How Do You Determine If Someone Is "Christian Enough" For You?
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i have a lot of compassion for what you're saying, and i too have my own specific challenges, including living in an ultra-liberal state where "church" or "christian" aren't exactly embraced.
however, i refuse to allow others' experiences dictate my own. if the (marital) failures of this world, church, whatever, are motivation to throw out the book and try things our own way, then i'd have given up on the idea of marriage and just lived with a guy. why bother with marriage in the first place?
i fail to understand the logic of tossing out the blueprint because other people have failed.
i find it very sad that the impact of failing marriage is felt greater than the impact of a good marriage. fortunately for me, i have enormously positive memories of marriages that do work.
as to validating couples who've managed to survive in spite of their beginning circumstances--good for them. that's awesome. but to use it as justification to toss out the blueprint?
at the end of the day, there is no apple to apple comparison that will ever apply entirely to your own experience. period.
however, i refuse to allow others' experiences dictate my own. if the (marital) failures of this world, church, whatever, are motivation to throw out the book and try things our own way, then i'd have given up on the idea of marriage and just lived with a guy. why bother with marriage in the first place?
i fail to understand the logic of tossing out the blueprint because other people have failed.
i find it very sad that the impact of failing marriage is felt greater than the impact of a good marriage. fortunately for me, i have enormously positive memories of marriages that do work.
as to validating couples who've managed to survive in spite of their beginning circumstances--good for them. that's awesome. but to use it as justification to toss out the blueprint?
at the end of the day, there is no apple to apple comparison that will ever apply entirely to your own experience. period.
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C
Thanks for the welcome. So, you would like to know my story. Why I am so against Christians! Well it's your lucky day, I shall tell you. I was in an abusive relationship and not to where it was just my ex husband who abused me but it was his parents and family members. They sat and kept me locked up in a prison, sat and watched while I got beaten and dared me to fight back or they would jump in and hit me and kept me basically as a hostage. But yet they would get their Holy Ghost on Sundays and where their stupid blue jean skirts and jump around praising their god and never once thought what they did to me was wrong nor tried to stop it. And still they don't even think what they did was wrong and their church friends and people still think they are good decent Christians. How pathetic they are! If they do go to heaven, I don't want to go! That's why Christians are not very Christian to me and a disgrace to a God to have people so fake and hypocritical supporting him.
C
And I know what people will say that not all Christians are that way. Yeah right! You wanna know why I went to a Christian chat room to let you all know I know that all of you are probably a hypocrite underneath and that I see it and you don't fool me. It's time that someone tells you why we sinners and liberals as you all call us don't want Christians parading around this life contaminating our society with their hypocrisy! Sorry if I sound so mean but that's how I see it.
I
Countess, I'm deeply and sincerely sorry for what happened to you. And there are no words that can express how sorry I am. N' I know I'll never feel how you felt cuz I was never in your shoes. You have every right to be sad and angry at those people who abused you.....
And I WON'T tell you that not all Christians are that way, because that's not the point now. But I'll leave you with 2 things:
1) FORGET about Christians, FOCUS on Christ Himself and ONLY Christ. He was absolutely without any sin and He is Love and He feels exactly how you feel cuz no one on earth ever suffered as much as Jesus Christ.
2) There's a big difference between identifying the wrong and judging a person. IF I say Countess you are a sinner and you will go to hell, then I'm judging you and I will be judged by God in return. However, if I said for example, swearing is a sin or is wrong, period, then I'm only identifying something to be wrong for myself to know right from wrong for my own benefit. I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just giving you a general example.
I'm sorry again Countess for your hardship and I'm here if you'd like to talk. But I highly suggest that the ONLY one to talk to right now is the sinless One Jesus Christ!.....
And I WON'T tell you that not all Christians are that way, because that's not the point now. But I'll leave you with 2 things:
1) FORGET about Christians, FOCUS on Christ Himself and ONLY Christ. He was absolutely without any sin and He is Love and He feels exactly how you feel cuz no one on earth ever suffered as much as Jesus Christ.
