Divorce...

[JohnDB]

I understand that, but how do you consider that to be polygamy when the original husband was dead?

It's not polyandry...it's polygamy. One husband;many wives. Not one wife shared by many husbands.

 

[Gojira]

I'm just starting to go through this thread, so I don't know what others here have said yet.

You asked if God likes these marriages that you described, and I think that the obvious answer is no. However, this doesn't mean that the solution is necessarily divorce. What about repentance? In the cases that you mentioned, have either of the wronged parties, who are probably guilty of some wrongs themselves, followed the Biblical pattern for possible reconciliation? In other words, have they gone to their spouses first, then brought in two or three other witnesses, and ultimately taken the matter before the church if the first two attempts for reconciliation have failed? Or, will they simply turn to the secular courts for a way out of a presently bad situation?

I do not see that happening, knowing what I know about the offending individuals. They are not repentant and even remotely willing to take correction from the church, or acknowledge even a splinter in their own eye. I question their salvation, to be honest.

 

[Runningman]

The guidelines for divorce are laid out In Deuteronomy 24:1-4 Jesus never changed those guidelines.
People get hung up on Jesus’s words in the gospels because they don’t understand the context. Pharisee types were manipulating the law, they were sending out their wives without the proper divorce certificate for everything under the sun. They did this for many reasons. One main reason was to avoid paying the ketubah (sort of like alimony) which was only payable to the wife if she held the keriythuth (divorce certificate) A form of this is still practiced today by some Jewish folks.

So essentially Jesus was saying, the only time you should send her away without the divorce cert is in the case of “sexual infidelity”.

There’s a lot more to it of course but this should help those seeking truth on the topic get started. Just be careful, some english translators got a little divorce happy, they seemingly put the word divorce in everyplace they could.
Should really have a concordance for an in depth study, some free ones on the App Store.

Thanks. That’s an interesting lead on a perspective I hadn’t thought of before.

 

[Runningman]

kinda strikes me as odd that Paul said it’s better to not get married, but then if you get married it’s better to not get divorced. Paul just said it’s better to not get married, then you get married and suddenly it’s better to be married?

 

[NOV25]

Thanks. That’s an interesting lead on a perspective I hadn’t thought of before.

Yep, heard it from a messianic Jewish fella on YouTube. Since then I have a couple hundred hours in the study, it checks out 😂

If you're interested in this sort of thing google the Jewish word agunah: the chained woman, and follow that rabbit trail. Pretty sad this still happens today, especially considering the fact that this is exactly what Jesus was addressing.

 

[mustaphadrink]

God didn't create us to be abused by our spouse.

God may hate divorce but I'm sure he hates to see a wife beaten to death by her husband.

Divorce can save a life. And God forgives. Since we're not Jews the rules regarding divorce don't apply.

Divorce can save a life. Because love isn't wrapped in terrorism.

But what do the scriptures say? You haven't mentioned one. I find that it is safer to discern what the scripture says rather than what I think.

 

[Papermonkey]

But what do the scriptures say? You haven't mentioned one. I find that it is safer to discern what the scripture says rather than what I think.

Post the scripture where Jesus approves spousal abuse.

 

[Cameron143]

Post the scripture where Jesus approves spousal abuse.

He doesn't approve of it. There is just no scriptural basis for divorce because of abuse.
This doesn't mean women and children should not seek safety. It just means the scripture doesn't allow for divorce on grounds of abuse.

 

[Papermonkey]

He doesn't approve of it. There is just no scriptural basis for divorce because of abuse.
This doesn't mean women and children should not seek safety. It just means the scripture doesn't allow for divorce on grounds of abuse.

That's legalism.

If God joins couples together and he doesn't approve domestic violence then it may be inferred such a marriage was not a union made by God. And therefore,divorce is proper because God would not join a woman with an unbeliever.
Rather, that union is of God's enemy.

Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers.

I don't think a woman should only have known marriage is as an abusive relationship.

And if she lives to divorce should not have to remain yoked to her abuser even in spirit.

God forgives.

 

[Cameron143]

That's legalism.

If God joins couples together and he doesn't approve domestic violence the it may be inferred such a marriage was not a union made by God. And therefore,divorce is proper because God would not join a woman with an unbeliever.
Rather, that union is of God's enemy.

Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers.

I don't think a woman should only have known marriage is as an abusive relationship.

And if she lives to divorce should not have to remain yoked to her abuser even in spirit.

God forgives.

1 Corinthians 7 deals with this subject.

 

[Papermonkey]

1 Corinthians 7 deals with this subject.

'15 ''But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so.''

How often do abusive spouses seek divorce?Their behavior intends to make the wife subservient.

Divorce and he'd have to start all over again.

Plus, if marriage makes the two one flesh what is spousal abuse but self abuse?

Here's another thing. Some of us argue we're not Jews so we don't have to follow what they insist is a practice in Judaism.

Yet when it comes to divorce they're making an exception.

I know a woman who was married to a devil. But, he professed to be Christian.
To save her life after years of abuse, no kids thank God, she ran away while he was at work.

She came to my then home state. And after serious introspection, and healing of her injuries, she filed for divorce.
When he was served he ignored the summons. She was awarded the divorce by default.

That was ten years ago. After the divorce she changed her life and her name. An attorney arranged a different SSN. No idea how.

She's remarried and celebrated her 4th anniversary in a different state from where I lived and is the happiest I've seen her in ever.

If God thinks she is still married to a creature who beat her so she could barely stand, dragged her to the toilet, pushed her head into the blue water in the toilet and held her under, while putting a 380 pistol to the back of her head so she could feel the dry fire clicks as he pulled the trigger repeatedly, I'm in the wrong faith.

I know I'm not in the wrong faith. And all the dead wives and husbands too who died after ''I do'', do too.

