised chosen people forever!
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How do you mean this?
Which parts are completed and which parts have yet to happen, how do you decide what is yet to happen?
Yes, the principles and knowledge, but we are speaking about actual real time events, correct?
I am thinking the the historicist position is also a dual covenant /dual track salvation position correct?
Which parts are completed and which parts have yet to happen, how do you decide what is yet to happen?
Yes, the principles and knowledge, but we are speaking about actual real time events, correct?
I am thinking the the historicist position is also a dual covenant /dual track salvation position correct?
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Since when does the "time of JACOB's trouble" have anything to do with "all people"?
Anyway......I just put a couple of the nutters on ignore.
When you are that far gone (and evidently blind to the clear message of Scripture), I figure that they are a lost cause.
My best guess is that it has mostly to do with God's judgement falling upon them related to despising the Sons of Jacob.
Oh and another thing.....as Paul rightly says, we Christians owe a TREMEDOUS DEBT of gratitude to the Jewish nation.
All of their trials, all of their pain, all of their troubles, their dogged persistence, EVEN THEIR FAILURES:
all of it resulted in SALVATION FOR THE GENTILES.
Don't anyone ever forget it.
Anyway......I just put a couple of the nutters on ignore.
When you are that far gone (and evidently blind to the clear message of Scripture), I figure that they are a lost cause.
My best guess is that it has mostly to do with God's judgement falling upon them related to despising the Sons of Jacob.
Oh and another thing.....as Paul rightly says, we Christians owe a TREMEDOUS DEBT of gratitude to the Jewish nation.
All of their trials, all of their pain, all of their troubles, their dogged persistence, EVEN THEIR FAILURES:
all of it resulted in SALVATION FOR THE GENTILES.
Don't anyone ever forget it.
OK.....I know. And Paul knows. But you DO NOT know.
Better now?
Is disseminating eschatological nonsense to be considered a serious heresy?
Yes. Yes it is. And it is cause for immediate correction. And those who are in error must be marked out and either repent or get the boot.
2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Anyhoo.....you are in the iggy penalty box too. Enjoy the camaraderie of your equally addled cognoscenti.
Better now?
Is disseminating eschatological nonsense to be considered a serious heresy?
Yes. Yes it is. And it is cause for immediate correction. And those who are in error must be marked out and either repent or get the boot.
2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Anyhoo.....you are in the iggy penalty box too. Enjoy the camaraderie of your equally addled cognoscenti.
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There you go @TabinRivCA .....
Paul is NOT happy about eschatological heresies. And he sounded the alarm. And he named the offenders.
2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some
Paul is NOT happy about eschatological heresies. And he sounded the alarm. And he named the offenders.
2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some
Exactly. By their fruits ye shall know them. If you're unsure whether to distrust his patchy interpretations of different scriptures, at least distrust him on the basis of his arrogance and self-righteousness. Most of the Pharisees prided themselves on their understanding of scripture, and look where it got them.
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