Should Married Couples Who Are Able Be the Only Ones to Have Rights to a Biological Child?

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Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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#41
Grrr...can't really share my mind on this one overmuch in this venue.

Interesting topic. I'll think a little bit on it but within the context of marriage there are further options to discuss.


I tried to sum this up earlier in that other thread but I'll just echo this...

"Every man knows what to do with a kicking mule... Right up until he has one of his own."

I could throw out advice all day long, but I'm sure if I were faced with the problem myself then all the advice I blithely gave would be meaningless.
I think we should be careful about armchair advice on this issue if we haven't ever directly dealt with it.

Not to say there is no utility in it but it seems minimal to me.



Adoption though seems similar to being a step-parent. There is certainly honor in it and I admire people that go through that process. Being financially able to do so is a blessing in itself...even fostering children is an option.
 

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
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#42
Thank you so much for taking the time to point this out, Jenny.

Maybe I was misunderstanding, but I was perceiving that this was one of the major moral issues with sperm donation.

It had me wondering what people would say about a woman donating an egg.

I am wondering if people feel donated sperm is wrong because of the harvesting process, what about if a woman donated an egg? Is that wrong too, and why?

Because obviously, women's eggs aren't harvested through masterbation.
I don't think donation is wrong, but as a Christian I would think we would desire to have children in a two-parent situation. A mother and father are essential to well rounded children.

I think adoption is positive. If the biological parents can't care for their child, then adoption is good.

I think you're main problem growing up is that you weren't surrounded by people who looked like you - ie you were a different race than your parents.

I'm not altogether sure that's positive for children, as you probably know. However, you grew up in a supportive and loving home with all your needs met - which is better than what you may have otherwise had for real so you can't complain too much.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#43
Adoption though seems similar to being a step-parent. There is certainly honor in it and I admire people that go through that process. Being financially able to do so is a blessing in itself...even fostering children is an option.
This is an interesting statement -- I've never thought of it this way.

I've known many adoptees in different situations -- some had families in which they wanted to keep the adoption a secret and pass the child off as their own; others used adoption as a way to keep a distance or excuse any unwanted behavior.

I remember a girl I went to church camp with who was a pastor's daughter, and I have no idea why, but she swore like a sailor. I don't know how or why she picked it up. And we were only kids, like maybe 12 years old.

But I do very distinctly remember everyone giving their explanation as to why: "Oh, well you know, SHE'S ADOPTED," I heard the adults say, as if that explained away everything. Bad blood you know. Nothing the poor parents could do.

I also knew another family with several adopted children and the grandfather always made the point to out the difference, referring to either "my grandchild," or, "my ADOPTED grandchild."

I am very blessed in that my own parents have never seen or treated me as anything but their very own child. But it's not a cure-all for everything, nor is it unique to adopted families, as many biological families go through similar issues with different labels.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#44
I think adoption is positive. If the biological parents can't care for their child, then adoption is good. I think you're main problem growing up is that you weren't surrounded by people who looked like you - ie you were a different race than your parents. I'm not altogether sure that's positive for children, as you probably know. However, you grew up in a supportive and loving home with all your needs met - which is better than what you may have otherwise had for real so you can't complain too much.
Hi Hazel,

I was adopted through Holt International Children's Services, which was founded by Harry and Bertha Holt. They were a simple farming couple who had made millions through their hard work, but in any photo, they are dressed like peasant farmers because they never forgot their roots. They were Christians who felt like God was calling them to rescue orphans from the Korean War. Although they already had 6 biological children, they adopted 8 Korean children and still felt the need to do more, so they used their resources to build Holt International.

The adoptions didn't come easy, as I've read that it took an act of Congress to allow them to adopt their children. People accused them of trying to obtain free slaves for their farm, or talked the impossibility of mixing families of different races.

I know you said you're not sure that (children and parents of a different race) are positive for kids, but nowadays it's becoming more and more common, as there are many more mixed-race couples than there used to be. I've been around several mixed families and the kids always get asked, "Are you (the mother's race,) or (the father's race)?" which is completely unfair to the child. They are clearly both.

In a similar fashion, I never even thought about being Korean as a kid unless someone else slanted their eyes at me and I looked in the mirror.

I'm very thankful to have such awesome, amazing parents and definitely know it's a rare blessing. As an adult, I went back to the orphanage I came from in Korea, and it had a huge impact on my life. Seeing the kids there who were waiting for families broke my heart. I was constantly bawling my eyes out.

