I wonder...

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Relena7

Guest
#41
@ Julliana, in light of that info, I'll try not to let it bug me so much. :eek: I figured they weren't like that in real life. I guess I just don't understand how that kind of kidding can be funny.

In regards to the original topic.... I guess women's lust issues aren't as well known to men in the public partly for safety. Because we [women] have to be extra careful with that sensitive info. We lust, but it can be dangerous for a woman to be as open about her sexual side as a man in society. Especially in any detail. That info can be taken advantage of by creepers or stalkers.

Not to mention, sometimes that stuff just isn't as special when it's shared. You want to keep that to yourself and only share it with that one special person. Since men are wired differently, it's more common for them to be obvious about it.

If that silence of that personal side means some men think women don't lust, then so be it. That's their own naivety. :p
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#42
I would agree that there are guys out there who will, indeed, take advantage of women given this information. I suppose my point in bringing it out in the open HERE is that, hopefully, christian brothers are wired differently and will appreciate knowing that what may seem harmless to them, really isn't. And maybe...just MAYBE...they can discourage other guys from doing it as well. :) We read SOOOOOOOOO MUCH about what they go through...perhaps they need to know there's a flipside.

P.S. - We don't need to think for a moment that women are above taking advantage of a man's lustful nature. If we're going to be fair, we need to BE fair and honest, right? :)
 
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adekruif

Guest
#43
I would agree that there are guys out there who will, indeed, take advantage of women given this information. I suppose my point in bringing it out in the open HERE is that, hopefully, christian brothers are wired differently and will appreciate knowing that what may seem harmless to them, really isn't. And maybe...just MAYBE...they can discourage other guys from doing it as well. :) We read SOOOOOOOOO MUCH about what they go through...perhaps they need to know there's a flipside.
Which begs the question (for me) what are things that guys do that aren't harmless? I've come to realize some girls REALLY don't understand the way they dress affects guys. There certainly has to be things that guys do that some/most guys don't know effect girls.
 
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violakat

Guest
#44
Which begs the question (for me) what are things that guys do that aren't harmless? I've come to realize some girls REALLY don't understand the way they dress affects guys. There certainly has to be things that guys do that some/most guys don't know effect girls.
For one thing, don't toy with a girls emotion. I'm sure there are others things, just can't think of it now.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#45
I'm glad you asked, as THIS is the point of this thread.

First of all, we know men are visual. Women, for the most part, are not, but CAN BE. So, it is just as important for men to dress modestly. How many guys do you know who think there's no harm in a guy running around shirtless or in tight jeans?

Secondly, men SAY they want modest christian ladies, but what happens when there is a room full of modest christian ladies and ladies who are not dressed as modestly? Where does the attention of the guys go? Ladies are paying attention when that happens and it negates everything guys say about wanting us to dress modestly when it does. And it WILL pretty much every time...

Who gets asked out? The modestly dressed, quiet spirited girl described by Peter and Paul? Or the girl who dresses in a way she knows will get male attention (which is what I meant when I said that women know how to use the lustfulness of men against them). When women see this, will they continue to believe men want them to dress modestly?

Some men think they are somehow complimenting women when they make remarks about a woman's body parts. If that woman is a modest christian woman, this can lead to issues that can make her uncomfortable in the presence of her spouse at some point, as she may feel she doesn't...umm..stack up. I've known women where this alone has lead to marital issues due to the woman having hangups that interferred with her marital intimacy.

I'm going to be perfectly honest right here and say that I stopped playing volleyball in jr high because of comments guys made about my body from the bleachers that they THOUGHT I would deem as flattering in some way, but because of my faith and modesty, only served to make me self-conscious and shy before I married a man who knew how to respect a lady.

Those very same comments can have the exact opposite affect on a young woman who is starved for attention at home. She may indeed find them flattering and may be convinced that guys are actually complimenting her or even CARE about her in some way. And may go from guy to guy to guy mistaking lust for love, as in what Oncefallen's mom told him.

Some things guys say to women can lead them to wonder about things they would never have on their own. I don't want to be more specific than that. Mull that one over on your own.

I guess what I'm trying to get to is this, while men are tempted by what we wear, women can be DEEPLY affected by a man's reaction to them, whether that reaction is positive or negative. It's important that your words match your deeds. If you want to marry a modest, quiet spirited woman, then DATE THEM, not every other little hottie that comes alone in the meantime. If you are bothered by what women wear and want ladies to dress in more modest ways, then PROVE IT by focusing your attention on THEM rather than obviously drooling over the woman who knows what she has and knows how to flaunt it.

Women are taught that there are women men date and women men marry. We know that some guys will say anything to get what they want and we'll be stuck with the aftermath. That's why we're watching so closely. A man's actions are FAR more important to a woman than his words. We've heard the songs many times. We want to know you mean them.

