The flipside of the question

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J

Jullianna

Guest
#1
#1
I was just reading leelee's thread asking the guys about feisty women. Cool thread, leelee :) Very educational! I didn't want to derail her thread, so I thought I'd make one for the ladies to discuss this topic from our prespective, though the guys are welcome to respond as well. :)

I can understand how guys might be interested in a confident, intelligent and maybe even firey woman because when I'm in a relationship with a guy, I think it's awesome when he has that "I will not be taking any junk from you, young lady" attitude.

I'm not saying that it should be taken to the point of being controlling, abusive or anything like that. That's over the line, but it's important to me for the guy to be the leader in a relationship. I can respect that, and women are called to respect their men scripturally.

I know balance is important and that discussing matters is important, but I also know I would have difficulty respecting a man I could lead around by the nose. That's uncool.

I can't speak for any other women, but when a godly man knows who he is, what he wants and is boldly confident, it doesn't matter what he looks like..THAT gets my attention.
 
leelee

leelee

Senior Member
#2
Sep 5, 2011
1,258
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38
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#2
Thanks :)


I would want someone who could lead me but I would expect him to respect me and to be in a partnership with me, I can be very strong willed and am a leader both in church and by nature so I am not sure I could be led around totally by my man. :)
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#3
#3
I totally get that, leelee! haha :) I'm a very strong woman as well (just in case that's not obvious from most of my posts ;) ). That's why I don't think it would be good for me to be with a guy who would be willing to let me be the boss. I need a guy who will stand his ground in a LOVING way! :D

Usually such men are very levelheaded and have a very positive effect on a woman who can be a bit highspirited (comes with the hair I think...). :)
 
PopClick

PopClick

Senior Member
#4
Aug 12, 2011
4,056
136
63
#4
Hey, Julianna's back! Now I'm off the hook from starting a thread. :D

I know there are many dimensions to "feisty", and this is just one of them.

I hope that guys AND girls want a partner who isn't afraid to tell them when they are wrong. But, as I have pointed out to some of my guy friends, just because a girl is ranting at you, crying, saying how hurt she is, etc... doesn't necessarily mean the guy has done something wrong. There's a big difference between "feisty" and "bratty", in both genders. If somebody has said or done something wrong, I try to make sure it's actually wrong, and just not me being overly sensitive. The best (or maybe only!) way to do that is through prayer. Of course, it's always wise to pick your battles... letting stuff slide is important, too. "If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men."
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#5
#5
Popclick.... first of all! hugs :)

Second..."picking your battles"...so important in relationships of any kind, huh? :)
 
PopClick

PopClick

Senior Member
#6
Aug 12, 2011
4,056
136
63
#6
Hugs back! :D

And yes, with friendships, family, significant others... letting stuff slide is sometimes hard to do, but definitely important. :)

Congratulations on 5,000 posts, as well!
 
K

kayem77

Guest
#7
#7
I was just talking about this with a friend ...there are some things in a man that are BIG turnoffs to me : insecurity, needyness, and lack of confidence. I'm not saying guys should be complete robots ( as some men wrongly take it) , I love when they express their feelings and affection, especially in worship, I just saw one guy today at church worshipping, I can't describe how cute and manly at the same time he looked:) , but... that's another topic haha....anyway, but when that becomes needyness is just a No No. :)

I think there is a balance, with both women and men, and with men I have learned that needyness and insecurity a lot of times lead to abuse, jealousy, and possesiveness. That leads to chaos, and then we wouldn't be working as the partners we are called to be...and for me is essential that my husband knows how to work with me, with us. I wan't to be able to grow spiritually by his side, to be everything God called me to be.

When a man is confident, smart, and knows how to express his feelings without becoming one of 2 extremes, a needy monster or an abusive monster, it expresses maturity. I love a man who can lead and can love, and I know there is no perfect prince, but just the maturity to know the balance is enough to me.
 
C

CC_Bride

Guest
#8
#8
Theres a great line in the novel Pride and Prejudice where Elizabeth's father nearly wets his pants in astonishment that she's agreed to marry Mr Darcy

"Lets me advise you to think the better of it. I know your disposition Lizzy. I know that you could neither be happy nor respectable, unless you truly esteemed (respected) your husband; unless you looked up to him as superior. Your lively talents (personality and pursuits) would place you in the greatest danger of an unequal marriage. You could scarcely escape discredit and misery. Let me not have the grief of seeing you unable to respect your partner in life..."

