"Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

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Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#21
Mar 25, 2013
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#21
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

cinder said:
She's talking about dating relationships, not marriages. You aren't bound by dating, the whole purpose is to find out if the two of you can spend your life together. As far as the disintegration of her marriage, it doesn't sound like there's much she could do when he decided that he wasn't willing to work at it. It takes two people to agree to do things God's way to make a marriage work. Not to mention that your post leaves no room for lust or other sinful desires that might draw people to each other, but that drawing would not be of God.
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You are correct in that she could do nothing when he decided to leave. Scripture specifically says to let them leave.

There is no "dating" ceremony according to scripture. The closest thing to dating is what was happening in Babylon just before its fall. Dating is a "world" creation, and is not ordained nor approved by God. Marriage is much more than the certificate that was established in 1,215 ad. It was around a lot longer before man reduced it to a piece of parchment and is much holier than it has been reduced to these days.

The physical attraction that a man and woman have for one another is not lust, it is desire. Lust is perverted desire for things that are not within the will of God, such as a married person, same sex, etc... God created this desire between a man and woman. The perverseness of this wicked generation has made things right in their own eyes saying that it is OK to say that they made a mistake and leave the person that they joined together as one flesh and become one with. God forbid. God will not be mocked.

Marriage is not defined by man. It was created by and therefore defined by God. A man with a man cannot be marriage. You can call a cat a dog, but it is still a cat.

The majority of people over 70 years old understand everything I have just said as they were taught it, but this evil generation will not endure hearing it.

Yet God has called us to be a holy people that desire to know him and to know his ways. Will we do it or will we be rebellious children?
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
#22
#22
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

 
S

Shouryu

Guest
#23
#23
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

Lynx said:
Dude, I bet you're just the life of the party.

And I'm guessing that line about "open rebuke is better than secret love" is one of your favorites. It allows for so much rebuke.
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Actually, I'll vouch for Markum, since you're relatively new here and haven't seen him much.

He's quite funny, with a dry sense of humor.
He's solid in his scripture, and whenever he looks to advise, he advises only from scripture.
He can be brutal, much like Ugly, but rarely as brutal as Ugly (or I have been, on occasion).
He has been through some stuff. Actually, that's misleading. He is always going through stuff, but it is because he is a man of faith, loyalty, and conviction.

He may come off in this one post as a killjoy to you, but I urge you not to cast judgment until you know what fires he's walked through.

Just some food for thought.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#24
Aug 13, 2014
27,220
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#24
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

I sit corrected. Mostly because I just woke up and I'm too lazy to stand. Thank you Shour.
 
seoulsearch

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
#25
May 23, 2009
16,432
5,378
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#25
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

Hey Markum,

Good to see you back in the forums.

I understand what you are saying. I've actually wanted to start a thread about whether a person will sin more as a single person or as a married person, because it's my honest belief that we sin in either situation, and I often wonder which is worse.

I'm at a point in my faith right now where yes, I believe that obeying God is the most important thing, but I then come to the conclusion that God's biggest concern with us is whether or not we obey. In other words, I don't feel like I mean anything to God except as a robot who obeys every snap of His finger.

In the first example in my post, yes, I decided to leave the relationship. To tell you the honest truth, I've become very afraid/concerned about relationships and marriage because with relationships come temptations, and with marriage, there is this pressure that it has to work out no matter what.

Personally, I've chosen to deal with it all by not getting close to anyone. And I tell myself... Well hey... if that's God's will...

I admit that this really kills my evangelical spirit because yes, the rebellious part of me wants to tell people, "Come and be a Christian and be as afraid and lonely and depressed as I am because you have to get everything right no matter what!!! And, if God Himself doesn't condemn you... there are always all the other Christians out there who are more than happy to do the job!" (I'm speaking about the things I've encountered in churches, this forum, and various circles of people, not about Markum.)

But like Jeremiah, I can't hold it in, either, as I've recently invited two co-workers to church.
 
secularhermit

secularhermit

Banned
#26
May 3, 2013
8,719
75
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#26
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

Tinkerbell725 said:
This is the reason for the term "happily married". Due to high frequency of divorce, marriage is presumed to be unhappy and end in divorce so you should add "happily" to it.
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Hmmm!

Are we afraid of trying to be happy with somebody else?

If singles sometimes it isin´t easy, hindered of the feeling of togetherness, it is harder, but the challange it worthy.

"Nearer to the AIR your wings blow" :p
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#27
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
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Philippines Age 40
#27
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

secularhermit said:
Hmmm!