I'm sure there are women out there who aren't thrilled about my honesty. Maybe some men too. But I've never been into games much and the man vs women thing gets a little old sometimes. At some point, communication needs to break out in a respectful way.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#46
When I read back through my last post I realized that it might not make much sense and that it read more like a rant.:( I only had a limited amount of time. Sorry about the typos and improper use of “affect”. :/ Maybe it would help to just come right out and say what, as my gramma woulda said, “put the bee under my bonnet”. :D

A couple of weeks ago I was talking on Facebook with a friend about a certain exercise program I recommend to those who want to see drastic results within a very short period of time. Silly me, I posted a photo of myself in an outfit (that I had intentionally requested be altered to be more modest than it initially was) from a dance studio where I have been teaching in my spare time for the past couple of years. The POINT was that I wanted HER to see the results of the program I was recommending so she’d know that, even though it was really tough, it WORKED. BUT….what happened was that I received a bunch of comments from guy friends that I’m sure they intended to be very flattering, but because of my walk with the Lord, those comments made me feel so awkward that I took the picture down. The conversation was supposed to be about health and exercise, not my body… And I’m going to go a step further and say that it made me feel differently about those guys and more hesitant to interact with them.

If I was not a Christian woman, I might have taken those comments the wrong way and one of two things might have happened:

- I might have thought one of the guys was truly interested in ME, rather than the photo and learned later on that it was all about the picture..

- I might have been one of those women who realized the power women have over men in this regard, used it to go after some guy I was interested in, only to become a victim in the long run in my stupidity.

The scriptures tell us:

“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.” – Matthew 10:16

What you don’t know CAN hurt you, whether you are male or female. The games that even Christians play with one another in this regard have serious consequences. Both men and women need to be aware of this. I wasn’t until about a year and a half ago, and I’ve been around the block a time or two. It’s been a real eye opener and I’m hoping this post can help both men and women protect themselves.
 
Feb 10, 2008
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#47
Wow, thank you for redirecting this thread. I feel quite ashamed now, because I know I am guilty of complimenting women on their bodies. I certainly don't intend it the way you [women?] take it. I have always been of the opinion that I should consistently compliment those around me. I do enough critiquing naturally, that I truly believe that I need to intentionally, and often, temper that with the good I see.

It seems like I could put up a defense, but I'm afraid it would simply boil down to "oh hey, it's somehow different when I say it." In my experience when you catch yourself in this mindset, it really isn't true.

So then I guess I turn this around on you. How can a man compliment a woman? How can we pre-emptively reassure her that she isn't fat? Is it simply avoiding statements like "hey nice [arrangement of pool balls]" or "Look at that [donkey]"? Or is it more than that? Legs? Arms? Shoulders? Hair? Lips? Nose? Where do you draw the line? Does it change if you're in public? In private?

Combining a couple of your threads... How do you react when a girl is fishing for compliments about her body? Whether said, or not, a guy will know. Maybe out of interest, maybe out of lust, maybe just personality (and do it with all independent of gender). Should he lie? Deflect with humour?

Grrr, too many questions! How dare you open the female psyche like this. :)
 
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violakat

Guest
#48
Oh the inevitable, "Does this dress make me look far?" Just say, you look beautiful. Women really only want assurance that she is beautiful when she asks that. However, is she asks, "Does this look okay on me?" She may not be certain that the outfit flatters her. Thus another risky comment may come out of your mouth.
 
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Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
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#49
I'm really glad that I read ALL of the new posts prior to having made a smart aleck reply to one of Jullianna's earlier posts since the thread has returned to being serious.

I've made this comment literally dozens of times in different conversations in the past few months. The church today is missing the admonition given by Paul in Romans 12:22. I really like the way the NLT renders this verse, "
Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." It seems to me that in recent generations christians have adopted more and more of the world's behaviors with the rationalization that, "it isn't that bad." Recent statistics show that the majority of christian teens no longer believe in absolute truth. As the world takes a slide down a greased pole morally, the church is following it.

It is entirely possible tell a woman that she is beautiful without calling out body parts, shapes, sizes, etc. In my opinion comments such as, "wow, you've got great legs" (most examples I just can't put here) only shows where a man's focus has been, and reduce a woman to being a mere object of beauty rather than a sister in Christ that is sooooooo much more than the earthly shell she happens to live in here. A man's focus should be above the neckline and most comments about what is below that point should be reserved for her husband to make. Call me a prude or old fashioned if you like, but I see absolutely NOTHING beneficial to either person when a man reduces a christian sister to nothing more than body parts and his own mind to it's basest desires.

Men, how would you feel about another man making the comments that you make to women to your sister, daughter, mother, or wife? The woman you are talking to is your sister in Christ, a daughter of the King, and the bride of Christ. Treat her accordingly.






 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#50
Wow, thank you for redirecting this thread. I feel quite ashamed now, because I know I am guilty of complimenting women on their bodies. I certainly don't intend it the way you [women?] take it. I have always been of the opinion that I should consistently compliment those around me. I do enough critiquing naturally, that I truly believe that I need to intentionally, and often, temper that with the good I see.

