The Whole Family is Rotten?

[MissCris]

Something mentioned in another thread (thanks PopClick) about not judging an individual's merits based on the actions of family members made me take a closer (uncomfortable!) look at my own family and their history- things like divorce, bad relationships, that stuff. I know that people learn their behavior largely from family, so I suppose that a person who grows up surrounded by certain behaviors would be more likely to practice those behaviors in their own life, intentionally or not.

And that stinks.

But what stinks worse is when others judge an individual based on what their family has done and predict that the person will go down the same path. Doesn't matter how true it may or may not be; it's negative and makes a person feel like they're just doomed to repeat their family's mistakes.

Anyway, I'm just wondering what you guys think about this- is it fair to assume someone is going to be a screw-up, based solely on what their family has done? Do you think people can avoid that kind of "fate"? Any personal experience with judging someone else or being the one judged for your family's issues?

 

[zeroturbulence]

Ezekiel 18:20 NIV:

The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

 

[Stephen63]

Something mentioned in another thread (thanks PopClick) about not judging an individual's merits based on the actions of family members made me take a closer (uncomfortable!) look at my own family and their history- things like divorce, bad relationships, that stuff. I know that people learn their behavior largely from family, so I suppose that a person who grows up surrounded by certain behaviors would be more likely to practice those behaviors in their own life, intentionally or not.

And that stinks.

But what stinks worse is when others judge an individual based on what their family has done and predict that the person will go down the same path. Doesn't matter how true it may or may not be; it's negative and makes a person feel like they're just doomed to repeat their family's mistakes.

Anyway, I'm just wondering what you guys think about this- is it fair to assume someone is going to be a screw-up, based solely on what their family has done? Do you think people can avoid that kind of "fate"? Any personal experience with judging someone else or being the one judged for your family's issues?

If the answer to that question was yes, I wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in Hades of becoming a christian or being normal. I grew up in a dysfunctional family with a mother that's a narcissist, an older brother who thinks he's all that & fries on the side & another brother who thinks the whole world's against him. Both have been divorced twice, & one has served time in the pen. I grew up in this as a child saying to myself "I'll never be like that". I see now that was God's grace already at work in my life.

However, even though the Lord has done so much for me in changing my life, I still find that I carried some of my environment with me. I myself had many traits of a borderline narcissist, as well as pride issues. I may not be perfect yet, but I'm NOTHING like my family. I'll be married to the same wonderful woman for 30 years in August.

If anyone thinks they're hopeless because of their childhood environment, memorize this scripture:
Romans 5:20-21 (KJV) [SUP]20 [/SUP]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: [SUP]21 [/SUP]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

God always has more grace than we do sin, MissCris.

 

[seoulsearch]

If family history determines who we are and what we will do, we are ALL buried in a huge heap of boloney.

(Taken from another site.)

Consider this collection of unsavory characters:​

Fools. Liars. Charlatans. Fornicators. Murderers.

While most people would try to hide the more embarrassing details of their family history, Jesus displayed them openly. Scripture records that even the most revered members of Christ’s ancestry were guilty of unspeakable crimes: Jacob was a thief, Solomon an idolater, and David a killer. But perhaps the most amazing thing about the genealogy of Christ (Matt. 1) is not the sins of the men who are listed. After all, there are 56 generations of them; one would certainly expect to find a skeleton or two. What is most interesting are the few women that are mentioned – five of them, to be exact:

Tamar, the daughter-in-law of Judah who tricked him into sharing her bed as an act of revenge. ​

Rahab, a formerly idolatrous harlot whose great act of faith was telling a lie.​

Ruth, a foreigner from Moab whose entire race was a lasting reminder of the incest committed between Lot and his oldest daughter.​

Bath-Sheba, an adulteress whose dutiful husband was murdered by the king to cover up their sin.​

Mary, a teen-aged girl whose “unplanned” (yet divinely ordained) pregnancy certainly raised more than a few eyebrows.​

There are 56 generations of men in Jesus’ family tree, yet He chose to highlight a mere handful of women – and they are possibly the most sordid of them all.

It’s as if He wants us to pause as we read the list of names and think about their lives. And when we do, it is impossible to ignore the grace of God.


Jesus is our Ultimate Example. Yes, I know it's a bit different because He is also God. But if God didn't let family history/predispositions/choices interfere with what Jesus could do, neither will He allow those things to stop us from becoming what He's made us to be, either.