Are we afraid of trying to be happy with somebody else?

If singles sometimes it isin´t easy, hindered of the feeling of togetherness, it is harder, but the challange it worthy.

"Nearer to the AIR your wings blow" :p
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Who's afraid? I'm not yet ready for it but I'm not afraid. Marriage is a blessing but so is being single. God will provide for my needs, since im not yet married maybe I dont need it for now.

Ecclesiastes 4:9-12

Two are better off than one, because together they can work more effectively. If one of them falls down, the other can help him up. But if someone is alone and falls, its just too bad, because there is no one to help him. Two people can resist an attack that would defeat one person alone.
 
Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#28
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#28
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

seoulsearch said:
Hey Markum,

Good to see you back in the forums.

I understand what you are saying. I've actually wanted to start a thread about whether a person will sin more as a single person or as a married person, because it's my honest belief that we sin in either situation, and I often wonder which is worse.

I'm at a point in my faith right now where yes, I believe that obeying God is the most important thing, but I then come to the conclusion that God's biggest concern with us is whether or not we obey. In other words, I don't feel like I mean anything to God except as a robot who obeys every snap of His finger.

In the first example in my post, yes, I decided to leave the relationship. To tell you the honest truth, I've become very afraid/concerned about relationships and marriage because with relationships come temptations, and with marriage, there is this pressure that it has to work out no matter what.

Personally, I've chosen to deal with it all by not getting close to anyone. And I tell myself... Well hey... if that's God's will...

I admit that this really kills my evangelical spirit because yes, the rebellious part of me wants to tell people, "Come and be a Christian and be as afraid and lonely and depressed as I am because you have to get everything right no matter what!!! And, if God Himself doesn't condemn you... there are always all the other Christians out there who are more than happy to do the job!" (I'm speaking about the things I've encountered in churches, this forum, and various circles of people, not about Markum.)

But like Jeremiah, I can't hold it in, either, as I've recently invited two co-workers to church.
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Firstly, I would like to thank Shouryu for the kind words and mediation. You are a true diplomat, sir. :) I apologize to Lynx for bursting through the door like Kramer from Seinfeld without any introduction. lol

Thanks for the warm welcome back. It is good to be back.

I can understand every bit of what you are describing deeply and passionately, seoulsearch. That is why I am SO passionate about it. I am glad that you have gotten to know me well enough to know I was not condemning. God forbid. I just hate to see suffering of any sort and when it comes to relationships, God has gifted me in comforting others while in other areas of my life, I need to lean on others for that same kind of comfort.

While it is good to be wise about relationships and marriage, God would not have you be afraid. Neither would he have you be depressed (AKA oppressed by the devil) or lonely. God saw Adam and saw his loneliness and did something about it. At that time, Adam did not yet know sin so he didn't have the same fears that we must face.

However, we must know that fear (first thing they did was run and hide from God out of fear) is a product of sin and therefore leads to death, destruction, and loss. Fear is a self-destructive thing that God is able to set us free from. How are we set free? "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Fear is a result of our ignorance and ignorance destroys us. (Hosea 4:6)

I once thought that fear was the opposite of faith. Last year someone corrected me on this and I was a bit astonished to find out that love is actually the opposite of fear. "Perfect love casts out all fear."

I can only testify of what set me free from the fear, depression, and loneliness that I once experienced. I had to trash everything I thought I knew about relationships. Everything I learned growing up from everyone including myself. I had to study the scriptures and pray diligently for understanding. What I discovered was how very distant man has traveled away from God's plan and how he created things to be. Man has created his own way of doing things without God... yet will even say the results are God's will whether good or bad.

In building, I draw plans. If people don't follow the design, things don't end up coming out the way they are supposed to. If people throw my plans away and just do their own thing, the results are a nightmare.

Throw away the plans you have and go grab God's design. :)
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#29
Aug 13, 2014
27,220
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#29
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

Of course the opposite of fear is love. If you love God, the more you know about Him the less you will fear. Faith is an adjunct, or more properly phrased, faith is a facet of this.


Who's Kramer?
 
CatHerder

CatHerder

Senior Member
#30
Mar 20, 2013
3,551
79
48
#30
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

kramer.jpg

Cosmo Kramer
 
secularhermit

secularhermit

Banned
#31
May 3, 2013
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75
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#31
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

Tinkerbell725 said:
Who's afraid? I'm not yet ready for it but I'm not afraid. Marriage is a blessing but so is being single. God will provide for my needs, since im not yet married maybe I dont need it for now.