But your statement to me, "You can't complain too much" because I have good parents is dismissive and condescending. I've been told this a lot in my life, because people see things from the outside and make their judgments from there, without ever having lived it.

Life, and spiritual forces attack us all in many ways, and we all respond differently. I used to write about these things in more detail in the past, but lately I've felt God telling me to hold back a bit, but I do want to ask you to please get to know about people a bit more before brushing away their life experiences.

You could be doing them a huge disservice, and further contribute to their spiraling depression.

At least, those are the effects that such comments as yours have always had on me. Maybe you didn't mean it in a negative way, but some adoptees wind up in the hospital or worse because no one takes their issues seriously, saying the exact same things as you did. It's like saying to anyone who has problems that their problems aren't real or "that bad" because they had such and such, and surely that makes up for it. It's something said far too often that is never very helpful.

I do want to conclude by saying that I personally am extremely grateful for my adoption and see it as a miraculous thing -- I can only speak for myself, as others have very different experiences -- and perhaps the greatest things it has taught me is the power of God's love.

God's love can take people from completely different backgrounds and cultures, on opposite sides of the world, and turn them into family.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#45
thats silly Jesus blood covers us. we are all adopted

not sure why its an issue, Abraham was told he would have many desecendants as many as stars in the sky and sands on the beach. and it wasnt that Sarah had zillions of biological children. The gentiles became part of the blessing too...this kind of adoption was not through BUYING anyone or cloning or reproducing in the flesh but with Jesus blood - it is spiritual

if we cry 'Abba father', we know we have been adopted by the one who loves us.

I would say its more the children have the right to be loved, by the parent and not the parent having the right to the child.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#46
Also recall that Abraham nearly sacrificed his own child so that he could obtain this blessing for mankind
and actually GOd did with Jesus crucifixtion which is why we have the new covenant.

To give up the one thing you love most, requires sacrifice.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#47
All firstborns in the old testament were required to be given to God but God made it that you could sacrifice a lamb or was it goat or two turtledoves instead. (if you were poor)

so even if you had your own child it wasnt really yours it belonged to God. Do people understand this these days? well we are not under the old covenant we are under the new. I am sure if you are a parent you will figure it out that your children require a lot from you. Probably more than you can ever give. That is why you need God to help you.
 

MsMediator

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Mar 8, 2022
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#48
When I was younger I always had a rosy view of adoption...I thought the adoptive parent and adoptee must have a really special bond since they don't have biological links and they are able to look past that. Because of these early views I always thought I would want to adopt later in life. However, later, after some research, I realized that adoption can be more complicated than that. I didn't realize that adopted children want to find or build relations with their biological parents, though they may be curious. I have had a few adopted friends in the past and I think they all handled it differently, ranging from fully accepting the adoptive family, later struggling when find out the story, to one who remains connected with her adoptive family but spends a lot of time with relatives in her home country (she was adopted at around 7 or 8 years old). I know someone who is adopted now and she seems "fine". Of course, I have not discussed "primal wound" with any of them. I think now, with open adoptions and all, I feel there is a lot of risk in adopting because the ties with the biological parents are not cut off. If you read sites like Reddit on adoption, there are no happy stories.
 

Sculpt

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2021
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#49
Hey Everyone,

I didn't want to distract from the very interesting thread that's already going on regarding sperm donation and resulting possible single motherhood, so I thought I'd start a separate thread.

I was particularly interested in the talk about the uniqueness that God puts into every human being's DNA.

I am all too familiar with the issue of DNA in my own way.

Many know my story. I was adopted from Korea to Caucasian parents -- the story goes that I was found in a cardboard box in front of a theater when I was a few days old -- but just a few years ago, I read an article saying that at the time I was born, this was often the fairy tale social workers were instructed to tell prospective parents to soften any unknowns or realities that might have been much harsher (for instance, babies who are literally found in trash dumps because someone has literally thrown them away.)

I can only speak from my own experience, but I grew up with a huge hole in my heart, all due to the subject of DNA. "No, but really, who are your REAL parents?" I am asked constantly, even as an adult. My parents adopted because they were told they could not have biological children, and to many, all the focus seems to be on the missing biological component.