2) There's a big difference between identifying the wrong and judging a person. IF I say Countess you are a sinner and you will go to hell, then I'm judging you and I will be judged by God in return. However, if I said for example, swearing is a sin or is wrong, period, then I'm only identifying something to be wrong for myself to know right from wrong for my own benefit. I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just giving you a general example.
I'm sorry again Countess for your hardship and I'm here if you'd like to talk. But I highly suggest that the ONLY one to talk to right now is the sinless One Jesus Christ!.....
C
Nice post. Perhaps what I said was a little harsh but I get your point and I can't help but ask why doesn't God or Jesus punish them for what they did to me answer that. Why is it they still walk around as if they did nothing wrong and still go to their church and probably still get their Holy Ghost but why does nothing happen to them for acting that way and making God seem evil and God does nothing to them to make them stop why not?
J
I'm sorry you experienced this. The abusive behaviors you are describing sound nothing like the behavior of followers of Christ. I hope it helps to know that many of us have been hurt by wolves in sheep's clothing as well.
I'll be praying that God will heal the deep wounds that have brought this about and that He will reveal Himself to you in a mighty way. You may think you came here to tell off Christians, but something tells me that perhaps He called you here so you could see what real Christianity looks like. It is encouraging to know you realize Christ is nothing like the people you have described here. I pray you eventually realize his true followers are not like that either.
Again, I say welcome.
P.S. It may APPEAR that people get by with things in this life, but God is not mocked.
I'll be praying that God will heal the deep wounds that have brought this about and that He will reveal Himself to you in a mighty way. You may think you came here to tell off Christians, but something tells me that perhaps He called you here so you could see what real Christianity looks like. It is encouraging to know you realize Christ is nothing like the people you have described here. I pray you eventually realize his true followers are not like that either.
Again, I say welcome.
P.S. It may APPEAR that people get by with things in this life, but God is not mocked.
I
You've expressed how you felt and that's absolutely fine and it is your right. I was not intimidated or offended by anything from what you said. I honestly feel for you Countess, n' I hope you believe that!.....
Here's the answer for your question Countess:
We will ALL be judged on the judgement day. Those who crucified and tortured Jesus Christ Himself has not been judged yet either, they will be judged with everyone on the judgement day. So who are we to claim judgement for those who hurt us now. We ALL have to wait to the judgement day Countess. And it is actually a good thing because it gives us a chance to stop judging others, lest we will also be judged and counted equal to our offenders.
Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Here's the answer for your question Countess:
We will ALL be judged on the judgement day. Those who crucified and tortured Jesus Christ Himself has not been judged yet either, they will be judged with everyone on the judgement day. So who are we to claim judgement for those who hurt us now. We ALL have to wait to the judgement day Countess. And it is actually a good thing because it gives us a chance to stop judging others, lest we will also be judged and counted equal to our offenders.
Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Hi Countess,
I do understand what you are saying, as many will here. I'm sorry for what you've been through. Know that you are definitely not the only one. We also have a Women's Forum here as well if you would like to talk to other women about what you've been through. We ALL have stories. I've gone through times of being just as angry as you are now. I have been in relationships involving abusive families as well. I'll try to keep this short but in one case, the person was extremely physically abusive, leaving physical scars on their children, and what infuriated me is that years later, the person said, "Oh, I didn't know Jesus then so my behavior couldn't be helped... but I know Him now," and sent me countless religious tracts and letters about how I needed "The Truth" in my life. This person saw their religion as a clean slate to anything they had ever done wrong instead of taking responsibility. Believe me, whatever truth they were trying to mandate on people, I didn't want any part of it.
My point is, while I understand how angry and bitter you feel, I hope you also know you are not alone. There are people here to talk to and listen to you if you'd like to find others who can relate to your experiences.
As for your charge that all Christians are hypocrites, I'd say that's the number one complaint I hear about Christians on a regular basis. Believe me, we Christians will be the first to say we sometimes feel that way about other Christians as well!! As I said before, we're like any other group of people with variations and dissent.
