Sex before marriage follow up. Practical reasons why I dont fornicate

[Liamson]

If I were a bettin' woman, my money would be on the lady who understands Liamson enough to know what it is that he really wants, who will fill his romantic heart and totally blow his mind.

And...I never draw first blood hahaha

Good, cause it would probably be your undoing.

I had no idea this was going on, still. I just can't imagine actually getting that far into a relationship, like all the way. (pun intended) Relationships remind me of Pilgrim's Progress, you can't see the Celestial City but it exists, therefore it is worth pursuing.

Being single is what I'm mostly familiar with. Marriage always feels like a game of Freeze Tag. A bunch of kids run around and one person is it. They tag you and you are stuck however they touched you, until someone else who isn't tagged crawls through your legs. OKAY so maybe this has nothing to do with marriage. Then again, maybe I should just admit that I have no idea what I'm actually talking about.

 

[GreenNnice]

The pressures of finding the right guy, how ungodly hard is that!

After reading the biblical wisdom straight from scripture regarding submission of woman to man in marriage, from Juliannie, I got NO DOUBT this thread doesn't't need to be one bump away from not staying on the Christian Singles Forum's 1st page. Bravo, bravo, Julieannie, Solomon could not have awakened livelier wisdomic words than you said in your most recent Paulisophically posited post.

Yes, Yes YES, ladies, you MUST pray, pray, pray, and... don't just 'pray' just either, LADIES. Also, as Proverbs 31 says, 'fear' God (in a way that is not being afraid of God himself but of what consequences happeneth when we fail to follow Him and it opens UP the door for sin, which is ALWAYS CROUCHING AT YOUR DOOR. ) AND, do not JUST pray and JUST fear God (to open yourself UP to Godly men eyes and ears), you MUST also delight in doing His good ways for you (Do NOT ever say OH MY GOD as a filler word in the presence of other christian GUYS, for they will deceive you for that weakness, being smooth as the flickering of a forked tongue. )
To find a Godly guy, LADIES, you MUST be leading and living a Lord-led life, LADIES, in natural, stricken, conviction to serve Him, with the fortitude of trust Mary showed God, and, of course, doing that lifesong way of delightfully, prayerfully, trusting God may still not be in God's plan for you marriage-wise.

Yes, yes, YES, submitting to a Godly man will be a marriage so blessed, myladies

 

[xphineasx]

Yes, there are scriptures regarding the submission of women in the church and in the home to men (with which I also agree btw), but this thread is not about that. This thread is about biblical sexual relations. Therefore, the scripture I posted regarding mutual intimate submission is the applicable scripture.

My first inclination was not to respond due to the extreme lack of respect that has been shown in more than one thread here and because I do not want to de-rail this thread and turn it into a thread about submission (when there are tons of those already). However, the submission of my heart to my God requires that I take the time to explain, one time only, what I meant regarding the beauty being a libber steals from women.

Many young women, including myself, are taught that we will somehow be second class citizens if we submit to our husbands. The major oppositions to these seem to be 1. objectification; and 2. professional advancement limitations.

If we marry ungodly men, it's highly probable; not just possible, that this will occur. If we marry truly godly men who are seeking the ways of God as richly as we are, it's a lie straight out of hell.

A godly man who cherishes his wife as Christ cherishes the Church will love her in a way that even ungodly women only dream of. He is a MAN'S MAN who is not intimidated by an intelligent, capable wife. A man you can respect, honor, and, yes, even submit to, without the least hesitation. Or he CAN be if she doesn't get in the way and steal that from him (and, ultimately steal from herself and her children). He will care for you (even though he fully recognizes that you are probably caring for him more than he for you ), protect you in ways you never thought you needed, teach you more than you could imagine wanting to know, fight for you even when you aren't there and don't know it, stand with you regarding the things you believe in and encourage you to be everything you have the potential to be, just as Christ does for the children of God. It's a beauty that is indescribable. I pray you someday know what I mean.

Not only did you imply that you have to be a Christian to be a man respectful to women (which is ridiculous), but you haven't described why submission is at ALL a good thing.

Why submit to someone who is supposed to be your equal?
Does it matter if my master treats me well if I'm still a slave?

 

[xphineasx]

Pogo sticks are fine...I used to have one myself when I was young, but I never used the term while using Jesus' name in vain...

