U.S. Supreme Court declines stay 4 clerk refusing to issue gay marriage certificates
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suffice it to say... Naut. is not heavily burdened for other's souls. 
A
Kind of a moronic spiel you have going here. So, the lady didn't have all her duckies in a row for all 30 years, therefore she shouldn't start now?
What do you think of John Newton? Did you know he kept trading slaves even after being saved? He didn't quit because of any change of heart about trading slaves. He quit to become a minister. Only later in life did he become an abolitionist.
Oh, in case you don't know who Newton was -- he's the guy who wrote Amazing Grace. I guess he should never have stopped trading slaves, since he didn't stop immediately.
This is basically your silly argument. It's not biblical. It's arrogance.
What do you think of John Newton? Did you know he kept trading slaves even after being saved? He didn't quit because of any change of heart about trading slaves. He quit to become a minister. Only later in life did he become an abolitionist.
Oh, in case you don't know who Newton was -- he's the guy who wrote Amazing Grace. I guess he should never have stopped trading slaves, since he didn't stop immediately.
This is basically your silly argument. It's not biblical. It's arrogance.
A
In Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Communist China, etc... government workers followed immoral laws and interned a wide range of non-governmental moral people into hard prison death camps for failing to adhere to the immoral laws.
Perhaps, you shouldn't be so quick to support using those laws government passes which are biblically immoral to persecute moral people Nautilus.
We've had this discussion many times and you always reject that God's de jure moral law supersedes man-made de-facto laws when they come into conflict.
Perhaps, you shouldn't be so quick to support using those laws government passes which are biblically immoral to persecute moral people Nautilus.
We've had this discussion many times and you always reject that God's de jure moral law supersedes man-made de-facto laws when they come into conflict.
A
What is best case scenario for Davis here?
What's worse case?
What is accomplished either way?
IF we get out of this quagmire, it won't be through her. There's only one of two ways we get out of this one:
1. Next Congress abolishes that stupid non-law law. (Court doesn't create law. Legislators do, and yet the Supremes have been given a free pass as lawmakers for most, if not all, of my life now.) Considering we're still waiting around for them to hold their promise about the abortion non-law law, I don't see that happening.
2. God.
God is possible. Revival is possible, but history shows us he does allow for rampant (since we disagree on the word "great" here lol) tribulation for his peeps too.
This isn't about one more immoral thing our country is doing. It's STILL about God's will. I admire Davis for sticking up for what she thinks God wants, but since it does no good, what does it accomplish?
What's worse case?
What is accomplished either way?
IF we get out of this quagmire, it won't be through her. There's only one of two ways we get out of this one:
1. Next Congress abolishes that stupid non-law law. (Court doesn't create law. Legislators do, and yet the Supremes have been given a free pass as lawmakers for most, if not all, of my life now.) Considering we're still waiting around for them to hold their promise about the abortion non-law law, I don't see that happening.
2. God.
God is possible. Revival is possible, but history shows us he does allow for rampant (since we disagree on the word "great" here lol) tribulation for his peeps too.
This isn't about one more immoral thing our country is doing. It's STILL about God's will. I admire Davis for sticking up for what she thinks God wants, but since it does no good, what does it accomplish?
SCOTUS has ruled. It won't be overturned in our lifetime.
Kim Davis has two choices. Quit a job (unless the county offers her a retirement settlement) that she has held for 27 years and compromise her faith, or accept the fines and jail time that goes with the contempt of court charges that she will face.
My friends, if the Lord tarries in taking His saints home, everyone of us will face the same choices in the next few years.
Kim Davis has two choices. Quit a job (unless the county offers her a retirement settlement) that she has held for 27 years and compromise her faith, or accept the fines and jail time that goes with the contempt of court charges that she will face.
My friends, if the Lord tarries in taking His saints home, everyone of us will face the same choices in the next few years.
A
I disagree. She is being persecuted by her government for refusing to facilitate and propagate immorality. It doesn't matter if she's a government worker or a private contractor for the purpose of this discussion because nobody should be forced to facilitate and propagate immorality by a government or employer much less persecuted for not doing so.
I've said it before Nautilus, you would have made an outstanding communist in the 20th century. You have their faulty way of reasoning. Of course, you would have ended up in the camps yourself in the end if continued asserting identification with Christ though they always took your kind (e.g. willful collaborators) last.
I've said it before Nautilus, you would have made an outstanding communist in the 20th century. You have their faulty way of reasoning. Of course, you would have ended up in the camps yourself in the end if continued asserting identification with Christ though they always took your kind (e.g. willful collaborators) last.
...and undone by the supremes...