I grew up watching and hearing family members say things about my other relatives like, "Oh, he's tall like Uncle Don was," "She must take after her dad," or "Those kids look exactly like their mother," but when they got to me, they would shrug awkwardly and tell me, "My, how much you've grown!" I haven't gotten any taller since I was probably 13. It's just all they can think of.

And I do understand. But it doesn't make it sting any less.

Now I know this seems like a very simple, everyday thing, but for me, it was a constant source of grief and heartache. Every encounter was always a reminder that I did not belong or fit in, all because I did not have this thing called shared DNA. Fortunately, my parents are wonderful and have always emphasized that I am THEIR child, and that's probably why I didn't fall off the rails completely.

But I always feel like I'm on the outside looking in when I am around biological families who talk about strong resemblances, qualities that were passed down, and similar likes or dislikes. Now of course I know that DNA is no guarantee, and many children turn out to be nothing like their families.

But I have always wondered -- do I look like anyone? Am I am the way I am partially because the people responsible for me being here are, or were that way? Because I am very different from my family. As interesting as the debate of Nature vs. Nurture in developing who we are, I only have one half of the formula. And as the years ticked by and I felt my own window to have at least one child fade into the sunset, it started to hit me that I will never have a biological relative this side of heaven.

I know that DNA isn't everything. But we all long for what we don't have.

I have known two other Korean adoptees who were adopted by single moms (no fathers) and they turned out just fine. In one case, the mother had no interest in sex (I don't know if it was due to abuse or what -- I only know what her daughter, my friend, told me.) Therefore, this woman didn't feel it was right for her to marry (because she didn't want to entrap a man into a situation in which she knew she wouldn't be interested in sex,) and so she decided to adopt a child on her own.

The other thing about adoption is that in almost all cases, even among Christian circles, it is almost always seen as second best. I have known some adoptees who grew up to loathe adoption (because they grew to hate being seen as second best, or a last resort,) and would only accept having biological children themselves as an option. They believed that going on to have their "own" children would provide the missing DNA link they had been searching for all their lives.

I also remember a member we had on the site some time ago who preached that "real Christians" shouldn't adopt, because unless they were your own biological offspring, they were "fake children." (At least, those were the words he used.)

I do feel a hole in my heart knowing I will never a DNA connection. And again, I know it's no guarantee. I know plenty of people with biological relatives they can't stand or don't get along with. But like I said, we all wonder about what we don't have. And now all I can do is know and trust that God is moving me on. (For medical reasons, I know that my window is fully closed.)

And this brings me to a very interesting series of questions on the other side of the sperm donation thread we already have going on.

If masturbation is sinful (which is what I've always been taught, but we've had many here on the site over the years who disagree,) and the only way to produce sperm, I understand why people would believe collections for sperm banks would be wrong.

But then does this mean:

1. That the only people who have a right to biological children are those who can produce them naturally?

2. If a couple is married and one partner can't have children biologically, does that mean this couple has to forfeit the rights to a biological child? If the husband has a low sperm count, or if the wife can't produce viable eggs, does this mean that their only option for children should strictly be adoption and nothing else?

3. And as a flipside to the question about sperm donation, what about the other choices we now have?

4. What if a woman who can't produce eggs herself uses another woman's egg but her husband's sperm? What if her husband's sperm won't create a child, but it could be placed within another woman mechanically? What if the wife just couldn't carry, but their egg and sperm could be placed into the womb of a surrogate mother who was able to carry their child to term?

DNA is undoubtedly one of the most unique things God has created.

But in today's world, who has the rights, or not, to propagate it?
I'm sorry you feel that you feel a hole in your heart about all the adoption issues you've faced, and the thought you won't have the DNA connection of having your own biological child.

You are greatly loved.

Have you ever tried to find your biological parents? I understand today the DNA database(s) is growing all over the world. I guess you'd never know when (or if) one of your parents would signup/complete one of those DNA things.

I don't really have any strong feelings about any of the questions you asked. I've never felt anything surrounding adoption, single-parent adoption, surrogates, extra productive means were "wrong". I've always felt adoption was very good. Just logically, if there are any orphans in the world, then a single-parent adoption seems good. Most people know the father/mother scenario has the best results "statistically", but that's just statistics, every individual case is unique.
 

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
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#50
your statement to me, "You can't complain too much" because I have good parents is dismissive and condescending. I've been told this a lot in my life, because people see things from the outside and make their judgments from there, without ever having lived it.
I do apologize for only now noticing your comment in response to me; it's a very belated response.

