I use to wear a teeny-tiny torture device around my neck. Style?

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Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
3,999
142
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#1
It was a cross necklace.

I have to ask- and at the same time try not to offend anyone who still practices wearing such pieces of jewlery. (Cross earrings, bracelets, etc.) I'm not even opposed to Jesus T's, WWJD items, because if you're going to wear something, why not have His name/scripture on it?) Me-being the person I am, always questioning why I do or follow a trend, was wondering: Does the Lord mind if we wear the thing that He suffered on an artsy piece of body decoration? ,,,or place it on the side of buildings and churches?
Anyone who knows anything, about crucifixion- knows that it is an EXTREMELY cruel, horrible and miserable way to kill someone? (Maybe even one of the worse ways ever created?) A device that created a slow, time consuming torture for the person- on their way to dying. Considering that the person could take up to days to die (eventually suffocating) and when death (the open wounds, dehydration, the elements) would drag on, they sped it up by the breaking of their legs.

So...is it okay to sling / or permit slinging this evil device around as a symbol for our loving Savior. Scripture? Anyone?

It was WHY He died on the cross that was a testimony of His love for us...not HOW He did it.

At which point in the NT Churches history did we say it was okay to use any sort of symbols, graven images, rituals, (like the pagans do) to represent our loving Father? Yes, it reminds people of Jesus, all over the world-but does it really remind them of why He did it?
 

Lynx

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2014
15,041
2,788
113
#2
Beats me. I think it was a catholic church thing at the start, wearing the crucifix as a kind of spiritual protection against... something, evil spirits maybe.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#3
Ugh.. this again?
And wearing a cross is a graven image? Do you even know what that term means?

[h=2]graven image[/h] noun : an object (such as a statue) that is worshipped as a god or in place of a god




I've yet to meet a Christian who worships the cross, but then i guess if you adopted that (correct) definition) you couldn't misuse scripture to support your theory.

A cross is symbolic, such as 'take up your cross and follow me'. It was being used as a symbol, not a literal, physical cross we all must carry. If it helps remind someone of their walk, their faith, Christ, to do the right thing, etc... then why try to demonize the symbol of our salvation?
Yes, the cross was a brutal, gruesome method of torture. And having something to remind us of what Christ suffered through for our sake is now being dubbed as a 'graven image' and treated as evil? The very reason you're giving, the horrible sort of death it was is actually the reason we should wear it, if we choose to.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
560
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#4
Romans 14
1
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19
Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

God bless
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
3,999
142
63
42
#5
Ugh.. this again?
And wearing a cross is a graven image? Do you even know what that term means?

graven image

noun : an object (such as a statue) that is worshipped as a god or in place of a god




I've yet to meet a Christian who worships the cross, but then i guess if you adopted that (correct) definition) you couldn't misuse scripture to support your theory.

A cross is symbolic, such as 'take up your cross and follow me'. It was being used as a symbol, not a literal, physical cross we all must carry. If it helps remind someone of their walk, their faith, Christ, to do the right thing, etc... then why try to demonize the symbol of our salvation?
Yes, the cross was a brutal, gruesome method of torture. And having something to remind us of what Christ suffered through for our sake is now being dubbed as a 'graven image' and treated as evil? The very reason you're giving, the horrible sort of death it was is actually the reason we should wear it, if we choose to.
Okay. That's why I asked. Thank you....Your definition proven my point. Please , if you want to use scripture in the future, do the same :) :D See: That is EXACTLY what a cross does and represents. BTW you forgot: an object of worship carved usually from wood or stone?..... that is, unless you know any crosses made of titanium alloy? God Bless. :)
P.S. A 'cross' used in that context my friend- is not literal. :D
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
3,999
142
63
42
#6
Beats me. I think it was a catholic church thing at the start, wearing the crucifix as a kind of spiritual protection against... something, evil spirits maybe.
Yeah, and everytime it's used by the Catholics...it's creepy. Another great example of we should use Him for protection, not two sticks. :)
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
3,999
142
63
42
#7
Romans 14
1
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19
Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

God bless
Is it good to say EVERYTHING, that everybody says or does is okay, as long as they claim Christ while doing it? Out of context my friend- but thanks. God Bless.
 
B

BananaPie

Guest
#8
It was a cross necklace.
So...is it okay to sling... this evil device around as a symbol for our loving Savior. ?
...uh... evil device? :confused:

Evil can only exist in the heart of Man (Mark 7:21, Jeremiah 17:9).