Matthew 19:4-6 (KJV)
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
...but God WILL have the Last Word
Matthew 19:4-6 (KJV)
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
...but God WILL have the Last Word
AN UPDATE:
Mathew Staver, Founder and Chairman
Liberty Counsel
There is a national media frenzy surrounding Rowan County, Kentucky, Clerk Kim Davis, a principled public servant who is standing against judicial tyranny and for natural marriage. Kim is now being called a "national symbol" and "a women of exemplary courage" by those who support her stand for First Amendment religious liberty and right of conscience.
Conversely, Kim is being demonized by the homosexual movement and those who oppose her resolve to put "God's authority" above man's laws. Some are calling for her resignation or removal from office. She has received several death threats. Certain unprincipled media outlets have leveled vicious personal attacks against Kim for her lifestyle before coming to Christ four years ago.
And tomorrow, Kim is summoned back to court...
+ + U.S. District Judge David Bunning has called a hearing for Davis at 11 a.m. tomorrow.
Attorneys representing homosexual couples being denied "marriage" licenses petitioned a federal judge to find Davis in contempt of court and to "impose financial penalties sufficiently serious and increasingly onerous." The ACLU is deeply involved in this case.
That hearing is Thursday morning. That's why I am asking for prayer for Kim. She will be facing tremendous pressure and potentially life-changing circumstances.
+ + Many public officials are now in the crosshairs of the homosexual "marriage" movement following the Supreme Court's Obergefell decision.
There are growing numbers of dedicated public servants who are being aggressively targeted by pro-left organizations and are being told to abandon their deeply held religious beliefs or resign. This is precisely what Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas predicted in his dissenting opinion in the Obergefell case...
Throughout American history, the courts have accommodated people's deeply held religious beliefs. If Davis' religious objection is denied, then elected officials have no real religious freedom when they take public office. Religious liberty is neither surrendered at the entry door of public service nor waived upon taking an oath of office. To suggest otherwise creates a religious (or in this case, anti-religious) test for holding office — which the United States and Kentucky Constitutions expressly forbid!
+ + If you believe in moral governance, we want to hear from you!
-LIBERTY COUNCIL
Mathew Staver, Founder and Chairman
Liberty Counsel
A federal judge has called for a hearing for Kim Davis tomorrow morning. She is under intense pressure. Once again, I am asking every friend of Liberty Counsel to pray for Kim as she stands her ground for truth by declaring that God's laws are above man's laws. Please see my important update below — Mat.
There is a national media frenzy surrounding Rowan County, Kentucky, Clerk Kim Davis, a principled public servant who is standing against judicial tyranny and for natural marriage. Kim is now being called a "national symbol" and "a women of exemplary courage" by those who support her stand for First Amendment religious liberty and right of conscience.
Yesterday, Liberty Counsel did about 30 media interviews and 10 TV uplinks on every network and major cable news outlet about our case representing Kim Davis. The story hit number 1 on Drudge and Google News. It is being debated on Facebook and presidential candidates are being asked their opinion. Our "Push For Liberty" national media campaign also received a tremendous uplift as Kim's story gained in national coverage.
Conversely, Kim is being demonized by the homosexual movement and those who oppose her resolve to put "God's authority" above man's laws. Some are calling for her resignation or removal from office. She has received several death threats. Certain unprincipled media outlets have leveled vicious personal attacks against Kim for her lifestyle before coming to Christ four years ago.
And tomorrow, Kim is summoned back to court...
+ + U.S. District Judge David Bunning has called a hearing for Davis at 11 a.m. tomorrow.
Attorneys representing homosexual couples being denied "marriage" licenses petitioned a federal judge to find Davis in contempt of court and to "impose financial penalties sufficiently serious and increasingly onerous." The ACLU is deeply involved in this case.
That hearing is Thursday morning. That's why I am asking for prayer for Kim. She will be facing tremendous pressure and potentially life-changing circumstances.
+ + Many public officials are now in the crosshairs of the homosexual "marriage" movement following the Supreme Court's Obergefell decision.
There are growing numbers of dedicated public servants who are being aggressively targeted by pro-left organizations and are being told to abandon their deeply held religious beliefs or resign. This is precisely what Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas predicted in his dissenting opinion in the Obergefell case...
"Aside from undermining the political processes that protect our liberty, the majority's decision threatens the religious liberty our Nation has long sought to protect... In our society, marriage is not simply a governmental institution; it is a religious institution as well. Today's decision might change the former, but it cannot change the latter. It appears all but inevitable that the two will come into conflict, particularly as individuals and churches are confronted with demands to participate in and endorse civil marriages between same-sex couples."
Throughout American history, the courts have accommodated people's deeply held religious beliefs. If Davis' religious objection is denied, then elected officials have no real religious freedom when they take public office. Religious liberty is neither surrendered at the entry door of public service nor waived upon taking an oath of office. To suggest otherwise creates a religious (or in this case, anti-religious) test for holding office — which the United States and Kentucky Constitutions expressly forbid!
+ + If you believe in moral governance, we want to hear from you!
-LIBERTY COUNCIL