I'm sorry that you took what I said as judgement - it wasn't written in that spirit. I just thought it good to end my speaking on a positive note, rather than the negative.

I'm certain being an adoptee has it's own challenges, and I don't mean to belittle those very real challenges but I still see adoption to be a net positive overall. I'd rather see people such as yourself have a home and a family than to see you never born - challenges notwithstanding.
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
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#51
I've always felt adoption was very good. Just logically, if there are any orphans in the world, then a single-parent adoption seems good.
The issue is, most of these kids are not orphans in the real sense. They still have a biological mom and/or dad around somewhere, so I believe that causes more trauma because there may be an urge to search for them.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#52
I do apologize for only now noticing your comment in response to me; it's a very belated response.

I'm sorry that you took what I said as judgement - it wasn't written in that spirit. I just thought it good to end my speaking on a positive note, rather than the negative.

I'm certain being an adoptee has it's own challenges, and I don't mean to belittle those very real challenges but I still see adoption to be a net positive overall. I'd rather see people such as yourself have a home and a family than to see you never born - challenges notwithstanding.

Hi Hazel,

Thank you very much for this reply.

I really appreciate your sensitivity and compassion.

One of the things that's come about in the adoption community over the past several years are when adopted children and parents don't bond, and parents think they have made a tremendous mistake, wishing and sometimes seeking ways that they can legally give the child back. It's something that's always existed but no one was ever allowed to talk about it publicly without being shamed.

I agree that adoption can be part of the solution, but like anything, it has to be treated realistically.

I used to sponsor a little girl who was only about 8 years old and she'd had a terrible time in the adoptive community. She had been adopted once but it fell through (I'm not sure what the reasons were that time,) then another couple adopted her, actually brought her home, but then returned her to the orphanage when they found out they were pregnant with "their own" child. I can't imagine the scars that must leave on a child that young. (This also occurred in another country -- I'm not sure what the laws here in the USA would have dictated.) Even if the couple would have been legally forced to keep her, can you imagine how she would have been treated as someone who was completely unwanted, even though she supposedly had a "home" and "family"?

I'm happy to report though that she did eventually get adopted at around age 10 -- I don't know what happened after that, but I sure hope she found a much happier ending.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,991
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#53
I'm sorry you feel that you feel a hole in your heart about all the adoption issues you've faced, and the thought you won't have the DNA connection of having your own biological child.

You are greatly loved.

Have you ever tried to find your biological parents? I understand today the DNA database(s) is growing all over the world. I guess you'd never know when (or if) one of your parents would signup/complete one of those DNA things.

I don't really have any strong feelings about any of the questions you asked. I've never felt anything surrounding adoption, single-parent adoption, surrogates, extra productive means were "wrong". I've always felt adoption was very good. Just logically, if there are any orphans in the world, then a single-parent adoption seems good. Most people know the father/mother scenario has the best results "statistically", but that's just statistics, every individual case is unique.
Hi Sculpt,

Thanks very much for your encouragement -- I greatly appreciate it.

When I was younger, late teens to 20's, I thought my mental health depended on trying to find my biological parents. I paid somewhere around $300, which at the time, might as well have been $3000 (it was a LOT of money to me at the time,) only to receive a small stack of papers that had no information. I was so heartbroken that I tore them to shreds soon afterwards.

The story goes that I was found in a cardboard box in front of a theater when I was a few days old. Someone apparently found me, took me to the police, who took me to the orphanage (I've been back to the orphanage I came from and cried every night.) I was in a foster home for a few months, and shortly after that, came home to my Mom and Dad in the USA. I know I was one of the very highly blessed ones and I often ask God why it was me and not millions of others. Because of this, sponsoring other children and supporting my adoption agency is very important to me. I want to try to extend a chance to as many others as I can.

It could also be that the story of how I was found was just that -- a mere story -- as I've read that at the time, social workers were told to give these romanticized stories to prospective parents. I get told, "You're just like Moses, except you were found in a box instead of a basket!" Which might -- or might not -- be true.

I've known adoptees who have found biological relatives, both for the good and the bad. I know one girl who went looking and while she's met her mother, she found out that she missed meeting her father because he had died a mere 6 months earlier. Can you imagine? Having to live the rest of your life knowing that you missed meeting your own father by a mere half a year? I know it's possible she could meet him in heaven but Korea is not known for its Christian community. It's not impossible; just unlikely.