I understand why you see all Christians as being alike and I do understand. However, and I am speaking only for me, please understand that it is also a way of stereotyping any group of people.
For instance, in my own life, people have sometimes told me, "You (racial slur for Asians) are all the same and you (insert stereotypes based on their negative experiences with Asians here)!!"
I also hear this as a woman: "You women are all the same! You're only out for money, you only care about looks, and you're nothing but hollow, artificial gold diggers who couldn't be faithful even if you tried!"
And, of course, as you pointed out, "You Christians are pathetic, claiming to know God when you don't even act like Him!!"
To me, it all sounds the same. The other person is saying, "SO AND SO DID ME WRONG AND YOU'RE PART OF THAT GROUP SO I'M GONNA MAKE YOU PAY AND TAKE BACK WHAT PEOPLE OWE ME!!! JUST TRY AND PROVE TO ME THAT YOU'RE DIFFERENT BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE NOT!!"
I've come to realize, if someone hates Asians, women, or Christians, I can't change their mind. It's already made up.
The key things to remember are:
1. Someone in this position knows what they believe and is holding to it. It's not our job to dispel it, and this makes such a demand null and void. As I said before, we all choose what we want to believe. If a person's mind is made up based on their own experience and they choose to apply it to the majority, they are unlikely to budge. There's no reason to try to argue otherwise. You believe as you do, I believe as I do; we can choose to go on in peace.
2. You cannot force a "payment" from the people who didn't hurt you. I realize that right now, venting and unleashing your anger probably feels like a slight relief in some ways, but none of us can make up for what happened. I'm sorry for what you've been through, but we are not those people. In fact, you can't force payment from the people who hurt you either, and I guess that's one reason why we Christians believe as we do. We realize that some things are out of our control... and so we choose (again, it's a choice, not a decision I'm trying to force on anyone) to allow God to take care of the situation instead. If we spend our lives trying to demand paybacks for our hurts or bitterly lashing out or frustrations on other people, we'll surely die lonely, miserable, stressed-out deaths. Not that letting God handle it is easy by any means. The person I told you about? Sometimes I still get angry when I remember them too.
But, we're all a work in process.
Thanks for coming and hanging out with us as we all go through it.
(Just as a side note, I do hope that anyone who still wants to contribute to original topic of the thread will do so. Just wanted to take a minute and address our sister's concerns here. Thanks for understanding! )
I do understand what you are saying, as many will here. I'm sorry for what you've been through. Know that you are definitely not the only one. We also have a Women's Forum here as well if you would like to talk to other women about what you've been through. We ALL have stories. I've gone through times of being just as angry as you are now. I have been in relationships involving abusive families as well. I'll try to keep this short but in one case, the person was extremely physically abusive, leaving physical scars on their children, and what infuriated me is that years later, the person said, "Oh, I didn't know Jesus then so my behavior couldn't be helped... but I know Him now," and sent me countless religious tracts and letters about how I needed "The Truth" in my life. This person saw their religion as a clean slate to anything they had ever done wrong instead of taking responsibility. Believe me, whatever truth they were trying to mandate on people, I didn't want any part of it.
My point is, while I understand how angry and bitter you feel, I hope you also know you are not alone. There are people here to talk to and listen to you if you'd like to find others who can relate to your experiences.
As for your charge that all Christians are hypocrites, I'd say that's the number one complaint I hear about Christians on a regular basis. Believe me, we Christians will be the first to say we sometimes feel that way about other Christians as well!! As I said before, we're like any other group of people with variations and dissent.
I understand why you see all Christians as being alike and I do understand. However, and I am speaking only for me, please understand that it is also a way of stereotyping any group of people.
For instance, in my own life, people have sometimes told me, "You (racial slur for Asians) are all the same and you (insert stereotypes based on their negative experiences with Asians here)!!"
I also hear this as a woman: "You women are all the same! You're only out for money, you only care about looks, and you're nothing but hollow, artificial gold diggers who couldn't be faithful even if you tried!"