Pride and Prejudice gives excellent reference on the difference between two women with strong forward characters: Elizabeth and Lydia. Theyre both colourful, affectionate and playful and easily give their opinion on things. Except for the obvious fact that one is rebellious, immodestly flirtacious, forward and has no self control nor respect for herself or her family, whereas the other is self controlled, respectful, modest and humble in her beauty and intelligence. You see the culmination of each of the characters values and personalities as they choose who they marry and how they marry.

What I tell people is, its not a sin to be a 'Elizabeth' but make very sure you marry someone you can respect and submit to as a Christian wife, and without self discipline and godly mentors who you can receive strong advice from, you could easily become a 'Lydia'. Because for a bloke, being married to a 'Lydia' is a misery lol.
 
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S

Stuey

Senior Member
#9
Aug 17, 2009
892
4
18
#9
I feel that 80% of guys that take the 'I'm not taking nonsense from you Lady' approach will be jerks. It may start off at that but I'm thinking it would get worse.

Another point that you girls may wish to consider. Guys are meant to lead, but the way in which we are meant to lead is by laying down our life for others - for our wives as Christ did the church. Now please, we should, but we won't get this right all the time, and maybe not most of the time, but what this will mean is that he should be putting you first.

If he is doing this, say, letting you watch chick flicks with him all the time as opposed to watching football, and you are interpreting it as a sign of weakness and of being able to walk over him, just be very careful...
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#10
#10
CC_Bride said:
Theres a great line in the novel Pride and Prejudice where Elizabeth's father nearly wets his pants in astonishment that she's agreed to marry Mr Darcy

"Lets me advise you to think the better of it. I know your disposition Lizzy. I know that you could neither be happy nor respectable, unless you truly esteemed (respected) your husband; unless you looked up to him as superior. Your lively talents (personality and pursuits) would place you in the greatest danger of an unequal marriage. You could scarcely escape discredit and misery. Let me not have the grief of seeing you unable to respect your partner in life..."

Pride and Prejudice gives excellent reference on the difference between two women with strong forward characters: Elizabeth and Lydia. Theyre both colourful, affectionate and playful and easily give their opinion on things. Except for the obvious fact that one is rebellious, immodestly flirtacious, forward and has no self control nor respect for herself or her family, whereas the other is self controlled, respectful, modest and humble in her beauty and intelligence. You see the culmination of each of the characters values and personalities as they choose who they marry and how they marry.

What I tell people is, its not a sin to be a 'Elizabeth' but make very sure you marry someone you can respect and submit to as a Christian wife, and without self discipline and godly mentors who you can receive strong advice from, you could easily become a 'Lydia'. Because for a bloke, being married to a 'Lydia' is a misery lol.
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One of my fav movies. Cool quote!!!!!!!! I can identify. haha :)
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#11
#11
Stuey said:
I feel that 80% of guys that take the 'I'm not taking nonsense from you Lady' approach will be jerks. It may start off at that but I'm thinking it would get worse.

Another point that you girls may wish to consider. Guys are meant to lead, but the way in which we are meant to lead is by laying down our life for others - for our wives as Christ did the church. Now please, we should, but we won't get this right all the time, and maybe not most of the time, but what this will mean is that he should be putting you first.

If he is doing this, say, letting you watch chick flicks with him all the time as opposed to watching football, and you are interpreting it as a sign of weakness and of being able to walk over him, just be very careful...
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I completely disagree. :) My stepdad was such a man. My husband was such a man. My brothers are such men. I have met others. None of them have ever been abusive toward me or any other woman.

They were/are fun, intelligent, compassionate, affectionate guys, but they knew/know when and how to stand their ground and exactly where their lines were drawn, and didn't allow batting eyelashes or shrews to back them down. :) I respect(ed) all of them and would rather be more like them than pretty much any woman I know.

And ALL of them have served in the military and have put their lives on the line for others (even strangers) at one time or another. I have no doubt they would do it for me.
 
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J

Jullianna

Guest
#13
#13
Don't be so quick to surrender. :D You do have a point. There ARE guys out there who don't know the difference between the sort of guys I'm talking about and being a controlling jerk. :)

I hope you aren't offended when I say that I have found you to be one of the guys I respect because you have never hesistated to politely speak your mind and you keep me in check. :D I have to be on my toes with you, Sir.
 
