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It is sad, but this believe could be dangerous in some hands 
I had once a debate on this with catholic priest. I always thought that idea of never loosing salvations is strictly calvinistic and RCC is in opposite of this scale. But actually, he told me, that RCC believe that excommunication is not total expulsion from the church (body of Christ), because you entered into church thru the baptism and it is irrevocable, you cannot deny that -and only heretics deny that. So even if they (Hitler and company) would be excommunicated, they will be still RCC sheep’s (and so Christians …for some of people). So you are excommunicated IN church (not out), excommunication just indicates the "corrective" punishment. It consists mainly of a prohibition to receive and administer the sacraments. Therefor it is not logical for RCC excommunicate someone posthumous because deceased cannot ‘correct” their sins, and one way or another they are still remains in body of Christ, if they were baptized (in RCC).
When I argued, that with this attitude is RCC indirectly supports nationalist or that it seems to be that rcc is indifferent, he just told me, that no, that catholics are smart enough to understand.
Well, apparently they are not. I never see that much of antisemitism’s and nationalism as we have here in rcc. Just a few years, and it will be here again (hatred for the jews)
So Rcc and reformed and Calvinist are not that far away from each other, in the end. Semel pro semper, Roma locuta, causa finita...
I had once a debate on this with catholic priest. I always thought that idea of never loosing salvations is strictly calvinistic and RCC is in opposite of this scale. But actually, he told me, that RCC believe that excommunication is not total expulsion from the church (body of Christ), because you entered into church thru the baptism and it is irrevocable, you cannot deny that -and only heretics deny that. So even if they (Hitler and company) would be excommunicated, they will be still RCC sheep’s (and so Christians …for some of people). So you are excommunicated IN church (not out), excommunication just indicates the "corrective" punishment. It consists mainly of a prohibition to receive and administer the sacraments. Therefor it is not logical for RCC excommunicate someone posthumous because deceased cannot ‘correct” their sins, and one way or another they are still remains in body of Christ, if they were baptized (in RCC).
When I argued, that with this attitude is RCC indirectly supports nationalist or that it seems to be that rcc is indifferent, he just told me, that no, that catholics are smart enough to understand.
Well, apparently they are not. I never see that much of antisemitism’s and nationalism as we have here in rcc. Just a few years, and it will be here again (hatred for the jews)
So Rcc and reformed and Calvinist are not that far away from each other, in the end. Semel pro semper, Roma locuta, causa finita...
T
Was Hitler a christian?
He was a catholic...
He was a catholic...
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
Christian = One who believes that Jesus Christ is God
Catholicism = a branch of Christianity which professes faith in Christ as God
Catholic = Christian
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Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
Well, and if you not interesting than favete linguis, brother..
[FONT="]I think it helps to have an overview what and why believe different denominations (not that you don’t know, being catholic yourself once… or wait you still are.. you cant escape, lol
)[/FONT]
M
Heh, but you know, that I was simply explaining (and criticizing) fundamental beliefs from rcc perspective… not my opinions, I’m not from rcc, but I happened to be from country with really strong catholicism ..
Well, and if you not interesting than favete linguis, brother..
I think it helps to have an overview what and why believe different denominations (not that you don’t know, being catholic yourself once… or wait you still are.. you cant escape, lol )
Well, and if you not interesting than favete linguis, brother..
I think it helps to have an overview what and why believe different denominations (not that you don’t know, being catholic yourself once… or wait you still are.. you cant escape, lol
)
I find you calling me a catholic offensive btw, I'm a born again Christian, thank you very much.
No, no, that was not what I meant, and I’m sorry, I didn’t want to offend you, I am really sorry, and of course I believe that you are born again Christian. (but I think that it is possible to be born again Christian and same time catholic, because nothing is impossible for God)
My father was as little boy baptized in RCC .. unawares .. (his grandpa was catholic, so he arranged it behind the back of my father’s parents who were Calvinists) and when my father tried and wanted to officially get out from RCC as an adult, it was so complicated and difficult, that he practically couldn’t do that. So officially he is still member of RCC even if he do not share at all RCC beliefs and attends Baptists now. It just doesn’t matter to RCC.
That was what I meant by .. “you cant escape RCC”. Or you have no problem with nullification of membership in RCC? Just curious. But if it is unpleasant and painful matter for you to discuss just ignore this, it will be ok with me… anyway, be blessed, brother, and again I'm sorry and I am rather on my way out of here...