Word to the wise: If you want to be taken seriously, avoid hyperbole. ...just sayin'. :)
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
560
113
#9
Is it good to say EVERYTHING, that everybody says or does is okay, as long as they claim Christ while doing it? Out of context my friend- but thanks. God Bless.
I did not even say anything. I pasted a Bible chapter in entirety that adresses this type of things and not one word of mine except "bless you".
There is nothing inherently wrong in wearing a cross. I dont wear one simply because I dont see profit in it but have no problem with those who do in remembrance of Jesus. They dont do it with evil heart. That is between them and God. For you it is apparently wrong to wear it as you feel convicted.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
31
48
#10
Yeah, and everytime it's used by the Catholics...it's creepy. Another great example of we should use Him for protection, not two sticks. :)
Christ gave to the cross a deeper meaning. I am not sure I am ready to talk about the beautiful meaning of the life-giving cross with someone who sees it as merely two sticks. Also, the cross is not an evil device, but the way God chose to defeat the evil by fully and authentically partaking to the human drama and suffering.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
3,999
142
63
42
#11
...uh... evil device? :confused:

Evil can only exist in the heart of Man (Mark 7:21, Jeremiah 17:9).

Word to the wise: If you want to be taken seriously, avoid hyperbole. ...just sayin'. :)

Sorry, hard to convey tone in notes. I've always been a little heavy on the sarcasm pedal. Won't happen again, promise. I was just saying that the device itself is evil. (and I'm sure thousands of Romans would agree) I am convinced He knew He would die that awful, horrible death, just to show the entire human race HOW much He loves us. Be well.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
3,999
142
63
42
#12
I did not even say anything. I pasted a Bible chapter in entirety that adresses this type of things and not one word of mine except "bless you".
There is nothing inherently wrong in wearing a cross. I dont wear one simply because I dont see profit in it but have no problem with those who do in remembrance of Jesus. They dont do it with evil heart. That is between them and God. For you it is apparently wrong to wear it as you feel convicted.




Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Sorry, hard to convey tone in msgs.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
560
113
#13
Yes, it can be. It is no problem. I didnt mean any kind of offense towards you and know you didnt either.

Please read that chapter of Romans in wholeness. It says "happy is he whose heart does not condemn him in which he allows". That means God wont condemn either. Whether your heart will condemn you, it depends on whether it is generally evil (dont lie, dont steal, etc) or if you are personally convicted of something (which depends on you as a person and your experiences during life which will determine how you will look upon an issue, and also your amount of faith).

Let me share this testimony. Before I knew God, I used to find lost crosses all the time. God was calling me. I found dozens during my life. Since I became a believer, I did not find even one.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
3,999
142
63
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#14
Yes, it can be. It is no problem. I didnt mean any kind of offense towards you and know you didnt either.

Please read that chapter of Romans in wholeness. It says "happy is he whose heart does not condemn him in which he allows". That means God wont condemn either. Whether your heart will condemn you, it depends on whether it is generally evil (dont lie, dont steal, etc) or if you are personally convicted of something (which depends on you as a person and your experiences during life which will determine how you will look upon an issue, and also your amount of faith).

Let me share this testimony. Before I knew God, I used to find lost crosses all the time. God was calling me. I found dozens during my life. Since I became a believer, I did not find even one.
That's actually a really cool story. Be well.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
560
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#15
Actually I did find one a few years ago when I moved and I was very distressed if it was a good place to move. When I opened one of the drawers I found a miniature cross inside and I instantly was at peace knew this place would be all right. And it was.

But indeed, I've been sharing this about crosses (I've been even finding mini icons) and I dont know anybody who has found that many, about one per year or so, since kindergarden. I guess I was a really stubborn child and wasnt "getting" it! LOL
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
3,659
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#16
I get your point. On one hand, a cross isn't even that special: many people were killed that way back in those times. It wasn't like Jesus was the only one.

The difference is that Jesus did it for US, and it wasn't just the physical torture, it was the spiritual torture as well, even more so. The weight of sin, the weight of everything that comes with sin, the weight of God turning His back on His son, pouring out His wrath on him...we cannot fathom it. Not even a little. I think of how guilty/burdened I feel after ONE sin, and He bore the entire sin of mankind. That right there is just...crushing. So, I think the cross, as mentioned before, is a reminder of that. To remind us of the beauty of what He did. He didn't go through all that because He had to. This is GOD we're talking about. He could have dropped them all with a breath. He WANTED to. Because He loves us. So no, I don't think it's evil.

I do get what you're saying, though. My friend, who is very squeamish with blood, asked me one time, "Ugh, why do all these worship songs and hymns have to sing about His blood? It's just gross." And it's true. If we sang about ANYONE else's blood, we'd think it was disgusting, morbid, etc. But it's the meaning behind it.
 

