Sex before marriage: a poll

[selfdissolving]

The problem is not sex but marriage. What is marriage? Marriage is not what many think.

Marriage as per God is on the basis of "..when two or three agree, God is in their midst (as a witness)..." And specifically when a man is bound to a woman through love, when the two agree to be together. Marriage is not a wedding- weddings are traditions of men that is mostly applied in place of God's law and are generally evil in this end times.

A boyfriend and a girlfriend are already married as long as they agree to be together and consummate their marriage with sex. This makes your poll null and void because your idea of marriage is different from what God has said. Garden of Eden is a perfect example of marriage and was overseen by God. So, a marriage is overseen by God only; the reason God says "...let no man separate what God has joined..."

Therefore:
1. Breaking up with a girlfriend or boyfriend is divorce
2. Weddings and marriage certificates or divorce certificates do not mean anything positive spiritually but only serve to fulfill the law of the land (statutory). But let's be careful even as we give Caesar what belongs to him lest we forget God because weddings have become an oath taking/promise making ceremonies yet we have no control of the future. Jesus said it is evil.

I disagree.

We must take the historical context of the Scriptures into account. In ancient Hebrew culture a man and woman would be betrothed to each other, which was similar to an engagement. They were "promised" to each other. In fact, it was the parents of the groom who would choose a bride for the son. They would often choose a bride who would fit well in the family, since the bride would come to live with her new husband in his fathers household. After the period of betrothal was ended, the marriage ceremony would take place which consisted of the bride and his friends making their way through the city to the bride's fathers house. He would scoop his bride up and then the marriage procession would return to the grooms fathers house to the place the groom had prepared for his bride. They would then enter the marriage chamber and consummate the union. After the union was consummated there was a wedding feast. All of these things are extremely symbolic of the union of Christ and his Church. I'm sure you can start to pick up on the symbolism.

Even though God did not ordain these traditions directly in the Scriptures, they are still valid given the historical context of the times in which Jesus lived. This is why Jesus makes so many references to marriage in the Bible. Jesus was familiar with marriage customs of his time and used them as symbols to display a deeper truth. In fact, the entirety of marriage symbolizes the deeper truth of the nature of the relationship of Jesus and his Bride.

John 14:2-4
In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.” (this is exactly the custom of the groom preparing a place for his bride in his fathers house during the betrothal period)

He also uses wedding themes in many of his parables. I won't list them all here, but it's obvious that he was talking about a festive and ceremonious occasion in which two people were joined in a holy union before God.

Also, you took Matthew 18:20 out of context. Here is the preceding verses in order to establish context,

Matthew 18:15-20
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

Besides, it says two OR three. How can three people be married?

If Jesus understood the marriage customs of ancient Israel and the people he taught during his ministry understood them, we should aim to understand them too.

In conclusion: historical context.

 

[UnderGrace]

A boyfriend and a girlfriend are already married as long as they agree to be together and consummate their marriage with sex.

Boyfriend and girlfriend is not equivalent to husband and wife.

Then Isaac brought Rebekah into her mothers tent, and 'took her', 'in love', and she became his wife.
Genesis 24:67.

 

[Tommy379]

Jay walking will get you a one way ticket to hell also.

 

[Solemateleft]

Very interesting CC discussion and polling; which collectively is intriguing of itself - especially given yesterday's deep discussions on "Loneliness"...

"I find that we are all such sinners that it is better to leave the judging to God." Mahatma Gandhi
"Hate the sin, love the sinner." Mahatma Gandhi

"Nowhere in the Bible, however, do we find God distinguishing between levels of sin. God doesn't share our rating system. To him, all sin is equally evil, and all sinners are equally lovable." Judah Smith

"Sinners judging sinners for sinning differently." unknown
"A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints." Pauline Phillips (aka Dear Abby)

"Single, married, engaged, divorced whatever... we're all sinners and all saved by Christ's grace.
The illumination that marriage gives of Christ's redemption is one that I'd like to apply to my life as a single person.
Not dreading the inevitable storms of marriage, but taking joy from the fact that the same redemption I'll be receiving in marriage is what I'm receiving now!" Lindsay Debak

I do commend Seoulsearch's approach to expanding the polling questions in an effort to capture the breadth of the response space and ensuring the questions are written in a consistent, independent and objective manner to limit the potential for biasing the plausible responses...
I hypothesize that the context, wording and limited number of questions provided in the poll - have inadvertently (or otherwise) resulted in a 'false-positive' or a false level of confidence in the perceived outcome...

 

[Noose]

I disagree.

We must take the historical context of the Scriptures into account. In ancient Hebrew culture a man and woman would be betrothed to each other, which was similar to an engagement. They were "promised" to each other. In fact, it was the parents of the groom who would choose a bride for the son. They would often choose a bride who would fit well in the family, since the bride would come to live with her new husband in his fathers household. After the period of betrothal was ended, the marriage ceremony would take place which consisted of the bride and his friends making their way through the city to the bride's fathers house. He would scoop his bride up and then the marriage procession would return to the grooms fathers house to the place the groom had prepared for his bride. They would then enter the marriage chamber and consummate the union. After the union was consummated there was a wedding feast. All of these things are extremely symbolic of the union of Christ and his Church. I'm sure you can start to pick up on the symbolism.