And, of course, as you pointed out, "You Christians are pathetic, claiming to know God when you don't even act like Him!!"
To me, it all sounds the same. The other person is saying, "SO AND SO DID ME WRONG AND YOU'RE PART OF THAT GROUP SO I'M GONNA MAKE YOU PAY AND TAKE BACK WHAT PEOPLE OWE ME!!! JUST TRY AND PROVE TO ME THAT YOU'RE DIFFERENT BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE NOT!!"
I've come to realize, if someone hates Asians, women, or Christians, I can't change their mind. It's already made up.
The key things to remember are:
1. Someone in this position knows what they believe and is holding to it. It's not our job to dispel it, and this makes such a demand null and void. As I said before, we all choose what we want to believe. If a person's mind is made up based on their own experience and they choose to apply it to the majority, they are unlikely to budge. There's no reason to try to argue otherwise. You believe as you do, I believe as I do; we can choose to go on in peace.
2. You cannot force a "payment" from the people who didn't hurt you. I realize that right now, venting and unleashing your anger probably feels like a slight relief in some ways, but none of us can make up for what happened. I'm sorry for what you've been through, but we are not those people. In fact, you can't force payment from the people who hurt you either, and I guess that's one reason why we Christians believe as we do. We realize that some things are out of our control... and so we choose (again, it's a choice, not a decision I'm trying to force on anyone) to allow God to take care of the situation instead. If we spend our lives trying to demand paybacks for our hurts or bitterly lashing out or frustrations on other people, we'll surely die lonely, miserable, stressed-out deaths. Not that letting God handle it is easy by any means. The person I told you about? Sometimes I still get angry when I remember them too.
But, we're all a work in process.
Thanks for coming and hanging out with us as we all go through it.
(Just as a side note, I do hope that anyone who still wants to contribute to original topic of the thread will do so
. Just wanted to take a minute and address our sister's concerns here. Thanks for understanding! )
C
I do have another question. Why would God allow my dad to die not too long ago and he was a good "Christian" man, a deacon in church, one who read the bible constantly and yet, God took him from pulmonary fibrosis from agent orange and yet that person I was abused by his parents get to still live. His mother sat here and watched him beat me (in which I still after a year have bruises from it) and she would say things like if you hit my son (because it is human nature to fight back especially when someone is trying to kill you) but she would say that she would beat me if I try to fight back and that she wouldn't even let me call my family to come and help me before I luckily finally got the opportunity to leave. But she did all that and she is a holiness or whatever she is (a hypocrite) and wears her blue jean skirts and her hair in a bun and dances around like a fool in her church always getting the Holy Ghost so why did God take my dad and he hasn't taken her out of this world. I can't understand it!
I'm sorry you experienced this. The abusive behaviors you are describing sound nothing like the behavior of followers of Christ. I hope it helps to know that many of us have been hurt by wolves in sheep's clothing as well.
I'll be praying that God will heal the deep wounds that have brought this about and that He will reveal Himself to you in a mighty way. You may think you came here to tell off Christians, but something tells me that perhaps He called you here so you could see what real Christianity looks like. It is encouraging to know you realize Christ is nothing like the people you have described here. I pray you eventually realize his true followers are not like that either.
Again, I say welcome.
P.S. It may APPEAR that people get by with things in this life, but God is not mocked.
I'll be praying that God will heal the deep wounds that have brought this about and that He will reveal Himself to you in a mighty way. You may think you came here to tell off Christians, but something tells me that perhaps He called you here so you could see what real Christianity looks like. It is encouraging to know you realize Christ is nothing like the people you have described here. I pray you eventually realize his true followers are not like that either.
Again, I say welcome.
P.S. It may APPEAR that people get by with things in this life, but God is not mocked.
countess, i'm so sorry for your pain. please feel free to message me if you'd like -- also, you'll find a lot of caring people here at CC if you are looking for them.