It seems like I could put up a defense, but I'm afraid it would simply boil down to "oh hey, it's somehow different when I say it." In my experience when you catch yourself in this mindset, it really isn't true.

So then I guess I turn this around on you. How can a man compliment a woman? How can we pre-emptively reassure her that she isn't fat? Is it simply avoiding statements like "hey nice [arrangement of pool balls]" or "Look at that [donkey]"? Or is it more than that? Legs? Arms? Shoulders? Hair? Lips? Nose? Where do you draw the line? Does it change if you're in public? In private?

Combining a couple of your threads... How do you react when a girl is fishing for compliments about her body? Whether said, or not, a guy will know. Maybe out of interest, maybe out of lust, maybe just personality (and do it with all independent of gender). Should he lie? Deflect with humour?

Grrr, too many questions! How dare you open the female psyche like this. :)
I think I may know how you feel, Lightning. That's exactly how I felt after I realized how stupid it was for me to have put that pic up on Facebook. :rolleyes: That was MY fault. I should have known better, but my mind was on exercise and I wasn't thinking about how other people might look at it.

Okay so..how can you compliment a woman?

THE DON'Ts:
1. If it would bother you to hear a guy say something to your mom or your sister, don't say it to another woman
2. The very body parts that christian guys say we need to keep covered up would be the parts you shouldn't be remarking upon, unless you are the woman's doctor or personal trainer. :)

THE DOs:
You can compliment her on her modesty, her voice, her intelligence, a dress that you think is pretty, a color she looks nice in, a fragrance she is wearing, jewelry, shoes, her taste in things, the way she handles herself in certain situations. There are plenty of non-body part things a guy can compliment a lady on. :)

Frankly, I think a woman should be smart enough to realize that if a guy has a problem with her build, he wouldn't be with her in the first place, so I can't imagine the need for affirmation regarding her weight.

There are TWO body parts that women DO like to be complimented on: hair and eyes. I don't know why we like it. We just like it. Maybe we're just thankful the guy's eyes made it up that far. :) It says a lot. :)

When you are close enough to a woman to become her husband, your conversation will become more intimate. The difference is that by that time you will hopefully have shown her that you cherish her for the woman she is and your interest is in far more than her body parts.

Open respectful communication is soooooooooooo important for a healthy marriage. Adam and Eve were naked with one another in the garden and the scriptures say they WERE NOT ASHAMED. God never intended for there to be any awkwardness or discomfort between a man and his wife with regard to intimacy. It's mankind's perversion of what God intends for good that makes us ashamed to talk about these matters. People need to grow up and realize this.

The sort of woman who fishes for compliments about her body parts, ESPECIALLY the parts common decency dictates be covered, is not a woman you want to continue a conversation with. The questions will only go downhill from there, and so will her behavior. Guaranteed. RUN. Rest assured that you're not the first guy she's asked and probably won't be the last.

As for opening up the female psyche, I think it's long overdue. Maybe if fewer of us would answer men's questions in honest, respectful ways, we would see fewer guys creating threads about visiting sites they should never have gone to looking for answers. We can't gripe about being misunderstood if we aren't willing to help others understand.
 
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Feb 10, 2008
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#51
No no no Viola! You gotta answer it before its asked! That's the question! Not how to answer it after it's asked! If it's asked, it's already toooooooo late!
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#52
This kind of disrespectful joking doesn't seem like it belongs on a christian forum. :( Don't you think this might give new seekers in faith a bad impression of christian men? Major ouch you guys.
I WASN'T JOKING.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#53
hahahahahahahaahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Feb 10, 2008
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#54
Too much laughing, time to make things serious again! Some people's kids... shakes head.

Well, to throw another wrench into the works here. What if you ask a woman what she would most want to be complimented on. What do you think the answer would be? Maybe that's worthy of its own thread, hmmmm.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#55
The best compliment I get from most guys,the one that touches me more deeply than I can say, is this one: " You are such a LADY".

You can't beat that one with ANYTHING in my book because it's not easy and I don't always get it right. But hearing this from a guy I respect makes me want to pick myself up and keep fighting the good fight.
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#56
Fine, NO MORE HUMOR!!!!!!!!!!! Some of you are seriously stiffer than a board made of petrified wood!!

Out of 3 pages of posts, you guys can't handle TWO that try to be funny!! SERIOUSLY FOLKS!
 
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Aug 2, 2009
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#57
You're probably just jealous because people pay more attention to my funny posts than they do to yours.

Have a nice day!
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#59
Well, somebody has to be the adult in the room. :p
So you're saying that being an adult = having no sense of humor. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!

Ask yourself this...who is the one who can't take a joke or two?????
 
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violakat

Guest
#60
tsk, tsk, boys, now really. You need to stop fighting for Julianna's attention. She will give you each the amount of attention you need in due order.