Even though God did not ordain these traditions directly in the Scriptures, they are still valid given the historical context of the times in which Jesus lived. This is why Jesus makes so many references to marriage in the Bible. Jesus was familiar with marriage customs of his time and used them as symbols to display a deeper truth. In fact, the entirety of marriage symbolizes the deeper truth of the nature of the relationship of Jesus and his Bride.

John 14:2-4
In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.” (this is exactly the custom of the groom preparing a place for his bride in his fathers house during the betrothal period)

He also uses wedding themes in many of his parables. I won't list them all here, but it's obvious that he was talking about a festive and ceremonious occasion in which two people were joined in a holy union before God.

Also, you took Matthew 18:20 out of context. Here is the preceding verses in order to establish context,

Matthew 18:15-20
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

Besides, it says two OR three. How can three people be married?

If Jesus understood the marriage customs of ancient Israel and the people he taught during his ministry understood them, we should aim to understand them too.

In conclusion: historical context.

You are right but my point is, God's view of marriage is very simple - a man shall leave his parents and be enjoined to a woman and the two shall be one.

Q. In what ways does a boyfriend/Girlfriend (of the right age of course) relationship fail to meet this criteria?

I totally understand why weddings and all these traditions were recommended; to publicize the marriage and bring discipline around married people and those that are not married. Like i'm not supposed to go around misbehaving with someone's wife if it was already publicly declared that she is now someone's wife.

But weddings have been turned into oath taking and promise making ceremonies nowadays. I believe this is the reason satan is attacking many marriages. Jesus said:

Matt 5:33“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

 

[EmilyFoster]

Hi there! I feel it’s vital for dating and engaged couples to establish clear limits and guidelines in the area of their physical relationship so that passion doesn’t have an opportunity to cloud their judgment. I recently came across this reading and found it helpful on this topic: bit.ly/2MIFN28.

 

[PyongPing]

@PyongPing

Show me where scripture teaches otherwise

Deals with God uniting the heart/mind.

Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.​

Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;​

Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.​

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.​

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.​

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.​

Flesh comes later:

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.​

Even 'at the altar (or wherever)' so to speak, the presiding minister does not say, "Now do it right here' and you're married.

Yet, the two are married before ever dealing with the intimate phsyical. It is at "I do (will)", with witnesses.

There are also people that have been married, that have never been intimate physically, for whatever reasons (courtly, physical defect, death, etc)

 

[Adstar]

"You've been wonderful so far and it's more than I hoped for..."

Billy Joel : The Longest Time..

 

[UnderGrace]

Deals with God uniting the heart/mind.

Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.​

Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;​

Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.​

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.​

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.​

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.​

Flesh comes later:

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.​

Even 'at the altar (or wherever)' so to speak, the presiding minister does not say, "Now do it right here' and you're married.

Yet, the two are married before ever dealing with the intimate phsyical. It is at "I do (will)", with witnesses.

There are also people that have been married, that have never been intimate physically, for whatever reasons (courtly, physical defect, death, etc)

Exactly stated right here..... One flesh is marriage and it starts with sex. It is only because society has made sex something it is not that this understanding is lost.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Scripture is clear marriage from God's perspective begins with the physical union not with "I do"

If their is no consummation they are not married according to what God states is the union of marriage

Then Isaac brought Rebekah into her mothers tent, and 'took her', 'in love', and she became his wife.
Genesis 24:67.

Deut. 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Sex releases the hormones for both men and women that bind them together, scientific fact.

God defines marriage because He designed the the human body for marriage.

 

[PyongPing]

Exactly stated right here..... One flesh is marriage and it starts with sex.

You are carnal minded. "One flesh" refers to being "one body", as Christ and the church (bride, woman). The man the head, the woman the body. I gave you examples of marriage that had/have no such thing as physical union, and are still marriage.

I gave you the example that Adam did not "kn[o]w" Eve until later (Gen. 4). Thus as Gen. 2 says, future tense (shall be)

You are confused.

I never stated that physical union was not included in a normal healthy marriage. You are confused here as well.

You are also confused in regards Isaac,

Gen 24:67 And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.

It was the Father's (Abraham and Bethuel (& Laban-brother)) who arranged the marriage (having fatih in God's choice), through the servant, having the approval of the parents (thus witnesses), from the previous verses.

Gen 24:3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:

Gen 24:4 But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.

Gen 24:37 And my master made me swear, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife to my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, in whose land I dwell:

Gen 24:38 But thou shalt go unto my father's house, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son.

Gen 24:40 And he said unto me, The LORD, before whom I walk, will send his angel with thee, and prosper thy way; and thou shalt take a wife for my son of my kindred, and of my father's house:

Gen 24:44 And she say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the LORD hath appointed out for my master's son.