Ecclesiastes 4:9-12

Two are better off than one, because together they can work more effectively. If one of them falls down, the other can help him up. But if someone is alone and falls, its just too bad, because there is no one to help him. Two people can resist an attack that would defeat one person alone.
Click to expand...
That "readiness" is not determined by our feelings, desires or needs (sadly said). As Ecc, barely said, it is related to THE WORK (the works GOD has planned to do through that mariage) Yet, secularly, I have been "trained" to believe it was another pleasure the hedonist world I grew up may offer human kind and it´s not.

Beyond the CONVENIENT and humanistic view of Ecc. 4:9-12, it´s not only to help on another, but to serve the Lord and our TEAMMATE. Yet it is said a robe of 3 strings is stronger, we have heard they also break (and are torn).

The blessing is finding (being found) by the ONE God directed us to find to share each day´s blessing so, singlessness (at certain age) is not a complete blessing, although life is a journey with several legs (and I hope He gave you the one who endures it all with you). :eek:
 
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Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#32
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
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Philippines Age 40
#32
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

secularhermit said:
That "readiness" is not determined by our feelings, desires or needs (sadly said). As Ecc, barely said, it is related to THE WORK (the works GOD has planned to do through that mariage) Yet, secularly, I have been "trained" to believe it was another pleasure the hedonist world I grew up may offer human kind and it´s not.

Beyond the CONVENIENT and humanistic view of Ecc. 4:9-12, it´s not only to help on another, but to serve the Lord and our TEAMMATE. Yet it is said a robe of 3 strings is stronger, we have heard they also break (and are torn).

The blessing is finding (being found) by the ONE God directed us to find to share each day´s blessing so, singlessness (at certain age) is not a complete blessing, although life is a journey with several legs (and I hope He gave you the one who endures it all with you). :eek:
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Thank you for your kind and wise words...But i dont believe there is such thing as a complete or incomplete blessing. God knows what's best for us. His grace is sufficient. I have desires but I'm so grateful to God's goodness that I feel I could'nt ask for more. May God also give the desires of your heart :)
 
secularhermit

secularhermit

Banned
#33
May 3, 2013
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#33
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

Tinkerbell725 said:
Thank you for your kind and wise words...But i dont believe there is such thing as a complete or incomplete blessing. God knows what's best for us. His grace is sufficient. I have desires but I'm so grateful to God's goodness that I feel I could'nt ask for more. May God also give the desires of your heart :)
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Oh! I ment, as completeness, that of making it "perfect", just complete. Yet I´m glad you are complete in that singleness. :)
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#34
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
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Philippines Age 40
#34
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

secularhermit said:
Oh! I ment, as completeness, that of making it "perfect", just complete. Yet I´m glad you are complete in that singleness. :)
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Thanks...i believe that marriage should be a union of two complete individuals not that a spouse will complete the other. If I am not happy in my single life, what makes me think I will be happy in a married life?
 
Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#35
Mar 25, 2013
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#35
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

Lynx said:
Of course the opposite of fear is love. If you love God, the more you know about Him the less you will fear. Faith is an adjunct, or more properly phrased, faith is a facet of this.


Who's Kramer?
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Kramer is a character from a sitcom called Seinfeld. The only reason that I made the reference is because my sister and brother-in-law have compared me to him many times because of my random appearances in the news and other places as well as my abrupt entrances. Though it is a worldly reference, I find it very amusing. lol
 
secularhermit

secularhermit

Banned
#36
May 3, 2013
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#36
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

Tinkerbell725 said:
Thanks...i believe that marriage should be a union of two complete individuals not that a spouse will complete the other. If I am not happy in my single life, what makes me think I will be happy in a married life?
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Well! "hapiness" is a state of mind and no doubt we would differ in talking about completeness, For example, not too many men would dare to say they´re complete when we know there´s a "missing" part, yet they´re comlete as a whole, as human beings and you are too right "hapiness" cannot depend on a person we have largely hoped for... Now I know what that union was meant for and I lost the interest of it: I´m complete with my wholeness. :eek:

Period!
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#37
Aug 13, 2014
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#37
Re: "Things Were So, So Good!!! And Then They Weren't..." (How to "Know For Sure"?)

For some reason every time I see this thread title (the "How to know for sure" part) I think of that old song...

"How bout the way he acts?
Oh no, that's not the way
You're not listening to all I say
If you wanna know
If he loves you so
It's in his kiss
That's where it is"
 
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