The hatred of Jews

[Moses_Young]

They weren't called Christians till Antioch, but I get your meaning. Judas was very much a follower of Christ, a real, though not true disciple. There is nothing in scripture to suggest that he didn't share with the other disciples in the power gifted by Christ to cast out demons etc. Only to eventually have Satan enter into himself. David fell into adultery murder and spiritual blindness. Solomon completely lost his way. Peter walked on water and then thrice denied Him. The once brightest of Gods created beings is now the prince of darkness.

I don't think Judas ever believed.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

John 12:4 - 6
Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

 

[ZNP]

Big news for anyone who supports Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran in their war with Israel. Lebanon and Gaza have help wanted signs up, and I'm not talking about your run of the mill suicide bomber job, no, they need people to take the position at the very top. All you will need to do is stay in a "secure"* bunker while they put your name on their website as the top terrorist.

Also, they aren't just looking for one person, they are anticipating a lot of turnover in this position, almost daily.

*They are not responsible for the security of these bunkers. Also, since they are underground should you die from a bunker buster bomb the burial will be included.

 

[GaryA]

It is "just plain silly" if/when [Christian] folks cannot discuss/research/etc. "what is" without getting politically "bent out of shape" - the word 'hatred' should not even be used in the discussion unless you can show bona fide evidence of actual real hatred against a people. And, I am not referring to the players on the world stage - I am talking about the posters in this or a similar thread. Stating a fact or opinion in-of-itself is not 'hatred' of anyone or anything - it is merely something someone believes to be true. This should, at least, be the "default assumption" until the aforementioned evidence is clearly shown. Let us not be guilty of assuming 'hatred' where it is not present - sometimes, we see things only in our own mind after concluding a matter in our own thinking. Therefore, it is better to keep the focus of the discussion on the facts of the events of the world stage and off of each other...

Have a discussion about the thread topic and not a squabble about the confusion of perplexity.

And, if they are the same thing - of what use is the thread unless you work together to solve it?

 

[HeIsHere]

It is "just plain silly" if/when [Christian] folks cannot discuss/research/etc. "what is" without getting politically "bent out of shape" - the word 'hatred' should not even be used in the discussion unless you can show bona fide evidence of actual real hatred against a people. And, I am not referring to the players on the world stage - I am talking about the posters in this or a similar thread. Stating a fact or opinion in-of-itself is not 'hatred' of anyone or anything - it is merely something someone believes to be true. This should, at least, be the "default assumption" until the aforementioned evidence is clearly shown. Let us not be guilty of assuming 'hatred' where it is not present - sometimes, we see things only in our own mind after concluding a matter in our own thinking. Therefore, it is better to keep the focus of the discussion on the facts of the events of the world stage and off of each other...

Have a discussion about the thread topic and not a squabble about the confusion of perplexity.

And, if they are the same thing - of what use is the thread unless you work together to solve it?

We can hate the actions/policy of country/people/tribe etc., and hopefully most people are speaking in that manner, it is somewhat tedious to always specify IDF, government etc., but it is important.

Well stated.

 

[GaryA]

it is somewhat tedious to always specify IDF, government etc., but it is important.

Yes - clarification of who you are referring to is always helpful.

 

[ZNP]

I don't think Judas ever believed.

Judas believed in French benefits. The French can by your ally with all the benefits that entail right up until you actually need an ally in a war, at which time they could never be an ally to someone who would have the French as allies.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yet we have the promise affirmed in Chapter 11 that a remnant of natural Israel will still receive the promises given in the OT.

Thank you for the explanation.
I cannot see how Jesus did not fulfill all the promises made to Israel in the OT especially when reads the Book written to the Hebrews.

Do you believe it is a land promise that has yet to be fulfilled? I do find the historicist position confusing because it still requires matching headlines to scripture it seems.

I may have asked this but I could not find your response, so not sure, but who is natural Israel?

 

[cv5]

but who is natural Israel?

There are presently "NOW SAVED" saved Jews, known as "Christians".
And then, AFTER THE CHURCH AGE ENDS, there are yet-to-be-saved Jews who will be known as.....Israelites. Forever. Literally forever.
There will be an eternal Israel that will endure literally forever.

They will be saved yet future DURING THE TIME OF JACOBS TROUBLE.
Clear as a bell man, clear as a bell.

Hos 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
Hos 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

 

[HeIsHere]

There are presently "NOW SAVED" saved Jews, known as "Christians".
And then, AFTER THE CHURCH AGE ENDS, there are yet-to-be-saved Jews who will be known as.....Israelites. Forever. Literally forever.
There will be an eternal Israel that will endure literally forever.

They will be saved yet future DURING THE TIME OF JACOBS TROUBLE.
Clear as a bell man, clear as a bell.

Hos 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
Hos 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Maybe the time of Jacobs trouble already happened.
One only has to go about 3 or 4 generations back to find there might not be inheritance from an ancestor.
I guess Scofield and Darby did not know much about DNA... just sayin.

 

[GaryA]

Maybe the time of Jacobs trouble already happened.

The time of Jacobs trouble is Armageddon.

 

[HeIsHere]

The time of Jacobs trouble is Armageddon.

Maybe Armageddon already happened.

 

[GaryA]

Maybe Armageddon already happened.

Don't think so - all of the details of the prophecy have not been fulfilled...

For one thing - this is "all the world against Israel" (many nations) and not just a Roman army. Yes - it "sounds" a lot like circa 70 A.D. events; however, the full set of details do not seem to match - I believe it is a separate future event.

(Not to mention, it occurs after Jesus is present at His Second Coming.)

 

[Magenta]

I don't think Judas ever believed.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.) Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.” John 6:63-65

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I stand by Israel and the Jews!

That's the Biblically VALID position. In every case Israel has been the one ATTACKED.

 

[GaryA]

Please see the verses listed in the 'Armageddon' column of the table on this web page:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html

 

[HeIsHere]

Don't think so - all of the details of the prophecy have not been fulfilled...

For one thing - this is "all the world against Israel" (many nations) and not just a Roman army. Yes - it "sounds" a lot like circa 70 A.D. events; however, the full set of details do not seem to match - I believe it is a separate future event.

(Not to mention, it occurs after Jesus is present at His Second Coming.)

Are the people located there direct descendants of ancient Israel?

 

[GaryA]

Are the people located there direct descendants of ancient Israel?

No doubt "some" - as it is today; however, with regard to prophecy - remember that 'political' Israel and 'true' Israel are two different things - which one would you say Armageddon prophecy is referring to?

And, if you wish to insist that the answer is 'ancient' Israel - how does the prophecy of Zechariah fit into any point in time of the past?

 

[GaryA]

Clear as a bell man, clear as a bell.

You are aware that HeIsHere is a woman...?

 

[HeIsHere]

You are aware that HeIsHere is a woman...?

I think he was just using it as an expression, lol.

 

[GaryA]

I think he was just using it as an expression, lol.

I can see that possibility also...