Tintin

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2013
20,301
295
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#17
Come on, Reborn. You say people don't want to talk to you about faith matters in real life. Judging by your threads/posts, I get the impression that it's more the approach, the way you deal with the topic than the topic itself. You come across as rather intense and judgmental (not condemning but ready with something that's divisive). I don't know if that's just you or the way you communicate online but that's the impression I get. Yes, it's so important to be bold in our faith but I'm not entirely sure that your approach is the best one. Just my two cents.
 

CatHerder

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2013
3,551
76
48
#18
Yes, it can be. It is no problem. I didnt mean any kind of offense towards you and know you didnt either.

Please read that chapter of Romans in wholeness. It says "happy is he whose heart does not condemn him in which he allows". That means God wont condemn either. Whether your heart will condemn you, it depends on whether it is generally evil (dont lie, dont steal, etc) or if you are personally convicted of something (which depends on you as a person and your experiences during life which will determine how you will look upon an issue, and also your amount of faith).

Let me share this testimony. Before I knew God, I used to find lost crosses all the time. God was calling me. I found dozens during my life. Since I became a believer, I did not find even one.


Let me know if you find mine! I left one in an old desk at a teaching job I used to have. It is silver, small, but heavy, and on a leather strap.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
3,999
142
63
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#19
Come on, Reborn. You say people don't want to talk to you about faith matters in real life. Judging by your threads/posts, I get the impression that it's more the approach, the way you deal with the topic than the topic itself. You come across as rather intense and judgmental (not condemning but ready with something that's divisive). I don't know if that's just you or the way you communicate online but that's the impression I get. Yes, it's so important to be bold in our faith but I'm not entirely sure that your approach is the best one. Just my two cents.



Intense? Some call is passion for truth, live I've said, it's hard to convey tone in notes. And I have a feeling if my thread was something that was basic..it would sound "pleasant". Thanks for your 2 cents my man- I have enough from you to go to CoinStar now. (see-that is a joke) And please take no offense when I offer my 2 cents back. You sir, come off as smug. The bulk of your responses to women are cute, and playful...the ones towards men seem standoffish, and well....smug. Sorry, just MHO. I am cool with it. And since you seem so quick to give your opinion of me (which you have a few times), I thought it's only fair I finally give my opinion of you?

My handful of posts were never meant to offend, and if they did I apologize. Nor are they there seeking attention, I actually had wished for less. If I wanted attention I'd post Threads I know for a fact that would get clicks. (Happy, basic topics) We are grown ups here, people can choose not to click. But instead of people trying to converse with me, they auto-defend their doctrine and attack--I ask for scripture proof (to maybe convince me) to start the convo, and they just ignore.
I have no grudges, nor do I feel as though I get mad (sarcasm is who I am) I simply send my posts into the great tech-void, in the hopes they spark thought and maybe a deeper conversation about the topic. If one agrees, then cool, if one doesn't, then lets have an open conversation about why you think I may be wrong, ....or vice versa from me--with Scripture -not opinion! ( that is, if they feel I am wrong)
I hope with each post that maybe- just maybe, I can find just one person (for my personal chat) that will expand, and/or go private msg on the matter (in which I've been lucky enough ) But with the first handful, I'm just shown people are willing to attack, 90% of the time WITHOUT fully reading the entire thread, and/or my responses. I was under the impression that we are here to talk like Christians and respond like Christians-not attack, when someone'd doctrine slightly differs?. Not ho-humming our responses every time someone gets uncomfortable. Just as the BIble is filled with amazing, loving teachings, it is also filled with very unpleasant things (death, war, Satan, judgment) I don 't know how to put this next line politely, so bare with me: there is always the don't click on my threads option, instead of getting on mine (in which you don't do this) and saying its a waste of time, while wasting your time on my thread just to type it.

And finally my point was simply, WHERE (please, it's my hand out for maybe a reboot in thought) does it say we use an actual cross as a symbol for Him? Scripture? You see, that symbol came from us, (actually the Romans) because it's use everywhere didn't come until AFTER He gave us scripture and long after He went on the cross---- I know no scripture that pushes it use.

See my signature below...I really believe that.

God Bless man, I'm really am sorry that you are thrown off by my posts.
 
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MissCris

Guest
#20
Welllll....
It's amazing how fast a thread can go from- ok, it was apparently a touchy topic to begin with, so it's really no wonder it got heated.

As for wearing crosses...

I have no reason to think there's anything wrong with it. Scripture doesn't say anywhere "Wear this cross in remembrance of me" or anything like that, but then, nowhere in the Bible does it say "Do not wear a cross necklace because it then becomes an idol" (or, you know, any variation thereof).

If a person wears the symbol of a cross because they, in some form or another, worship the cross- of course that's a problem.
But wearing a cross because it reminds me of the great love, the enormous sacrifice my Lord made for me? Where is the issue with that?