Liamson

Liamson

Senior Member
#14
Feb 3, 2010
3,078
69
48
#14
Some women regardless of the Character of the men they encounter will seek to do as they please and undermine their partner's authority at any given moment for the sake of peace.

I was in one such relationship in 2008. I was only allowed to be a man about what I believed a man should do so long as it did not inconvenience her need to be in control. She would use her dog or her friends or her job as some kind of leverage into planning things that I clearly had no part of leading.

He dog especially, only she knew the needs of her dog and only she could properly take care of it. As if I had never been around or had a dog before. If I was to do anything with the dog, I was immediate told I was doing it wrong so I could never just have fun with the dog, even if the dog wanted to.

With her friends it was more about peace. I was a Christian and her friends were gay. when we would have a discussion, everyone would take it personally. Leading to the inevitability that my position was irrelevant or they were irrelevant to me.

Never once did she stand up for me to her friends. I became her doormat because what little relationship authority I had was irrelevant. So I gave up hoping that I could use my friends and my job and my fish as enough leverage as she had used to take back the power in the relationship. She hated that.

Everything became a power struggle. There was no peace until I gave in to temptation and started sleeping with her. That rendered my faith to myself irrelevant. It rendered me irrelevant. I gave up trying to stand my ground and just began making everyone happy. Her, her friends and my friends all thought everything was kosher.

Except for God, He didn't think this whole thing was very funny at all. He started reminding me of who I was and that if I was being honest with myself about what I believed and lived it out I would draw my line in the sand and not stand for any of this. When I did it worked for a while, until it didn't. Then I started getting Migraines. And then her ankle broke and we were done.


To wrap things up. God knows who we are, when we tell Him we are going to do something He holds us accountable to it. He knows our hearts and our intentions better than any of us can imagine. He also knows the way things are designed to be. He placed Adam and Eve with an intention as to how they should get along. Not that Eve should submit to a weak and wavering Adam but that Adam should be the rock of consistency in the relationship. He is the leader and the head of the house, He is personally responsible to God for his family. When a woman undermines and takes that away from him it is up to the man to be a man and take it back.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#15
#15
Liamson said:
Some women regardless of the Character of the men they encounter will seek to do as they please and undermine their partner's authority at any given moment for the sake of peace.

I was in one such relationship in 2008. I was only allowed to be a man about what I believed a man should do so long as it did not inconvenience her need to be in control. She would use her dog or her friends or her job as some kind of leverage into planning things that I clearly had no part of leading.

He dog especially, only she knew the needs of her dog and only she could properly take care of it. As if I had never been around or had a dog before. If I was to do anything with the dog, I was immediate told I was doing it wrong so I could never just have fun with the dog, even if the dog wanted to.

With her friends it was more about peace. I was a Christian and her friends were gay. when we would have a discussion, everyone would take it personally. Leading to the inevitability that my position was irrelevant or they were irrelevant to me.

Never once did she stand up for me to her friends. I became her doormat because what little relationship authority I had was irrelevant. So I gave up hoping that I could use my friends and my job and my fish as enough leverage as she had used to take back the power in the relationship. She hated that.

Everything became a power struggle. There was no peace until I gave in to temptation and started sleeping with her. That rendered my faith to myself irrelevant. It rendered me irrelevant. I gave up trying to stand my ground and just began making everyone happy. Her, her friends and my friends all thought everything was kosher.

Except for God, He didn't think this whole thing was very funny at all. He started reminding me of who I was and that if I was being honest with myself about what I believed and lived it out I would draw my line in the sand and not stand for any of this. When I did it worked for a while, until it didn't. Then I started getting Migraines. And then her ankle broke and we were done.


To wrap things up. God knows who we are, when we tell Him we are going to do something He holds us accountable to it. He knows our hearts and our intentions better than any of us can imagine. He also knows the way things are designed to be. He placed Adam and Eve with an intention as to how they should get along. Not that Eve should submit to a weak and wavering Adam but that Adam should be the rock of consistency in the relationship. He is the leader and the head of the house, He is personally responsible to God for his family. When a woman undermines and takes that away from him it is up to the man to be a man and take it back.
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*applauding*
 
K

kayem77

Guest
#16
#16
Stuey said:
I feel that 80% of guys that take the 'I'm not taking nonsense from you Lady' approach will be jerks. It may start off at that but I'm thinking it would get worse.