My father was as little boy baptized in RCC .. unawares .. (his grandpa was catholic, so he arranged it behind the back of my father’s parents who were Calvinists) and when my father tried and wanted to officially get out from RCC as an adult, it was so complicated and difficult, that he practically couldn’t do that. So officially he is still member of RCC even if he do not share at all RCC beliefs and attends Baptists now. It just doesn’t matter to RCC.
That was what I meant by .. “you cant escape RCC”. Or you have no problem with nullification of membership in RCC? Just curious. But if it is unpleasant and painful matter for you to discuss just ignore this, it will be ok with me… anyway, be blessed, brother, and again I'm sorry and I am rather on my way out of here...
M
No problem, apologies accepted.
You're using faulty logic there btw:
just because "nothing is impossible for God" does it mean He wants ANYTHING to be possible.
A catholic cannot be a born again christian, because the RCC teaches unchristian doctrine. I never CHOSE to be a catholic in the first place, so I don't care if THEY still consider me a member or not. It's of no meaning to me at all.
You're using faulty logic there btw:
just because "nothing is impossible for God" does it mean He wants ANYTHING to be possible.
A catholic cannot be a born again christian, because the RCC teaches unchristian doctrine. I never CHOSE to be a catholic in the first place, so I don't care if THEY still consider me a member or not. It's of no meaning to me at all.
I believe Hitler is only a puppet, the Boss is Vatican. In this article below, one of the Vatican representative, convicted for his involvement of the Killing.
Only need a second to Google then we will find a lot of evident. If you have a time tray Google holocaust victim sue Vatican in San fransisco Court for almost 10 Years and prof that Vatican rob holocaust victim gold. Why the gold goes to vatican, why not goes to Hitler?
In my opinion, because Hitler is just a puppet.
Also you should Google Pope John Paul II apologies for the holocaust victim. Why apologies for Hitler or for Vatican.
and thousand more clue, but because Vatican is rich institution, people tend to close his eyes. People tend to respect the rich.
But Jesus only respect the righteous whether it's rich or poor.
[SIZE=+3]The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust
[/SIZE][SIZE=+3]Seán Mac Mathúna[/SIZE][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 18%, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]VATICAN BANK CLAIMS:
Restitution & justice for concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relativesWhat are the charges against Archbishop Stepinac?
A vow of silence: Did gold stolen by Croatian fascists reach the Vatican?
What Is The Vatican Hiding? The Vatican's Complicity in Genocide in Fascist Croatia: The Suppressed Chapter of Holocaust History. by Barry Lituchy
The Real Genocide in Yugoslavia: "Independent" Croatia of 1941 Revisited by Srdja Trifkovic
Working for the Nazis: The Mufti of Jerusalem
[h=4]Federal Republic of Yugoslavia[/h][h=4]Government of the Republic of Croatia[/h][h=4]Republic of Slovenia[/h][h=4]Government of the Republic of Macedonia[/h]Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina - Administration[/TD]
[TD="width: 100%"]
During the Second World War in Yugoslavia, Catholic priests and Muslim clerics were willing accomplices in the genocide of the nations Serbian, Jewish and Roma population. From 1941 until 1945, the Nazi-installed regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust (known as the Porajmos by the Roma), killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens - 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, the Croatian Ustasha and Muslim fundamentalists were openly supported by the Vatican, the Archbishop of Zagreb Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac (1898-1960), and the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. Many of the victims of the Pavelic regime in Croatia were killed in the war's third largest death camp - Jasenovac, where over 200,000 people - mainly Orthodox Serbs met their deaths. Some 240,000 were "rebaptized" into the Catholic faith by fundamentalist Clerics in "the Catholic Kingdom of Croatia" as part of the policy to "kill a third, deport a third, convert a third" of Yugoslavia's Serbs, Jews and Roma in wartime Bosnia and Croatia (The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Vladimar Dedijer, Anriman-Verlag, Freiburg, Germany, 1988).
On April 6th 1941, Nazi Germany invaded Yugoslavia. By April 10th, Croatian fascists led by Ante Pavelic were allowed by Hitler and his ally Mussolini to set up a "independent" puppet state of Croatia. Hitler granted "Aryan" status to Croatia as his fascist allies carved up Yugoslavia. Pavelic had been awaiting these developments whilst under the auspices of Mussolini in Italy who had granted them the use of remote training camps on a Aeolian island and access to a propaganda station Radio Bari for broadcasts across the Adriatic. As soon as the new fascist state of Croatia was born, and campaign of cold-blooded terror began, as noted by John Cornwell in his book Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII (Viking, London, UK, 1999):
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Only need a second to Google then we will find a lot of evident. If you have a time tray Google holocaust victim sue Vatican in San fransisco Court for almost 10 Years and prof that Vatican rob holocaust victim gold. Why the gold goes to vatican, why not goes to Hitler?