It's up to us to make the right decisions and follow through. But does family determine who we are or what we can accomplish (or how we should be judged)? I'm pretty sure God answered that question with a resounding, "NO.".

 

[DuchessAimee]

In some cases, you can absolutely see how a family has corrupted a child(ren) for generations. We see it in the bible (mostly the OT) quite a bit. It's one reason why God told people not to marry into pagan households. I think you'll find that without Jesus people will follow in their family's footsteps, even with Jesus some people will.



There are numerous studies that have been done asking the same question you posed. And their answers vary from family to family, which translates into that life is a craps shoot.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

Statistically speaking, it is harder to "break the cycle" from generation to generation in many areas. Domestic abuse, divorce, infidelity... many of these things are simply learned from older generations. Does that mean the children of these situations are without hope? Of course not. Will it be harder for them to correct those damaging learned behaviors and attitudes? Probably. It's all that they know. It stinks, but it's life... We must all play with the hand we've been given, and GOD knows what hand we've been dealt, and he gives us the strength to overcome those obstacles. We are all works in progress, some with different advantages or disadvantages than others. We ARE expected to (with God's grace) overcome life's chains and be free of them in Christ.

It's worth the fight, and those who do fight will be so much stronger than those who never had to. Know what I mean?

 

[PopClick]

I've met so many people who were saved later in life, out of non-Christian families, or out of impossibly (by the world's standards) mucky situations. Jesus can overcome anything, IF we let Him. If we're striving to grow, and actively trying to deal with whatever garbage-y hand we were dealt, we do not need to be defined by our pasts or our ancestors.

However, if we put things in cruise control and assume that things are too much work to overcome, or that we're doomed already so why bother, or that we're already good enough so we don't need to change... well, in those situations, the easiest thing to do is to repeat the mistakes with which you're most familiar.

 

[secularhermit]

Hello, there!

Yes! I also would like to thank Popclick and my friend Biscuit...

I got another perception, not that of judging the human race (statistically his or her family, and certainly NONE in particular).

I saw it as if he was proud (not bragging) those facts he mentioned about his relatives and grannies.

That's what I had to say.


Excuse me for being in single area.

 

[Ugly]

I do my best to learn who a person is. Not their family, their past. Sure, those things can play a part in who they are now. But that doesn't mean a person is, or will be, defined by either of those things. People who make those sorts of judgments are just arrogant and looking for ways to put others down.

 

[gypsygirl]

this used to be the question that plagued me - can i ever hope to not be judged by my own family? i used to believe that no man who fulfilled my basic "must-haves" would want anything to do with me, if he knew about my family and the family drama.

holidays with a boyfriend, meeting the family, or things that involved me taking that enormous, very uncomfortable risk was met with massive levels of trepidation and anxiety. also, explanations, warnings, caveats, qualifications, and above all, apologizing in advance for what was about to happen. : )

as a result, much of that part of my life was seldom shared at all.

the beauty of growing older is being able to, through time, prove to myself that i am not simply what my family is or does. i'm not just like them. yes, they are a part of me, and we have matching history. but they don't come close to defining me. in fact, my life resembles nothing like what my family has done, in trajectory or choices. and somehow that is satisfying to me.

in fact, often i view my family more like the instructors that schooled me through a college of learning that i no longer attend. i graduated with honors and i never have to go back. just an occasional alumni day is plenty for me. : )

as to others: i simply look at how they live. when i meet someone who has family drama, i can quickly tell if they're still engaged with it or not. if their ideals and goals are similar or different. his current state of living and emotional health is far more relevant to me that what is in the rear-view mirror.

 

[Raine]

I think the answer is yes and no... Depends on what kind of family history and who the person is.

For example, my ex was greatly affected by his family's history emotionally to the point where it affected our relationship and played a huge factor in leading to our break up.

I think the only real way a person can be free from their past and family history (in terms of breaking habits and/or letting go of bitterness etc) is by finding out about Jesus and being adopted by him... Because suddenly they have a new father and role model to look up to... One who can teach them the real ways of perfect love and leading a fulfilling life.

Thankful to have a Heavenly Father.

On the other hand, I do find it unfair to judge a person "solely" on their past and family history... However, it would be unwise to not acknowledge that it may affect who that person is as well. Though I do not always agree with my parents, I do acknowledge their wisdom... And they say it's always important to look at family history. But who comes from perfect families???

My overall family has divorce, homosexuality, gang members, gambling addicts, and so forth. Yet, I think I come from an overall good family lol.