Which brings up an even more sorrowful thought -- what is she would have started her search earlier and had the chance to witness to him?

And what if you found out you were the product of a rape, or people who want nothing to do with you? Children are usually not abandoned or given away by loving, happy, married couples.

I don't think I could live with that. So because of stories like this and the fact that the odds would be even worse than trying to find needles in a haystack, I realized I could exhaust all my energy and resources on an impossible search -- or I could pray and ask God to help me accept -- and He has given me the latter.

The way I understand it with DNA testing (and I could be wrong, or different companies might work differently,) but the only way I might "run into someone" is if 1. They sent a test to the exact same company, and there are several of them out there, but you'd have to be in the exact same database; and 2. The other person would have to give their consent to be matched and alerted if a match was found.

I don't know what the rules are on sharing databases or if that's even allowed between companies, but it brings up a whole mess of privacy issues and I decided not to go down that rabbit hole.

I've often said that if I won a large lottery (I don't play, so that won't happen,) but if I did, how many people would claim to be my long-lost relative? It would definitely be interesting to see the results and what the DNA had to say then.

Thank you again for your kind words.

If nothing else, I just hope that God will enable me to help others who are struggling with identity issues too.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,991
4,608
113
#54
The issue is, most of these kids are not orphans in the real sense. They still have a biological mom and/or dad around somewhere, so I believe that causes more trauma because there may be an urge to search for them.
I've met two other Korean adoptees who were adopted by single mothers (one girl's mother had actually adopted 5 girls, each from a different country.) Their mothers had no other children -- they had just always felt called by God to raise children, even though they weren't married.

Both of these adoptees said they never felt like they were missing anything because of not having a father, whether biological or adopted. But I do believe that these are very special cases.

And they were both well-adjusted, lovely Christian women.

One went on to marry (ironically, her husband was yet another Korean adoptee) and have a family; the second, last I spoke to her (which was years ago,) was happily engaged and looking forward to her own marriage and future family.

A long time ago, we used to have a member here who was in her mid-thirties and talked about her experiences with regularly fostering children on her own.

She was a wealth of knowledge, and I really wish she would have stayed, because I learned so very much from her posts.

At one time, I had thought of adopting or fostering on my own, but looking back now, I'm sure it was God who kept me from doing so. Therefore, I try my best to support those who are vulnerable to the system in other ways.
 

Sculpt

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2021
1,068
329
83
#55
Hi Sculpt,

Thanks very much for your encouragement -- I greatly appreciate it.

When I was younger, late teens to 20's, I thought my mental health depended on trying to find my biological parents. I paid somewhere around $300, which at the time, might as well have been $3000 (it was a LOT of money to me at the time,) only to receive a small stack of papers that had no information. I was so heartbroken that I tore them to shreds soon afterwards.

The story goes that I was found in a cardboard box in front of a theater when I was a few days old. Someone apparently found me, took me to the police, who took me to the orphanage (I've been back to the orphanage I came from and cried every night.) I was in a foster home for a few months, and shortly after that, came home to my Mom and Dad in the USA. I know I was one of the very highly blessed ones and I often ask God why it was me and not millions of others. Because of this, sponsoring other children and supporting my adoption agency is very important to me. I want to try to extend a chance to as many others as I can.

It could also be that the story of how I was found was just that -- a mere story -- as I've read that at the time, social workers were told to give these romanticized stories to prospective parents. I get told, "You're just like Moses, except you were found in a box instead of a basket!" Which might -- or might not -- be true.

I've known adoptees who have found biological relatives, both for the good and the bad. I know one girl who went looking and while she's met her mother, she found out that she missed meeting her father because he had died a mere 6 months earlier. Can you imagine? Having to live the rest of your life knowing that you missed meeting your own father by a mere half a year? I know it's possible she could meet him in heaven but Korea is not known for its Christian community. It's not impossible; just unlikely.

Which brings up an even more sorrowful thought -- what is she would have started her search earlier and had the chance to witness to him?

And what if you found out you were the product of a rape, or people who want nothing to do with you? Children are usually not abandoned or given away by loving, happy, married couples.

I don't think I could live with that. So because of stories like this and the fact that the odds would be even worse than trying to find needles in a haystack, I realized I could exhaust all my energy and resources on an impossible search -- or I could pray and ask God to help me accept -- and He has given me the latter.