Well, as a man, I don't see anything wrong with submitting my will to another man. I do it all the time right now. My boss, for instance. If I don't submit my will to him, I will be out of a job...But, I know what you're referring to.

We all submit our wills to others. It's part of being human. In a marriage, one person has to be the head. God designed it that men are supposed to be the head of the relationship. If it's reversed, where the woman is the head of the marriage, it usually doesn't work near as well...and if both are the 'heads' of the marriage...well, that's just as bad as if neither is the head. Disaster results.

In today's society, it is painfully obvious what happens when there is not strong leadership. Our society's children are absolutely out of control.

Everyone needs to be a leader AND a follower...to be exclusively one or the other is to go against the way we were designed. In marriages, we are designed to submit and respect, both men and women. To go to the extremes either way is to invite disaster...

What is referred to by 'wives submit to your husbands' is a healthy respect and submission...NOT a blind following and catering to the man's every whim.

I'm pretty appalled that you think women can't be the head of a relationship. Lesbians make it work all the time.
Heck, families with stay at home Dads make it work.

There's no reason why two people can't be equals in a relationship.

 

[xphineasx]

No, I don't. It is God's design. We like to view submission as subservient but thats not what it is. It is not by force it is by choice to allow your man, whom God gave to you as the head of the house to be just that.

Do you rebel against or undermine your boss. or do you follow the rules and guidance that they have given you as authority? Maybe you don't always agree with their final decision but there is a reason they are the boss and not you. Maybe they know some things that you don't, maybe they have paid some dues to get there. When their pans work great do you celebrate in the success or do you wish they had failed? Even If their decisions don't work out so well do you throw it in their face or are you there to help remedy the problem? No matter what you have to submit or you may be out of a J O B.

I praise the Lord in advanced for the day I am granted a husband who will be the head over our house. I am greatful for a man who will be accountable for how we treat each other, raise our kids and provide service for our community. I am so happy to have that leadership when the world wants everyone to be so I N D E P E N D E N T, that they fail to realize they shouldn't, can't and therefor won't, be able to accomplish everything on their own.

Thank you Jesus.

And why can't a woman be the head of a relationship? Why can't man and wife be EQUALS?
This weird, old, archaic, out dated, sexist concept that partners can't be equals is no longer relevant in a modern culture.

 

[xphineasx]

According to your subjective morality? Since there is no intersubjective morality how can I possibly empathize with you?

We probably have very similar morals, since we were raised in similar cultures.

 

[Jullianna]

Not only did you imply that you have to be a Christian to be a man respectful to women (which is ridiculous), but you haven't described why submission is at ALL a good thing.

I didn't say it or imply it, you apparently inferred it.

Why submit to someone who is supposed to be your equal?
Does it matter if my master treats me well if I'm still a slave?

What I DID say, which you apparently skimmed over, is that I would only explain once in obedience to the Lord due to your blatant disrespect for my Lord. Once an explanation has been given, there is no lack of understanding, simply disagreement.

 

[xphineasx]

What I DID say, which you apparently skimmed over, is that I would only explain once in obedience to the Lord due to your blatant disrespect for my Lord. Once an explanation has been given, there is no lack of understanding, simply disagreement.

If your Lord thinks that I can't be my boyfriend's equal then yes, I'll be disrespectful to this character. I don't have respect for people who don't respect my right to be an equal member of society or a relationship.

 

[thimsrebma]

And why can't a woman be the head of a relationship? Why can't man and wife be EQUALS?
This weird, old, archaic, out dated, sexist concept that partners can't be equals is no longer relevant in a modern culture.

Archaic? ... Well, probably. You see God is really old but he is the same today as he was yesterday and will be the same tomorrow. Hust becoause the world accepts different lifestyles doesn't mean that they are right and just in God's eyes.

 

[xphineasx]

Archaic? ... Well, probably. You see God is really old but he is the same today as he was yesterday and will be the same tomorrow. Hust becoause the world accepts different lifestyles doesn't mean that they are right and just in God's eyes.

So...your God is out of date and irrelevant to a modern culture. Because honestly, the idea that I shouldn't be an equal based on my gender is rather insulting.

 

[NukePooch]

I'm pretty appalled that you think women can't be the head of a relationship. Lesbians make it work all the time.
Heck, families with stay at home Dads make it work.