 

[secularhermit]

In case it be needed, here is the "tree" asked...

 

[BananaPie]

Family portrait.

Okay, seriously. Behaviors, family customs and even food habits are handed down from parents to offspring. Even when a parent is missing from the child's life, that also has influence upon the offspring.

What makes the favorable difference in a person's behavior is being in submission to the sovereignty of the Gospel of God as exposed by our Lord Jesus Christ. We are all sinners as were our parents and our ancestors, and that same "sin nature" is passed to our offspring. Only the Holy Spirit of God can "create in me a clean heart" as David asked of God.

Rahab, BTW, is in the genealogy of our Lord Jesus. Rahab was the grandmother of King David's grandfather Obed.

 

[biscuit]

Something mentioned in another thread (thanks PopClick) about not judging an individual's merits based on the actions of family members made me take a closer (uncomfortable!) look at my own family and their history- things like divorce, bad relationships, that stuff. I know that people learn their behavior largely from family, so I suppose that a person who grows up surrounded by certain behaviors would be more likely to practice those behaviors in their own life, intentionally or not.

And that stinks.

But what stinks worse is when others judge an individual based on what their family has done and predict that the person will go down the same path. Doesn't matter how true it may or may not be; it's negative and makes a person feel like they're just doomed to repeat their family's mistakes.

Anyway, I'm just wondering what you guys think about this- is it fair to assume someone is going to be a screw-up, based solely on what their family has done? Do you think people can avoid that kind of "fate"? Any personal experience with judging someone else or being the one judged for your family's issues?[/QUOTE


The family tree can be a valuable tool but it is not & should not be used to condemn all. There is no such thing such as a perfect correlation. If the family is rotten, then the correlation curve would likely to say that there is the probability that there is at least one or two good apples in a rotten barrel. What we can do is fairly judge the red flags when they do pop up. What I do know is the one or two good apples from the rotten barrel, do have an awful time breaking away from the family. I know some good apples that were basically "banned" from the family because they broke away from the rotten barrel.

 

[secularhermit]

Family portrait.

Okay, seriously. Behaviors, family customs and even food habits are handed down from parents to offspring. Even when a parent is missing from the child's life, that also has influence upon the offspring.

What makes the favorable difference in a person's behavior is being in submission to the sovereignty of the Gospel of God as exposed by our Lord Jesus Christ. We are all sinners as were our parents and our ancestors, and that same "sin nature" is passed to our offspring. Only the Holy Spirit of God can "create in me a clean heart" as David asked of God.

Rahab, BTW, is in the genealogy of our Lord Jesus. Rahab was the grandmother of King David's grandfather Obed.

I´d vote for several Rahabs I had in my family tree. I myself played the same game.

 

[TaylorTG]

If family history determines who we are and what we will do, we are ALL buried in a huge heap of boloney.

(Taken from another site.)

Consider this collection of unsavory characters:​

Fools. Liars. Charlatans. Fornicators. Murderers.

While most people would try to hide the more embarrassing details of their family history, Jesus displayed them openly. Scripture records that even the most revered members of Christ’s ancestry were guilty of unspeakable crimes: Jacob was a thief, Solomon an idolater, and David a killer. But perhaps the most amazing thing about the genealogy of Christ (Matt. 1) is not the sins of the men who are listed. After all, there are 56 generations of them; one would certainly expect to find a skeleton or two. What is most interesting are the few women that are mentioned – five of them, to be exact:

Tamar, the daughter-in-law of Judah who tricked him into sharing her bed as an act of revenge.
Rahab, a formerly idolatrous harlot whose great act of faith was telling a lie.
Ruth, a foreigner from Moab whose entire race was a lasting reminder of the incest committed between Lot and his oldest daughter.
Bath-Sheba, an adulteress whose dutiful husband was murdered by the king to cover up their sin.
Mary, a teen-aged girl whose “unplanned” (yet divinely ordained) pregnancy certainly raised more than a few eyebrows.​

There are 56 generations of men in Jesus’ family tree, yet He chose to highlight a mere handful of women – and they are possibly the most sordid of them all.

It’s as if He wants us to pause as we read the list of names and think about their lives. And when we do, it is impossible to ignore the grace of God.


Jesus is our Ultimate Example. Yes, I know it's a bit different because He is also God. But if God didn't let family history/predispositions/choices interfere with what Jesus could do, neither will He allow those things to stop us from becoming what He's made us to be, either.