I agree to a point, I have great marriage to look at and see lasting marriages between believers. My parents and other relatives have had those marriages. But I'm getting to the age now my best options are more than likely young divorcees and single moms. Even in christian circles Im looking at the same. Oh boy! So yeah, I guess Im just not as enthusiastic about the whole concept as I once was.
I
Good question Countess
John 16: 33 says These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will[a] have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.
We are living in a broken world Countess, THAT'S what God warned us from. BUT look at His promise for us here in this verse!
Think of it that way, you get into your car, you want to go to heaven, so you enter heaven's address in your GPS n' you start driving. Imagine God as your GPS. You are responsible for the steering wheel. You keep taking different routes from what your GPS (God) is showing you, YET, every time you change the route, your GPS (God) keeps re-calculating to put you back on the right route to heaven, which is your final destination.
So God is here to protect us, to fix our mistakes and put us back on the right track, NOT, to kill or harm or allow the bad. God IS Love Countess!
Now, what's the benefit of our tribulations then?
Romans 5: 3-4 answers the questions saying And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; [SUP]4 [/SUP]and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
I suggest if you want, you can PM me with more questions cuz we went off topic for the thread here, thanks Countess for your great questions. Keep them coming, it's excellent that you wanna know and learn. We all do wanna learn.
John 16: 33 says These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will[a] have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.
We are living in a broken world Countess, THAT'S what God warned us from. BUT look at His promise for us here in this verse!
Think of it that way, you get into your car, you want to go to heaven, so you enter heaven's address in your GPS n' you start driving. Imagine God as your GPS. You are responsible for the steering wheel. You keep taking different routes from what your GPS (God) is showing you, YET, every time you change the route, your GPS (God) keeps re-calculating to put you back on the right route to heaven, which is your final destination.
So God is here to protect us, to fix our mistakes and put us back on the right track, NOT, to kill or harm or allow the bad. God IS Love Countess!
Now, what's the benefit of our tribulations then?
Romans 5: 3-4 answers the questions saying And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; [SUP]4 [/SUP]and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
I suggest if you want, you can PM me with more questions cuz we went off topic for the thread here, thanks Countess for your great questions.
Keep them coming, it's excellent that you wanna know and learn. We all do wanna learn. well, i certainly can understand. i'm in a very similar boat.
i guess i don't see things as "well, if my best option isn't available, then oh well. time to settle." for me this is about trusting God in my life. settling is always an option, but it comes with costs.
i will always prefer single to signing up what i believe isn't what God's best for me is. i'm not talking about divorcees or single dads. but i'm not willing to risk what i perceive as a compromise. if for no other reason that believing in all my heart that being unhappily married is always worse than being single. you've probably seen as many examples of that as i have.
by the way, if i ever do marry, i sure hope that he is as stubborn as i am. : )
i guess i don't see things as "well, if my best option isn't available, then oh well. time to settle." for me this is about trusting God in my life. settling is always an option, but it comes with costs.
i will always prefer single to signing up what i believe isn't what God's best for me is. i'm not talking about divorcees or single dads. but i'm not willing to risk what i perceive as a compromise. if for no other reason that believing in all my heart that being unhappily married is always worse than being single. you've probably seen as many examples of that as i have.
by the way, if i ever do marry, i sure hope that he is as stubborn as i am. : )
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Not to get off topic for too much longer here, but I just wanted to address your other important questions, Countess.
I'm only speaking for myself here, but you're pointing out what for me is one of my greatest personal frustrations as a Christian. We honestly don't know why some things happen the way they do, why some good people die, and other people who only wreak havoc are allowed to live. Why are some people not brought to justice, and counterfeits are allowed to carry on? Sometimes the only thing we Christians can choose to believe is that God is in control and if it's not dealt with in this life, it will be handled in the next.
You've asked things we all ask, so again, I hope you won't feel alone. I'm really sorry about your Dad. In my former location, I was part of a wonderful church whose pastor's wife had died suddenly and for no apparent reason. One day she was playing tennis; the next day she was in the hospital; by Sunday she had passed away, leaving the pastor with four kids to raise by himself. I don't know why these kinds of things happen, and I know it hurts something awful.
