Want to beat the coronavirus? Reopen America now

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EleventhHour

Guest
#41
#41
PennEd said:
This is classic reinterpretation and adding to the point the op was making.

A tactic usually employed by leftists.
To say that if you dare question the draconian measures, that would have made the stasi, Maduro, and Tito blush, you are somehow lacking in empathy and compassion for your fellow man, is patently unfair.

Every death is tragic no matter what the cause. Yes we can limit all sorts of deaths by permanently living in little bubbles, isolated from the rest of humanity.

No one is against reasonable measures. NJ is reporting that up to 1/4 of the population (2 million) now have this virus. It’s out there now. There is no more viable reason to keep society closed. We should have listened to Trump and conservatives long ago and stringently sealed our borders.
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That is for sure quarantine and lock down should have happened a long time ago.

The time for reasonable measures has long passed.
The USA is in a place now where there is no easy solution in terms of public policy and how to manage the economy and mitigate loss of life.

It is quite tragic really.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#42
#42
PennEd said:
This is classic reinterpretation and adding to the point the op was making.

A tactic usually employed by leftists.
To say that if you dare question the draconian measures, that would have made the stasi, Maduro, and Tito blush, you are somehow lacking in empathy and compassion for your fellow man, is patently unfair.

Every death is tragic no matter what the cause. Yes we can limit all sorts of deaths by permanently living in little bubbles, isolated from the rest of humanity.

No one is against reasonable measures. NJ is reporting that up to 1/4 of the population (2 million) now have this virus. It’s out there now. There is no more viable reason to keep society closed. We should have listened to Trump and conservatives long ago and stringently sealed our borders.
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Draconian measures would have never been needed....the USA was woefully unprepared.

The writer of the article is just as disingenuous with the facts as any good leftist.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#43
Apr 7, 2014
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#43
I was reading in USNEWS - Why the Flu Is Still a Bigger Threat to Americans Than Coronavirus
While concerns about the coronavirus are growing, experts warn people not to forget a deadlier virus: the flu.

More than 8,000 people in the U.S. have died from the flu this season, which peaks between December and February, according to CDC estimates.

During the 2018-2019 season, the CDC estimates 16.5 million people went to a health care provider for the flu and more than 34,000 people died in the U.S. The prior season saw 61,000 deaths.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...is-a-bigger-threat-to-the-us-than-coronavirus
 
Ruby123

Ruby123

Well-known member
#44
Mar 1, 2019
11,912
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#44
mailmandan said:
So what is the real agenda behind the Coronavirus crisis and the government acting in extreme measures? :unsure:
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In the words of the famous Swedish group Abba:

Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#45
Sep 17, 2016
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#45
EleventhHour said:
Yes viruses have caused death for a long time.

Again the point it very simple the health care system is not fitted for an epidemic... there are no extra ICU beds, no extra ventilators,
No extra doctors and nurses.

In italy five doctors have died and because they did not have enough doctors third year medical students were used to treat the patients.

Even if they build make shift hospitals in New York as their numbers start to sky rocket they still need front line workers, supplies,.medication ...etc etc.,

And if they do not quarantine you tell me how they deal with the every increasing numbers.

And let us not forget the first person who died of this in China was a young male who had no underlying health problems.
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Sounds like life. We live and learn. But unfortunately if we did more of studying the past, we would be better prepared for future events. Life sometimes is devastating. Pandemics in the past have wiped out 20 to 30% of the world populations. Our governments should learn and be better prepared for future events.

Fear has caused a lot of this mess. Fear drives people to seek medical attention for symptoms. Fear forces jobs to also force employees to get checked. All this floods the system. Fear has caused the hoarding of medical supplies that could be used to help medical staff and that could save their lives as well. This is why Biblically we are not called to be fearful. Aware? Yes of course. But fear has caused much of this damage.

Where was all the fear in past epidemics? Even past Corona viruses?
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#46
Sep 17, 2016
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#46
mailmandan said:
So what is the real agenda behind the Coronavirus crisis and the government acting in extreme measures? :unsure:
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I have no clue. Of course you have your conspiracies but not enough evidence to support them. I would like to think there isnt a evil agenda on this global scale and this is truly a mess due to media fear mongering. Of course I would of never imagined the coup and how deep that went against trying to remove Trump from office.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#47
#47
Roughsoul1991 said:
Sounds like life. We live and learn. But unfortunately if we did more of studying the past, we would be better prepared for future events. Life sometimes is devastating. Pandemics in the past have wiped out 20 to 30% of the world populations. Our governments should learn and be better prepared for future events.

Fear has caused a lot of this mess. Fear drives people to seek medical attention for symptoms. Fear forces jobs to also force employees to get checked. All this floods the system. Fear has caused the hoarding of medical supplies that could be used to help medical staff and that could save their lives as well. This is why Biblically we are not called to be fearful. Aware? Yes of course. But fear has caused much of this damage.

Where was all the fear in past epidemics? Even past Corona viruses?
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Some people filled with fear others could care less. ...strange times.

Toronto dealt with a very serious SARS outbreak in 2004.... there was plenty of fear and it is a big city and it suffered tremendously....but a very different virus.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#48
Sep 17, 2016
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#48
EleventhHour said:
Some people filled with fear others could care less. ...strange times.

Toronto dealt with a very serious SARS outbreak in 2004.... there was plenty of fear and it is a big city and it suffered tremendously....but a very different virus.
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Well the couldn't care less crowd is either ignorant or so self absorbed they dont care for others.