Gen 24:50 Then Laban and Bethuel answered and said, The thing proceedeth from the LORD: we cannot speak unto thee bad or good.

Gen 24:51 Behold, Rebekah is before thee, take her, and go, and let her be thy master's son's wife, as the LORD hath spoken.

The moment the Father's agreed (Exodus 20:12), and so also the brother (under God's direction (Exodus 20:12), providence), and the exchange of the dowry (gifts), it was marriage.

Gen 24:47 And I asked her, and said, Whose daughter art thou? And she said, The daughter of Bethuel, Nahor's son, whom Milcah bare unto him: and I put the earring upon her face, and the bracelets upon her hands.

Gen 24:48 And I bowed down my head, and worshipped the LORD, and blessed the LORD God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master's brother's daughter unto his son.

Gen 24:51 Behold, Rebekah is before thee, take her, and go, and let her be thy master's son's wife, as the LORD hath spoken.

There was the witnesses and wedding feast:

Gen 24:53 And the servant brought forth jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment, and gave them to Rebekah: he gave also to her brother and to her mother precious things.

Gen 24:54 And they did eat and drink, he and the men that were with him, and tarried all night; and they rose up in the morning, and he said, Send me away unto my master.

Gen 24:55 And her brother and her mother said, Let the damsel abide with us a few days, at the least ten; after that she shall go.

And the agreement of the Rebekah herself, the "I do":

Gen 24:57 And they said, We will call the damsel, and enquire at her mouth.

Gen 24:58 And they called Rebekah, and said unto her, Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go.

Gen 24:60 And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.

Gen 24:61 And Rebekah arose, and her damsels, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man: and the servant took Rebekah, and went his way.

You are ignorant of the scriptures, and of the marriage. You are carnally minded.

The two see each other. This is the heart and acceptance of God's will in their life:

Gen 24:63 And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming.

Gen 24:64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel.

Gen 24:65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.

Gen 24:66 And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done.

The physical act comes last.

Gen 24:67 And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.

 

[PyongPing]

God defines marriage because He designed the the human body for marriage.

The human body, glorified, is not to be married in the way in which you state:

Mat_22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mar_12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

The body of the resurrection is as Jesus' own:

Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Yet, the true marriage of Christ to the bride (church) will exist forever, and Jesus will remain "one flesh" (same human nature) with us forever.

You are confused.

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

1Co_15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Gen_2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

 

[PyongPing]

Deut. 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

That was not pure marriage, but a thievery (Exodus 20:15), which was found out, and thus to save them both, they were united as husband and wife.

Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

It was to save them from death. This is not the perfect situation (but emergency situation), having had the approval of the parents first and God (without which is Theft (Exodus 20:15) and robbery in several ways).

You are confused again.

It would be the same as if two persons (Male and female) had come together today, without being married, and the parents found out, and instantly had a "shot-gun" wedding.

 

[PyongPing]

Exactly stated right here..... One flesh is marriage and it starts with sex.

No.

Case in point.

Joh_4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

The man this woman was shacking with, was "not" her husband. They were not "married" though living/sleeping together. Who said that? Jesus said it.

The woman also said it:

Joh 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.

Joh 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:

That you are so adamant, makes me begin to think.

Please repent of your error, correct your thinking.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Haven't read through this thread, just skimming the last several posts... wouldn't verse 65 ("veil...covered herself") be describing more the betrothal period, and then verse 67 ("became his wife") be the marriage itself (i.e. "union")? Even with "Christ and the Church," it shows first a meal, then a betrothal period (2Cor11:2), then the marriage itself (with "Bride/Wife [singular]")... THEN "the wedding feast/supper [/meal]" (with "guests [plural]," etc).

 

[Yama]

Go for Gold. Literally fish spawning in the ocean right now without marriage certificates as you contemplate this asinine point. Prohibiting sex out-side of marriage is just an age old way of controlling social dynamics and relationships- it's not relevant. It don't matter - if God were real I am sure he'd have many more important things he'd like you to actually be concerned with and I am sure he'd have many more things he'd like to be concerned with.

 

[UnderGrace]

if God were real

I am thinking you are not real.

 

[Yama]

I am thinking you are not real.

Are we not permitted to be agnostic about it?

 

[UnderGrace]

The human body, glorified, is not to be married in the way in which you state:

Mat_22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mar_12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

The body of the resurrection is as Jesus' own:

Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Yet, the true marriage of Christ to the bride (church) will exist forever, and Jesus will remain "one flesh" (same human nature) with us forever.

You are confused.

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

1Co_15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Gen_2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

I am not referring to the glorified human body. I am referring marriage her on earth.

 

[PyongPing]

I am not referring to the glorified human body. I am referring marriage her on earth.

I am referring to "marriage" and it's defintion as given in scripture, which includes all aspects, not merely a single location.

Rev_21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

sex before marriage

makes a babe in a carriage

a quick fix wedding if Christian you are

no points for love but lust gets the star


haha very funny cute little ditty

sadly though, sin always has its rewards no matter how much 'fun' it is at first

I am sure many can attest to that fact