In my opinion, because Hitler is just a puppet.
Also you should Google Pope John Paul II apologies for the holocaust victim. Why apologies for Hitler or for Vatican.
and thousand more clue, but because Vatican is rich institution, people tend to close his eyes. People tend to respect the rich.
But Jesus only respect the righteous whether it's rich or poor.
[SIZE=+3]The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust
[/SIZE][SIZE=+3]Seán Mac Mathúna[/SIZE][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 18%, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]VATICAN BANK CLAIMS:
Restitution & justice for concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relativesWhat are the charges against Archbishop Stepinac?
A vow of silence: Did gold stolen by Croatian fascists reach the Vatican?
What Is The Vatican Hiding? The Vatican's Complicity in Genocide in Fascist Croatia: The Suppressed Chapter of Holocaust History. by Barry Lituchy
The Real Genocide in Yugoslavia: "Independent" Croatia of 1941 Revisited by Srdja Trifkovic
Working for the Nazis: The Mufti of Jerusalem
[h=4]Federal Republic of Yugoslavia[/h][h=4]Government of the Republic of Croatia[/h][h=4]Republic of Slovenia[/h][h=4]Government of the Republic of Macedonia[/h]Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina - Administration[/TD]
[TD="width: 100%"]
[h=4]The Nazi collaborator Archbishop Stepinac (right) and the Vatican representative to fascist Croatia, Abbot Marcone (left). Croatia has recently renamed a village in Krajina after Stepinac. Marcone was Pavelic's confessor and Stepinac was convicted of war crimes after the war. Several members of his clergy were involved in the genocide at Jasenovac - notably the Franciscan priest, Pater Miroslav Filipovic, who was one of the commandants of the camp.[/h]
On April 6th 1941, Nazi Germany invaded Yugoslavia. By April 10th, Croatian fascists led by Ante Pavelic were allowed by Hitler and his ally Mussolini to set up a "independent" puppet state of Croatia. Hitler granted "Aryan" status to Croatia as his fascist allies carved up Yugoslavia. Pavelic had been awaiting these developments whilst under the auspices of Mussolini in Italy who had granted them the use of remote training camps on a Aeolian island and access to a propaganda station Radio Bari for broadcasts across the Adriatic. As soon as the new fascist state of Croatia was born, and campaign of cold-blooded terror began, as noted by John Cornwell in his book Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII (Viking, London, UK, 1999):
"(It was) an act of 'ethnic cleansing' before that hideous term came into vogue, it was an attempt to create a 'pure' Catholic Croatia by enforced conversions, deportations, and mass exterminations. So dreadful were the acts of torture and murder that even hardened German troops registered their horror. Even by comparison with the recent bloodshed in Yugoslavia at the time of writing, Pavelic's onslaught against the Orthodox Serbs remains one of the most appalling civilian massacres known to history" (p 249)
[/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]
Extremely Faulty Logic.
1. Stalin WAS an atheist, publicly, on record.
(There is nothing subjective about this.)
2. Hitler WAS NOT a Christian, he merely pretended to be one for a while, until he had power...
this is clear from HIS OWN WORDS, and HIS OWN POLICIES. This is not a guess; his own words verify it.
(Nothing subjective about this either.)
3. If YOU, being an atheist, find it expedient for your own agenda to label Hitler as a Christian, although his own words make it clear he was not... then go for it. While you're at it, you can label me as a martian... it's equally reasonable.
IntoTheVoid...
Whatever point you're trying to make, you need to try again with other examples.
These examples do not serve to make your point.
1. Stalin WAS an atheist, publicly, on record.
(There is nothing subjective about this.)
2. Hitler WAS NOT a Christian, he merely pretended to be one for a while, until he had power...
this is clear from HIS OWN WORDS, and HIS OWN POLICIES. This is not a guess; his own words verify it.
(Nothing subjective about this either.)
3. If YOU, being an atheist, find it expedient for your own agenda to label Hitler as a Christian, although his own words make it clear he was not... then go for it. While you're at it, you can label me as a martian... it's equally reasonable.
IntoTheVoid...
Whatever point you're trying to make, you need to try again with other examples.
These examples do not serve to make your point.
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