The way I understand it with DNA testing (and I could be wrong, or different companies might work differently,) but the only way I might "run into someone" is if 1. They sent a test to the exact same company, and there are several of them out there, but you'd have to be in the exact same database; and 2. The other person would have to give their consent to be matched and alerted if a match was found.

I don't know what the rules are on sharing databases or if that's even allowed between companies, but it brings up a whole mess of privacy issues and I decided not to go down that rabbit hole.

I've often said that if I won a large lottery (I don't play, so that won't happen,) but if I did, how many people would claim to be my long-lost relative? It would definitely be interesting to see the results and what the DNA had to say then.

Thank you again for your kind words.

If nothing else, I just hope that God will enable me to help others who are struggling with identity issues too.
I certainly understand your thinking on the DNA issue. I don't know a lot about it, just what I've heard in the news and talking to some folks. Like you were saying, I'd imagine there may be 2-4 companies in S. Korea that have the DNA databases. Today, I don't think are terribly expensive. It sounds like it's important to you. You can be fine with not knowing, but at the same time be ok if God wants you to find out, or meet them, perhaps you could do a little research, make a few phone calls, and see if what companies you could sign up with to cover S. Korea. It might not be that difficult, and it's certainly growing by leaps and bounds.

We just don't know what we don't know. I'm sure you know better than I, but I would think the vast majority of parents felt they couldn't properly take care of their child.

When you went back to your orphanage, were you able to see your file, get it translated, and if it said anything about how you got there? I would guess not, since you still don't know if the box story is accurate.

With all the questions, I wonder if you may be considering adopting a child?
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,991
4,608
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#56
I certainly understand your thinking on the DNA issue. I don't know a lot about it, just what I've heard in the news and talking to some folks. Like you were saying, I'd imagine there may be 2-4 companies in S. Korea that have the DNA databases. Today, I don't think are terribly expensive. It sounds like it's important to you. You can be fine with not knowing, but at the same time be ok if God wants you to find out, or meet them, perhaps you could do a little research, make a few phone calls, and see if what companies you could sign up with to cover S. Korea. It might not be that difficult, and it's certainly growing by leaps and bounds.

We just don't know what we don't know. I'm sure you know better than I, but I would think the vast majority of parents felt they couldn't properly take care of their child.

When you went back to your orphanage, were you able to see your file, get it translated, and if it said anything about how you got there? I would guess not, since you still don't know if the box story is accurate.

With all the questions, I wonder if you may be considering adopting a child?
Hi Sculpt,

One of the issues I'm concerned about with DNA testing is that you don't know who has your information (which will be kept indefinitely,) and what will be done with it. Perhaps you've read about people whose DNA profiles in what are supposed to be "safe" and "confidential" settings, such as for these testing companies, have then actually been used to convict people of crimes, which of course, wasn't supposed to be part of the agreement when they paid money voluntarily to find out their biological heritage.

Now of course, I'm not concerned about being convicted of a crime, but it really made me think of the aftermath of what handing over your most private information might have. I was interested in such tests in the past but now feel a bit more leery about them because of how much data can be manipulated. I've told God that if it's meant to be, He will lead them to find me, because I'm no longer interested in the search.

As I said in my original reply to your post, I came to realize how expensive and emotionally exhaustive searching could be, and I decided it just wasn't worth it to me. I've read about the plight other adoptees spending all they have trying to find a history that continually eludes them, and I decided I didn't want that to be my story. I'd rather concentrate my resources on helping others who are trying to build their own families through adoption themselves.

I also thought about things such as, if I ever did find my biological parents, how awkward that could be. I think most adoptees picture fairytale reunions with flowing tears of joy and huge celebrations of being reunited, but I knew threw my own research that this often wasn't the scenario. Sometimes things are left in the past for a reason. If God wants me to know, I'm sure He'll find a way, and if not, maybe He'll tell me, or even introduce me to my biological relatives in heaven.

You asked about my files in Korea. My adoption agency, Holt International, has Motherland Tours in which adoptees visit their native country. We were able to see our files, and there was no need for translation because they were in English. There wasn't anything in mine that I didn't already know, and yes, at the time, I was very disappointed by that. But not it doesn't really bother me so much.

You asked if I had thought of adopting a child myself.

