Culture Changes & the Church

[MissCris]

Good point, Ugly. I don't mean to play devil's advocate here or ask useless questions, but do we really know what they covered up in the garden? For all we know, they only covered their lower regions (as that seems to be a universally covered area, no matter where you go) and over time, the top covering for the female was added. Who knows, and because no one knows, I suppose it's a pointless thing to ask, but like I said...I'm a curious person.

It's only pointless to ask stuff like this in the Bible forum. But here...ask away

 

[Ugly]

Good point, Ugly. I don't mean to play devil's advocate here or ask useless questions, but do we really know what they covered up in the garden? For all we know, they only covered their lower regions (as that seems to be a universally covered area, no matter where you go) and over time, the top covering for the female was added. Who knows, and because no one knows, I suppose it's a pointless thing to ask, but like I said...I'm a curious person.

Maybe we don't know, but wouldn't you rather err on the side of caution? If i'm going to take a stance here, i'm going to take the stance that nudity is nudity. Top and bottom, and that is what they felt ashamed over. Besides, going back to the farthest Jewish culture we know of, they kept the women covered top and bottom both. And i say Jewish because that far back the only other option was pagan. So it doesn't seem to have taken all that much time for people who followed God to feel a need to cover more than the lower parts.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

Adam and Eve are probably the only people on earth whose dress and thoughts weren't influenced by their surrounding culture.

As it is, modesty is obviously (or, should be) more of a heart-matter and less of a legalistic matter. I think that's what makes it so complicated.

 

[AsifinPassing]

Threads on modesty have really made me start thinking on how our culture changes over the years, and how we as Christians should deal with it. A hundred years ago, it was considered scandalous for women to wear pants at all. Obviously now most people think nothing of it. Clothing changes, the definition of what is modest changes. Even our language... words that were taboo when I was a kid are now seemingly no big deal even for the most devout. Obviously we have to change along with the culture, but knowing how much or how quickly can be tricky.

Thoughts?

Change exists as one of the few constants in life. That which refuses to do so often becomes extinct.

 

[Jullianna]

I think we should draw the line at hugely pregnant 15 year olds wearing tube tops that expose their "baby bump" and use the term "baby daddy".

This is as close as I could find to a standing ovation

[video=youtube;barWV7RWkq0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=barWV7RWkq0[/video]

 

[Jullianna]

In most areas of the US, by law there are three spots on the female body that are to be covered and one on the male body, whether you are a Christian or not. Seems like a good place to start.

 

[Hellooo]

When I was a kid, my late grandmother caused me to nearly die of embarrassment on a beach trip...we had to explain to her that no, women don't go topless at the beach in the US... and she WAS a modest woman.

 

[LT]

Sometimes I wonder how much I would change if I moved to different countries, something which I've already done since I was born in Mexico...but at least clothing-wise there was no much difference. But let's say I moved to a place where all women wear head coverings. I wouldn't want to be the one to cause someone to stumble or be the cause of criticism of the church. I would wear a head covering if it was necessary.

I think that we can (and should,imo) adapt to the culture around us as much as it is allowable under Christian standards, because being completely and purposelly different just for the sake of being different, will make us unreachable to others. As long as we are not disobedient to God or become a stumbling block to someone else, we have liberty to adapt to different cultures. I think this is what Paul meant in ''to the Jews I became like a Jew''. I also wanna add that it doesn't mean that you have to forget who you are or your roots, just an open mind to compromise when possible. That's my two cents.

I think this is a great attitude to have, kayem. Well said!

Our Christian principles should revolve around 2 things:
1. our own conscience. (Romans 14:14)
2. the consciences of those around us. (Romans 14:15) (1 Corinth 10:30-33)
(notice that neither one of these are laws, because as believers we are not bound by the Mosaic Law)

If our dress, words, or actions are causing others to judge us, then we are making them stumble.
In the same way, dressing without modesty can cause some people who have a problem with lust(men) to also stumble.

Also, if you find yourself judging others for an action(secretly or publicly), you must hold yourself to that standard perfectly! If you ever judge others for being immodest, then you must have perfect modesty, or you are sinning against your own conscience, and against anyone who you have judged.

Scripture gives a great outline for how our conscience should be responding. Thank you kayem for a great post!

 

[kayem77]

I totally agree with your whole post, kayem77, but this part made me wonder: What if the clothing was different culture wise somewhere, but in a lesser? For example, in some places in Africa, women walk around topless and it's no big deal because breasts aren't as sexualized there as they are here. I don't think it's sinful that they do that, either. What then? Just wondering out loud. I'm not talking about wearing less clothing in other cultures just because that's the "norm", because in America, that IS the norm but it's in a trying-to-be-sexy-to-people-besides-their-spouse way and that IS sinful.

I don't know if any of that made sense. Basically, what if the culture requires clothing (or lack thereof) that makes you feel less modest and uncomfortable? Do you (general you) conform, or just stick to most of your own rules of modesty?

I've not done research on this at all, so perhaps for foreigners to do that among tribes is considered offensive and they'd rather you just keep your clothes on, but it just makes me curious.

GLR, I do have an answer to your original question, that will come later. Hope I'm not derailing.

Good questions Rachel! I was actually thinking those same questions yesterday after I typed my post. I'm very curious too. I would say that I would dress just the way I dress all the time. I would be violating my conscience and hence, sinning, as some others pointed out, if I wore less clothes than I normally do. And I also think that from reading the Bible, you would get the idea of covering certain areas that are known to cause lust (I'm kind of guessing here though, because I have never known other standards than the ones I've been raised with ).

Sometimes I wonder what tribe members consider immodest or if they consider anything immodest at all. But then again....they don't have any Christian influence around them to discern.
I've heard of many missionaries that have gone to certain places where people were barely covered, and it seems they didn't face any problems for being more covered than them. But good questions. My approach would be ''stick to what you know is modest''. I think there are also hygienic reasons for dressing up....I personally wouldn't sit on a chair where a naked man was sitting 5 minutes ago .