No woman or man should die alone, unmarried, because a devil tricked them to the altar.

One devil already tricked a woman, and her husband too. And that fell the entire human race.
Jesus came to free us from that.
I don't believe Jesus would expect us to not save ourselves from a devil of a spouse.
And live unmarried after to the day we die gives that devil control even after we're out of reach of his,her,fists.

My friend isn't an adultress. Now, she's a glowing happy healthy proud Mrs.
And God blessed her every day.
😊

 

[JohnDB]

He doesn't approve of it. There is just no scriptural basis for divorce because of abuse.
This doesn't mean women and children should not seek safety. It just means the scripture doesn't allow for divorce on grounds of abuse.

Yes there is scriptural basis for divorce because of abuse.

 

[Cameron143]

'15 ''But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so.''

How often do abusive spouses seek divorce?Their behavior intends to make the wife subservient.

Divorce and he'd have to start all over again.

Plus, if marriage makes the two one flesh what is spousal abuse but self abuse?

Here's another thing. Some of us argue we're not Jews so we don't have to follow what they insist is a practice in Judaism.

Yet when it comes to divorce they're making an exception.

I know a woman who was married to a devil. But, he professed to be Christian.
To save her life after years of abuse, no kids thank God, she ran away while he was at work.

She came to my then home state. And after serious introspection, and healing of her injuries, she filed for divorce.
When he was served he ignored the summons. She was awarded the divorce by default.

That was ten years ago. After the divorce she changed her life and her name. An attorney arranged a different SSN. No idea how.

She's remarried and celebrated her 4th anniversary in a different state from where I lived and is the happiest I've seen her in ever.

If God thinks she is still married to a creature who beat her so she could barely stand, dragged her to the toilet, pushed her head into the blue water in the toilet and held her under, while putting a 380 pistol to the back of her head so she could feel the dry fire clicks as he pulled the trigger repeatedly, I'm in the wrong faith.

I know I'm not in the wrong faith. And all the dead wives and husbands too who died after ''I do'', do too.

No woman or man should die alone, unmarried, because a devil tricked them to the altar.

One devil already tricked a woman, and her husband too. And that fell the entire human race.
Jesus came to free us from that.
I don't believe Jesus would expect us to not save ourselves from a devil of a spouse.
And live unmarried after to the day we die gives that devil control even after we're out of reach of his,her,fists.

My friend isn't an adultress. Now, she's a glowing happy healthy proud Mrs.
And God blessed her every day.
😊

I'm not your conscience. You are responsible to God. I shared some scripture. It's up to God to direct steps.
Just so you know, I would never advocate for remaining in a place of potential harm. But they are called wedding vows. It's not good to break a vow to God.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes there is scriptural basis for divorce because of abuse.

Do share please.

 

[JohnDB]

Do share please.

The famous Malachi verse where God says "I hate divorce". The fullness of the passage is that God hates abuse more.

 

[Lynx]

The famous Malachi verse where God says "I hate divorce". The fullness of the passage is that God hates abuse more.

That must be in "The Message" version of the Bible. =^.^=

No I'm not saying God is cool with abuse. But there are more logical ways to argue it. NOTHING in the Bible says God hates abuse more than divorce. First you'd have to define what kind of abuse you're talking about, and then find chapter and verse.

 

[Cameron143]

The famous Malachi verse where God says "I hate divorce". The fullness of the passage is that God hates abuse more.

God hates sin more than sin?

 

[JohnDB]

That must be in "The Message" version of the Bible. =^.^=

No I'm not saying God is cool with abuse. But there are more logical ways to argue it. NOTHING in the Bible says God hates abuse more than divorce. First you'd have to define what kind of abuse you're talking about, and then find chapter and verse.

I know that it's difficult to simply trust someone else's understanding of scriptures...especially when I don't exactly have a job description of preacher or televangelist.

But what you are asking for is a very long dissertation that explains the nuances of anthropology of the Ancient Near East in Israel and then go further in explaining the intricacies of Hebrew poetry.

It's a big ask...especially for a social media platform...where any opinion is instantly dismissed by the dumbest participants.

 

[Lynx]

I know that it's difficult to simply trust someone else's understanding of scriptures...especially when I don't exactly have a job description of preacher or televangelist.

But what you are asking for is a very long dissertation that explains the nuances of anthropology of the Ancient Near East in Israel and then go further in explaining the intricacies of Hebrew poetry.

It's a big ask...especially for a social media platform...where any opinion is instantly dismissed by the dumbest participants.

Well so far this divorce thread has been chasing its tail just like all the divorce threads do. Go ahead and give it a try. Can't be worse.

 

[JohnDB]

Well so far this divorce thread has been chasing its tail just like all the divorce threads do. Go ahead and give it a try. Can't be worse.

Well it's going to have to wait.

After this visit to the middle of nowhere GA I apparently am buying a house. It's almost a tar paper shack but with a case of lipstic and a few rolls of ribbon on this pig it might be worth kissing.

So I'm driving to home tomorrow to pack up my place in TN and that's going to be a massive undertaking. With me being a baker and a chef and leathercrafts and woodworker and hobby theologian trying to understand Hebrew and Greek and Latin and Aramaic as well as anthropology and history....
And
Then as an electrician and mechanic and.....
Needless to say that I've accumulated some books and junk....

Then my wife is not much different than me in a lot of respects....sewing, knitting, paper crafts, and editing and writing and calligraphy and.....should I continue? She has electronics and is my partner in crime with Patisserie projects. (Packaging)

Needless to say I have to throw away two couches just so I have room for the boxes and bicycle. Nevermind the dishes and odds and ends. I'm going to need to work diligently just to pack up the pantry...nevermind the rest. I got 6 weeks to pack and move.
Wanna come help?