Another point that you girls may wish to consider. Guys are meant to lead, but the way in which we are meant to lead is by laying down our life for others - for our wives as Christ did the church. Now please, we should, but we won't get this right all the time, and maybe not most of the time, but what this will mean is that he should be putting you first.

If he is doing this, say, letting you watch chick flicks with him all the time as opposed to watching football, and you are interpreting it as a sign of weakness and of being able to walk over him, just be very careful...
Click to expand...
I get what you are saying and I think we are actually saying the same thing with different words . Leadership should ALWAYS come with love...it's not a dictatorship were the man gets to decide EVERYTHING that happens in the house or outside the house as if there wasn't another person in the marriage, and not just a person, but a partner and equal helper.

I think the reason why so many people take this wrong is because they forget that behind every law God made there was a good reason for it, and that loving God and loving others is what God's commandments and instructions are about.
The same principle of love applies in leadership and submission and a lot of people miss that while trying to do marriage '' the biblical way''. Some men miss the love part and become tyrants and some women miss the love part and become opressed victims by will.

P.S. I don't see nothing wrong with compromising about what movie to watch or anything actually , submit to one another is a great principle of love. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that EVERYTHING we do is because of me....wow communication is essential.
 
Liamson

Liamson

Senior Member
#17
Feb 3, 2010
3,078
69
48
#17
kayem77 said:
I get what you are saying and I think we are actually saying the same thing with different words . Leadership should ALWAYS come with love...it's not a dictatorship were the man gets to decide EVERYTHING that happens in the house or outside the house as if there wasn't another person in the marriage, and not just a person, but a partner and equal helper.

I think the reason why so many people take this wrong is because they forget that behind every law God made there was a good reason for it, and that loving God and loving others is what God's commandments and instructions are about.
The same principle of love applies in leadership and submission and a lot of people miss that while trying to do marriage '' the biblical way''. Some men miss the love part and become tyrants and some women miss the love part and become opressed victims by will.

P.S. I don't see nothing wrong with compromising about what movie to watch or anything actually , submit to one another is a great principle of love. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that EVERYTHING we do is because of me....wow communication is essential.
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Agreed it is about Love and submission. A man's love should be sacrificial. And a woman's love should be respectful. HOWEVER mutual love and submission are irrelevant if one or both parties are not COMPLETELY submitted to Christ. Christ is our model and our foundation, without Him to lead us, guide us and keep us from Evil, we would be as the blind leading the blind.

A person cannot with good intention do what is right according to God without God.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#18
Aug 2, 2009
24,581
4,269
113
#18
I have a different take than from what I've read here on what it means for a man to lead in a marriage, but I will write it later.
 
PopClick

PopClick

Senior Member
#19
Aug 12, 2011
4,056
136
63
#19
zeroturbulence said:
I have a different take than from what I've read here on what it means for a man to lead in a marriage, but I will write it later.
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Cop-out! Lol XD
If you forget... I'M GONNA START A THREAD!!!!!
My new favorite threat, apparently. :p
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#20
#20
LOL PopClick! :)

I think maybe it's the world's view of this thing that leads to misunderstandings. The world's view of a strong, intelligent, capable woman is one who is an overbearing, ill tempered shrew; which is nothing like the strong, intelligent, hardworking, capable godly woman described in Proverbs.

And men don't have to bully women in order to be leaders in relationships. That's unacceptable as well. It should be understood by every couple entering into holy matrimony what is expected of each party by God. It should not become a battle of the wills. That's for two year olds, but far too often it happens and we all know how that turns out. Divorce courts are full of such cases.

A wise woman understands that when we do the relationship right and put our trust in God and in the man we are trusting to be the one God approves for us, when that man asks for God's guidance in leading his family, God will not fail to provide it.

A man who loves a woman the way that God intends will not make light of things he understands to be important to her (whether he understands their importance or not :) ), including her thoughts regarding a thing. And a wise man knows that wise counsel from as many people as possible is a good thing, and if he can't count on his wife to be his helpmate in this regard, he probably shouldn't have married her in the first place. :)

Perhaps the bottom line is simply unselfishness all the way around. Love is not self-seeking and doesn't demand its own way. Love is not give and take. Love is give and give. At least that's the model Christ gave us. The scriptures tell us this:

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. - Philippians 2:3-4

We should be keeping this in mind regarding ALL of our relationships with others, but I would think especially those loving and depend on us.
 
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