It's up to us to make the right decisions and follow through. But does family determine who we are or what we can accomplish (or how we should be judged)? I'm pretty sure God answered that question with a resounding, "NO.".

Yes, their standards of morality were far different than ours.


Tamar probably just wanted to keep the bloodline alive, resorting to desperate measures to fulfill her duty.


._.


Rahab's behavior was very savory. Lying to save another person's life is good, you might be doing God a favor, and Rahab certainly did God a favor by not getting Joshua's two spies killed.

Which is more important: Your integrity or a life?



LMAO Ruth was a godly woman. Her fidelity toward her mother made her an ancestor of Christ himself.
(Ruth 4:18 and Matthew 1)




Rahab and Ruth were not sordid! If they were, then they would be an abomination to the Lord, and God would have ordered the Israelites to kill them!

Deuteronomy 18:9-12
When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, don't follow the abominable practices of those nations.
Wanton practices are abominations to the Lord, and because of these abominations, their practitioners are being driven out before you.


Ehh??? Ehh??? Ehh??? God the Father specifically ordered the Israelites to not let the pagans and their practices mix in with them. The fact that God didn't order the Israelites to uphold this command toward Rahab and Ruth suggests that these two were not a danger to the faith of Israel, and if this is the case, then they would be under these bible verses:

(message is arranged into one sentence)

Proverbs 15:3, Chronicles 16:9, and Matthew 12:35-36
The eyes of God are in every nook and canary, watching both the good and the evil; encouraging the humble of heart, while bringing disgrace upon the hardened hearts.



A human being's character is usually revealed by how he or she ends. The fact that Ruth and Rehab's stories ended in peaceful manners indicates their godliness, despite their former lives as pagans.

(We can assume that Rehab was smart enough to convert!!!)





You're saying that Bathsheba is sordid! Nice victim blaming there, Seoulsearch!!! She didn't ask the Great King to get her husband killed!!! The biblical account of her story hints that she was grieving over Uriah's death, and David took advance of this to approach her.



-_-



You dare call Mary a sordid person???? As you pointed out, she became pregnant as a teenager, yet see how dutifully she accepted God's plan!!!


“Behold the handmaid of the Lord, let it done to me according to your word."



I can't defend Tamar, but don't talk smack about the others, especially when three of them are role models of faith!!!!!



[HR][/HR]As for the fundamental message of your post, I agree 100%! The greatest treasures can be found in even the most corrupt families! Most of the examples you put forward are just bad, really really bad!!!!!

 

[seoulsearch]

Thanks for the in-depth analysis and critique, Taylor, not to mention the personal jabs. I do realize though, that this tends to be the nature of your posts throughout the forum and will answer accordingly.

As stated, the entire post, except for my beginning and ending commentary, were taken from another website from an article about the interesting (and colorful) history of the Jesus' lineage, so keep in mind that this article was written by another author, and not myself.

So no, I'm not shamelessly blaming any victims nor am I calling anyone sordid. The summaries of each person named was the conclusion of the author of the article.

I do ask though, that a person would thoroughly read what I wrote (such as, THE FOLLOWING WAS TAKEN FROM ANOTHER WEBSITE--I did not write it) before drawing back the flaming arrows and firing. Thank you.

 

[seoulsearch]

Taylor:

Here's the link, in case you're interested.

The Scandalous Lineage of the Son of God | Crippled Steps



I'm not sure, but you may be able to post your critique for the author on this site or at least contact them via email with your analysis.

I'd be interested in hearing what the author has to say in reply if you get one--keep us posted, please.

 

[wisebeardman]

Honestly. its much more then just family that makes someone who they are..

 

[TaylorTG]

As stated, the entire post, except for my beginning and ending commentary, were taken from another website from an article about the interesting (and colorful) history of the Jesus' lineage, so keep in mind that this article was written by another author, and not myself.

So no, I'm not shamelessly blaming any victims nor am I calling anyone sordid. The summaries of each person named was the conclusion of the author of the article.

I do ask though, that a person would thoroughly read what I wrote (such as, THE FOLLOWING WAS TAKEN FROM ANOTHER WEBSITE--I did not write it) before drawing back the flaming arrows and firing. Thank you.

Taylor: Here's the link, in case you're interested.

The Scandalous Lineage of the Son of God | Crippled Steps

Since you posted a part of that article, using it as a basis for your answer, I figured that you agreed with that part of the article. Hence why I decided to reply directly to you, rather than to the author who will probably not come across my post.

Thanks for the link mam.