Just recently I learned of an unjust situation in the life of a friend, and I prayed for justice because I was so frustrated that I didn't know what else to pray for.
To be completely honest, I've come to wits end in my own Christian walk too, including a suicide attempt because I couldn't handle believing in a God who, as you pointed out, lets things happen the way they do. I was also frustrated with the fact that I was always told I should be grateful that Jesus saved me, but I always said, I never asked to exist in the first place. I would tell Him, "That was Your decision, not mine... why do I have to live it out?"
Yet for some reason, I go on believing. Why? I'll be honest with you, sometimes I'm not even sure. And I'm sure plenty of Christians would criticize me for that. But do you know one of the reasons I keep on believing and why I truly love God? Because no matter how angry I get or how many times I lose faith or vent out in frustration, I believe God is still there, and that He still listens and accepts me the way I am. The Maker of the Universe still wants me with Him, no matter how much I lash out, and that's an amazing thing to me.
I don't know why some things happen the way they do. But do you know what gives me hope in this life? The thought that someday, I'm going to be able to ask The One Who Overlooks Everything all my questions... and more.
There are several of us who want to listen and help, Countess. Feel free to PM us or, as I said, perhaps visit the Women's Forum--you'll find many other compassionate women who can sympathize with everything you're saying.
I'm only speaking for myself here, but you're pointing out what for me is one of my greatest personal frustrations as a Christian. We honestly don't know why some things happen the way they do, why some good people die, and other people who only wreak havoc are allowed to live. Why are some people not brought to justice, and counterfeits are allowed to carry on? Sometimes the only thing we Christians can choose to believe is that God is in control and if it's not dealt with in this life, it will be handled in the next.
You've asked things we all ask, so again, I hope you won't feel alone. I'm really sorry about your Dad. In my former location, I was part of a wonderful church whose pastor's wife had died suddenly and for no apparent reason. One day she was playing tennis; the next day she was in the hospital; by Sunday she had passed away, leaving the pastor with four kids to raise by himself. I don't know why these kinds of things happen, and I know it hurts something awful.
Just recently I learned of an unjust situation in the life of a friend, and I prayed for justice because I was so frustrated that I didn't know what else to pray for.
To be completely honest, I've come to wits end in my own Christian walk too, including a suicide attempt because I couldn't handle believing in a God who, as you pointed out, lets things happen the way they do. I was also frustrated with the fact that I was always told I should be grateful that Jesus saved me, but I always said, I never asked to exist in the first place. I would tell Him, "That was Your decision, not mine... why do I have to live it out?"
Yet for some reason, I go on believing. Why? I'll be honest with you, sometimes I'm not even sure. And I'm sure plenty of Christians would criticize me for that. But do you know one of the reasons I keep on believing and why I truly love God? Because no matter how angry I get or how many times I lose faith or vent out in frustration, I believe God is still there, and that He still listens and accepts me the way I am. The Maker of the Universe still wants me with Him, no matter how much I lash out, and that's an amazing thing to me.
I don't know why some things happen the way they do. But do you know what gives me hope in this life? The thought that someday, I'm going to be able to ask The One Who Overlooks Everything all my questions... and more.
There are several of us who want to listen and help, Countess. Feel free to PM us or, as I said, perhaps visit the Women's Forum--you'll find many other compassionate women who can sympathize with everything you're saying.
Hmm! People judge according to what they see (and you already said: You haven´t met a Christian WHOM you have seen Jesus IN).
Your profile says this:
About Countess
Gender:femaleMarital Status:not marriedSpiritual Status:
unsure
Can any person see Christ on this red letters?
We judge wrong, I agree on that, but you are not an exeception.
Joh 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment." (Jesus said so)
Your profile says this:
About Countess
Gender:femaleMarital Status:not marriedSpiritual Status:
unsure
Can any person see Christ on this red letters?
We judge wrong, I agree on that, but you are not an exeception.
Joh 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment." (Jesus said so)