I've always believed that since I was given a chance, it's important for me (and part of my spiritual duty) to keep the cycle going and continue that for others. I once thought about having 4 children -- 2 by birth and 2 by adoption. My husband at the time said he would want to adopt first in order to give adequate time to demonstrate to our adopted children that they were truly wanted.

I think you might know my story -- our marriage eventually collapsed and I came home from work to a half-empty house, because he had moved out while I was at work without telling me. He didn't even tell me why, but just had the divorce papers sent to me through the mail. I remember getting these papers in my mailbox saying, "You Are Being Sued for Divorce," and feeling like I was having a heart attack. Even remembering that makes me feel like I'm having a bit of a panic attack.

He never talked to me again after our required court date. I found out some time later that he had a girlfriend, and several years later, he had remarried and they had kids.

That was kind of my breaking point. I couldn't understand why God was allowing him to have this and not me (not that I was deserving or anything like that, but I'm sure you can understand what I mean.) I know you might have a host of other questions about all of this but I'd like to leave it here and just move on.

Years later I was in a relationship with an alcoholic who had children. He became unable to care for them, so by default I was pretty much a single parent to them for some time, and for a while, I had thought of adopting them, as their mother had passed away. But it would mean a lengthy and expensive court battle and again, I felt I didn't have the resources for that. In the end, I'm sure that what wound up happening was best. I'd rather not go into the details of all that, but the relationship ended; the kids were young and probably don't remember me; all that mattered is that they wound up safe and loved, and life moved on.

I'm a very open person and used to talk about these things here a lot, but over time, I felt God convicted me because it involves the stories of other people. So, I try to give enough information to answer a question or explain a situation, but also avoid getting too much into the lives of the other people involved.

The years passed by -- if I had started having kids when I had originally "planned," I might very well be a young Grandma today -- and while I had contemplated adopting, I know it all worked out for a reason. God put me in situations over the years in which my main focus had to be other family members, and I couldn't have done that if I'd had a family of my own.

I'm at a stage in life now where I'm looking ahead to retiring, not starting a family, and so I feel my time has passed. But for the most part, God has given me peace about that, and given me an alternate life that's very different from what I had envisioned, but as long as it serves His purpose, I'm much more accepting of that than I used to be.
 

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
609
397
63
USA
#57
Hi Hazel,

Thank you very much for this reply.

I really appreciate your sensitivity and compassion.

One of the things that's come about in the adoption community over the past several years are when adopted children and parents don't bond, and parents think they have made a tremendous mistake, wishing and sometimes seeking ways that they can legally give the child back. It's something that's always existed but no one was ever allowed to talk about it publicly without being shamed.

I agree that adoption can be part of the solution, but like anything, it has to be treated realistically.

I used to sponsor a little girl who was only about 8 years old and she'd had a terrible time in the adoptive community. She had been adopted once but it fell through (I'm not sure what the reasons were that time,) then another couple adopted her, actually brought her home, but then returned her to the orphanage when they found out they were pregnant with "their own" child. I can't imagine the scars that must leave on a child that young. (This also occurred in another country -- I'm not sure what the laws here in the USA would have dictated.) Even if the couple would have been legally forced to keep her, can you imagine how she would have been treated as someone who was completely unwanted, even though she supposedly had a "home" and "family"?

I'm happy to report though that she did eventually get adopted at around age 10 -- I don't know what happened after that, but I sure hope she found a much happier ending.
Some of what you mentioned here, may have something to do with an unrealistic view on the adoptive parents part of what parenting is overall.

When my son was two (really from two to puberty.. lol) my son was so willful and so stubborn I was sure at one point I had given birth to Satan in the flesh... Lol.

A bond? Back then I was just worried how we were getting through the next day with a child who did whatever he wanted regardless... Didn't so much feel bonded to the child.

I was the youngest child in my family, and didn't have much experience with children, and no experience with little boy children especially. So suddenly having one was a shock, let alone one who is to this day more willful than most.

As a grandma I'm great with kids and I know exactly how to get them to mind but as a young parent? Not!

Some people think when they have a child it's just this magical grand adventure and it's really not. In real life it's tough, it's challenging and every child has their own unique personality. Not all sunshine and roses.

What makes it worth it is the seeing the world through their eyes... Not seeing a reflection of self or any other measures people may use.

Most adoption agencies seek to weed out the kind of adoptive parents that would "give back" a child or in any way come to regret their decision to adopt but not every agency or county is as stringent.