There's no reason why two people can't be equals in a relationship.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, unless you're equating 'not being able to be the head of a relationship' with 'inequality'...which still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I am subordinate and submissive to my boss, but that doesn't mean I'm any less of a man than he is. Two jobs back, my boss was a woman, I was submissive to her, but I was no less of a human. It was my choice to be in that situation...there was no 'master/slave' thing going on. If I am treated wrong, I'll leave. I still have power.

A woman choosing to be the wife of a man has power, even, and especially, if she takes on a submissive role. There is no loss of power...no 'slave' issues.

It's apples and oranges. Godly submission has nothing to do with inequality. Comparing the two makes no sense at all.

 

[xphineasx]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, unless you're equating 'not being able to be the head of a relationship' with 'inequality'...which still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I am subordinate and submissive to my boss, but that doesn't mean I'm any less of a man than he is. Two jobs back, my boss was a woman, I was submissive to her, but I was no less of a human. It was my choice to be in that situation...there was no 'master/slave' thing going on. If I am treated wrong, I'll leave. I still have power.

A woman choosing to be the wife of a man has power, even, and especially, if she takes on a submissive role. There is no loss of power...no 'slave' issues.

It's apples and oranges. Godly submission has nothing to do with inequality. Comparing the two makes no sense at all.

sub·mis·sion/səbˈmiSHən/Noun
1. The action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
2. An act of surrendering to a hold by one's opponent.

Why should I have to do this? To my boyfriend or my husband?
My boss? Sure. They pay me. That's the deal.

But in a relationship? Why on EARTH should I yield to some man's will? Why can we not be equals?

 

[thimsrebma]

sub·mis·sion/səbˈmiSHən/Noun
1. The action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
2. An act of surrendering to a hold by one's opponent.

Why should I have to do this? To my boyfriend or my husband?
My boss? Sure. They pay me. That's the deal.

But in a relationship? Why on EARTH should I yield to some man's will? Why can we not be equals?

Because God said so.

 

[xphineasx]

Because God said so.

Good thing I don't believe in God then. Because that kind of thinking is archaic and offensive. Your God is sexist apparently.

 

[Timofree]

Good thing I don't believe in God then. Because that kind of thinking is archaic and offensive. Your God is sexist apparently.

A great lot of good it's done for Western nations to depart from Gods will.......there are things I don't understand, and wish were different about Christianity, but that has no reflection on Gods reality. It takes humbling to become a Christian, but it's much better to ask questions and deal with any issues once you're a Christian, rather than leaving it.
There are gods out there that better fit this modern world, but Jesus = the way, the truth and the life

 

[grace]

I believe two people can be very equel in a relationship when it comes to the day to day things.

I am not sure what your definition of submission is....but varying definitions may be why this thread now has a tone of hostility to it.

A man is not to *rule* over a woman and cause her to have to ask permission to do anything or go anywhere etc.

That is not biblical submission at all.

Biblical submission is loving one another as you love yourself, and as you want others to love you.
You respect your spouse enough to always strive to be kind, and not degrade them with your words or actions.

You take the time to truly listen (not just hear) what your spouse has to say to you if your opinions vary on a suubject. Any subject. It does not mean you are right, and he is wrong....or that he is right and you are wrong...it just means that you both have opinions that are valuable to you both. That alone should be enough to take time for one another to talk instead of argue. Fighting is not a good means to an end.

True biblical submission is when two people who are serving and seeking after God with all they are, come to a crossroads with something (anything) that NEEDS a decision made on....and they can't agree on it. So, when this happens, after you have given it a decent amount of time to talkl and hear each other out...The husband, as the head of the home, prayerfully takes EVERYTHING into consideration so he can make a decision.

This does not mean that he goes and does what he wants now because he has the *power* to do so. No. It means, that he KNOWS (with head AND with heart knowledge) that his wife trust him enough, to take what she has said and will make a solid, prayerful decision about it.

Even if the decision turns out to not be what she would have herself chosen, she trusts that her husband made the decision out of love and because of what the bigger picture may hold that he decided on through prayer.

This seems to be such a hot issue for so many. We all have areas of submission in our lives all the time. With out bosses, with out parents (if your a minor), with our teachers etc. but when it comes to romantic love...it seems to get some so upset and think that they no longer have an equal footing with their spouse if they are to be submissive in a true biblical fashion. Really sad.