Even with SARS I dont remember this kind of reaction.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#49
Apr 7, 2014
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#49
Roughsoul1991 said:
I have no clue. Of course you have your conspiracies but not enough evidence to support them. I would like to think there isnt a evil agenda on this global scale and this is truly a mess due to media fear mongering. Of course I would of never imagined the coup and how deep that went against trying to remove Trump from office.
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Media fear mongering has certainly made the situation worse! I've heard every kind of conspiracy theory behind the coronavirus crisis from Trump is using it to control immigration to the Democrats are using it to ruin Trump's chances at getting re-elected. I would not be surprised if there was some type of agenda behind the coronavirus crisis, but at the same time, I believe that we need to take precautions seriously in regards to prevention in getting the coronavirus.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#50
Apr 22, 2013
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#50
Roughsoul1991 said:
I have no clue. Of course you have your conspiracies but not enough evidence to support them. I would like to think there isnt a evil agenda on this global scale and this is truly a mess due to media fear mongering. Of course I would of never imagined the coup and how deep that went against trying to remove Trump from office.
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Evidence may be mounting. YouTube “Event 21 “ A global exercise. Which they conducted back in October or November.

The Rabbis day there is no such thing as coincidence.
I’m now just waiting for the inevitable massive pushback against this incredible government power grab over Americans.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#51
#51
Roughsoul1991 said:
Well the couldn't care less crowd is either ignorant or so self absorbed they dont care for others.

Even with SARS I dont remember this kind of reaction.
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Agree so self-absorbed!

Not sure where you live but SARS in Toronto had a very negative impact, people were quarantined, the streets in down town were empty, restaurants, small business went under.
Mick Jagger came a did a huge concert to get things moving again once it resolved.

But that virus very different, higher mortality rate but much much lower transmission rate.
So it was much easier to contain it.

H1N1 also caused a pretty big stir but again a very different virus, very low mortality rate.

The main problem with this virus, which makes it so unusual and why it is such a problem is the long incubation period makes it travel very fast.

Once it is over is when the scientist really figure it out. I think China is still not being honest and while they pretend they have beat this virus I highly doubt it.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#53
#53
PennEd said:
Evidence may be mounting. YouTube “Event 21 “ A global exercise. Which they conducted back in October or November.

The Rabbis day there is no such thing as coincidence.
I’m now just waiting for the inevitable massive pushback against this incredible government power grab over Americans.
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Yup no denying that.
No way out, amazing how they planned it out so well.

People do not comply they will track your phone and find you.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#54
Apr 22, 2013
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#54
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EleventhHour

Guest
#55
#55
PennEd said:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us...r-pandemics-johns-hopkins-study-found-in-2019
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There is no doubt that USA has a robust health care system.

Very interesting... thanks for this link, very helpful

https://www.ghsindex.org/

You can have an army of epidemiologist ... however it is important to listen them.

Interesting Spain also shown as very prepared however while certainly better than Italy... they are not doing so well.

Having resources is only one part of the equation.... the USA would be in much worse shape if it did not have the resources that is for sure.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#56
#56
PennEd said:
Sarcasm does not become you sister. More refutation about the US being unprepared https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...resource-availability-during-covid-19-crisis/
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I was not being sarcastic at all... I meant every word... this is the perfect storm

I am not saying the USA was not prepared, I am saying not prepared enough for this type of virus, virus typically do not incubate for 14 days... but people did not know this virus because China is not very forthcoming with data, if Italy had been struck first...USA would have had a much better timeline to mobilize.

There are many, many factors at play here

Sorry I was not clear.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#57
Sep 17, 2016
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#57
mailmandan said:
Media fear mongering has certainly made the situation worse! I've heard every kind of conspiracy theory behind the coronavirus crisis from Trump is using it to control immigration to the Democrats are using it to ruin Trump's chances at getting re-elected. I would not be surprised if there was some type of agenda behind the coronavirus crisis, but at the same time, I believe that we need to take precautions seriously in regards to prevention in getting the coronavirus.
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It is unfortunate we have such a mainstream media bias either to the left or right and in events like these where life is at stake. We have no idea how severe or cautious we need to be. The herd mentality takes over. When I was in NJROTC we had to practice a fire drill with blindfolds. Because in a ship if the power and backup power failed in a explosion or fire then everything goes dark and your only way out is by feeling and memory.

They would tell us where the fire was at but could you believe that in the panic one person went the wrong way towards the fire. Then others by touch followed the same individual without thinking twice. In real life that could of easily been the death of 8 people from the panic of 1. Panic and fear spreads quickly and before you know it, now the room is in chaos. It takes one individual to ear a fire cracked or backfiring of a car to send them running nowadays. Once they run, others run for no reason other than others are running.

Our fight or flight reaction kicks in but unfortunately without the facts staying to fight against a tidal wave will probably end in death. Or to flee from a toxic chemical explosion according to which direction the wind is blowing, could be you fleeing directly into its path.

Improper training and crisis protocols leads to these type of knee jerk reactions. Act off of instinct and emotions. A logical response takes training, and event procedures provides us with a guideline how every situation should be handled on a basic level so that everyone is equipped with the same mindset. A nuclear reactor explosion like Chernobyl calls for a whole different response that the Russians wasn't prepared for. It ended with probably millions of deaths as the radiation clouds blew into Europe.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#58
May 17, 2013
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#58
Pr 21:31 The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#59
Apr 7, 2014
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#59
Our leadership in the U.S. seem to be in a Catch 22. The harder they push for the shutting down of businesses and keeping people at home, the more lives they may save, but at the cost of the US economy, which will also have a ripple effect worldwide. But if they loosen up on the restrictions in order to help save the economy, then they risk the virus spreading more and becoming an even greater risk to our citizens. Slamming the brakes on our economy will cause devastating pain on many people with lost jobs, lost wages, lost pensions and even bankruptcy. Regardless of what decisions are made, the fingers will still get pointed at our leadership for not making the right choices at the right time.
 
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