(*puts away my soapbox now*)

Blessings

 

[xphineasx]

A great lot of good it's done for Western nations to depart from Gods will.......there are things I don't understand, and wish were different about Christianity, but that has no reflection on Gods reality. It takes humbling to become a Christian, but it's much better to ask questions and deal with any issues once you're a Christian, rather than leaving it.
There are gods out there that better fit this modern world, but Jesus = the way, the truth and the life

It has done a great lot of good, actually. High standards of living, higher levels of education, and lower levels of poverty have a positive correlation with higher secular levels. The most advanced, modern, safest, cleanest countries in norther Europe are the most secular.

 

[xphineasx]

I believe two people can be very equel in a relationship when it comes to the day to day things.

I am not sure what your definition of submission is....but varying definitions may be why this thread now has a tone of hostility to it.

A man is not to *rule* over a woman and cause her to have to ask permission to do anything or go anywhere etc.

That is not biblical submission at all.

Biblical submission is loving one another as you love yourself, and as you want others to love you.
You respect your spouse enough to always strive to be kind, and not degrade them with your words or actions.

You take the time to truly listen (not just hear) what your spouse has to say to you if your opinions vary on a suubject. Any subject. It does not mean you are right, and he is wrong....or that he is right and you are wrong...it just means that you both have opinions that are valuable to you both. That alone should be enough to take time for one another to talk instead of argue. Fighting is not a good means to an end.

True biblical submission is when two people who are serving and seeking after God with all they are, come to a crossroads with something (anything) that NEEDS a decision made on....and they can't agree on it. So, when this happens, after you have given it a decent amount of time to talkl and hear each other out...The husband, as the head of the home, prayerfully takes EVERYTHING into consideration so he can make a decision.

This does not mean that he goes and does what he wants now because he has the *power* to do so. No. It means, that he KNOWS (with head AND with heart knowledge) that his wife trust him enough, to take what she has said and will make a solid, prayerful decision about it.

Even if the decision turns out to not be what she would have herself chosen, she trusts that her husband made the decision out of love and because of what the bigger picture may hold that he decided on through prayer.

This seems to be such a hot issue for so many. We all have areas of submission in our lives all the time. With out bosses, with out parents (if your a minor), with our teachers etc. but when it comes to romantic love...it seems to get some so upset and think that they no longer have an equal footing with their spouse if they are to be submissive in a true biblical fashion. Really sad.

(*puts away my soapbox now*)

Blessings

You don't see why it's a problem that the woman just has to trust in her husband while he makes the choices?

 

[grace]

I believe the bible to be the true and inspired word of God.

What I have typed out id biblical.

If you are choosing to focus ONLY on those handful of times where there is a differing of opinion to the extent where the decision is urgent and timely, and one has to make the decision, so that goes to the head of the home to make....then that is your choice.

The rest of my post spoke of a couple having wonderful respect and kindness to one another. Having equality. Having great times of communication and love for one another.
In a relationship like that, no, I see no problem submitting to my husband to make the decision and TRUSTING him to prayfully take all things into consideration in doing so.

 

[NukePooch]

sub·mis·sion/səbˈmiSHən/Noun
1. The action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
2. An act of surrendering to a hold by one's opponent.

Why should I have to do this? To my boyfriend or my husband?
My boss? Sure. They pay me. That's the deal.

But in a relationship? Why on EARTH should I yield to some man's will? Why can we not be equals?

You can be equal, it is not the same thing. You're assuming that by becoming submissive in a marriage, that you are somehow relegated to being second-best or lower-class...that is simply not true. Men and women were designed by God to compliment each other. It's the way we were designed as humans. Men generally are happier as the heads of a household, and women generally are happier as they were designed. I am not a wife, and my future wife is not designed to be a husband. I am not a mother, I don't have 'mothering instincts', and my future wife isn't designed to be a father. If I try to fulfill a role in life that I have not been designed to do, there will be issues and problems.

It's interesting that you have no problem submitting to the will of a boss for a few bucks but you have such a problem with submitting to the will of a man you love...To me, it should be the other way...it's less important in a 40 hr/week work relationship than it is in someone I pledge my undying love to for the rest of my life. Submission is not just a one-way street. I am called to submit to my wife in areas that will compliment her strengths and help my weaknesses.
I think it's important to try to not have an immediate knee-jerk response to the thought of submission in a relationship, when it is impossible to not be submissive in many respects in almost every single other human interaction that exists.