What every single Christian woman should know.

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Shawn2516

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
154
1
0
#21
This is what chivalry is according to wikipedia:

Léon Gautier, in his La Chevalerie, published for the first time in 1883, bemoaned the "invasion of Breton romans" which replaced the pure military ethos of the crusades with Arthurian fiction and courtly adventures. Gautier tries to give a "popular summary" of what he proposes was the "ancient code of chivalry" of the 11th and 12th centuries derived from the military ethos of the crusades which would evolve into the late medieval notion of chivalry. Gautier's Ten Commandments of chivalry are:

  1. Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions (Believe the Church's teachings and observe all the Church's directions).
  2. Thou shalt defend the Church.
  3. Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
  4. Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
  5. Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
  6. Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy.
  7. Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
  8. Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word.
  9. Thou shalt be generous, and give largesse to everyone.
  10. Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.
Fans of chivalry assume, and have assumed since the late medieval period, that there was a time in the past when chivalry was a living institution, when men acted chivalrically, when chivalry was alive and not dead, the imitation of which period would much improve the present. This is the mad mission of Don Quixote, protagonist of the most chivalric novel of all time and inspirer of the chivalry of Sir Walter Scott and of the U.S. South:[SUP][14][/SUP] to restore the age of chivalry, and thereby improve his country.[SUP][15][/SUP] It is a version of the myth of the Golden Age.
With the birth of modern historical and literary research, scholars have found that however far back in time "The Age of Chivalry" is searched for, it is always further in the past, even back to the Roman Empire.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] From Jean Charles Léonard de Sismondi:

We must not confound chivalry with the feudal system. The feudal system may be called the real life of the period of which we are treating, possessing its advantages and inconveniences, its virtues and its vices. Chivalry, on the contrary, is the ideal world, such as it existed in the imaginations of the Romance writers. Its essential character is devotion to woman and to honour[SUP].


[/SUP]Sismondi alludes to the fictitious Arthurian romances about the imaginary Court of King Arthur, which were usually taken as factual presentations of a historical age of chivalry. He continues:
The more closely we look into history, the more clearly shall we perceive that the system of chivalry is an invention almost entirely poetical. It is impossible to distinguish the countries in which it is said to have prevailed. It is always represented as distant from us both in time and place, and whilst the contemporary historians give us a clear, detailed, and complete account of the vices of the court and the great, of the ferocity or corruption of the nobles, and of the servility of the people, we are astonished to find the poets, after a long lapse of time, adorning the very same ages with the most splendid fictions of grace, virtue, and loyalty. The Romance writers of the twelfth century placed the age of chivalry in the time of Charlemagne. The period when these writers existed, is the time pointed out by Francis I. At the present day [about 1810], we imagine we can still see chivalry flourishing in the persons of Du Guesclin and Bayard, under Charles V and Francis I. But when we come to examine either the one period or the other, although we find in each some heroic spirits, we are forced to confess that it is necessary to antedate the age of chivalry, at least three or four centuries before any period of authentic history.[SUP][17]



[/SUP]So to put it bluntly, chivalry was and is Fictional Roman Romance, and given the list of duties a Knight had to honor if there was such a thing, womanhood was hardly at the top of the list. You had your God, your king, your land, your neighbors, also women and servants. They were crafted in just like anything else, but hardly the focal point.

 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#22
This is what chivalry is according to wikipedia:

Léon Gautier, in his La Chevalerie, published for the first time in 1883, bemoaned the "invasion of Breton romans" which replaced the pure military ethos of the crusades with Arthurian fiction and courtly adventures. Gautier tries to give a "popular summary" of what he proposes was the "ancient code of chivalry" of the 11th and 12th centuries derived from the military ethos of the crusades which would evolve into the late medieval notion of chivalry. Gautier's Ten Commandments of chivalry are:

  1. Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions (Believe the Church's teachings and observe all the Church's directions).
  2. Thou shalt defend the Church.
  3. Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
  4. Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
  5. Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
  6. Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy.
  7. Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
  8. Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word.
  9. Thou shalt be generous, and give largesse to everyone.
  10. Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.
Fans of chivalry assume, and have assumed since the late medieval period, that there was a time in the past when chivalry was a living institution, when men acted chivalrically, when chivalry was alive and not dead, the imitation of which period would much improve the present. This is the mad mission of Don Quixote, protagonist of the most chivalric novel of all time and inspirer of the chivalry of Sir Walter Scott and of the U.S. South:[SUP][14][/SUP] to restore the age of chivalry, and thereby improve his country.[SUP][15][/SUP] It is a version of the myth of the Golden Age.
With the birth of modern historical and literary research, scholars have found that however far back in time "The Age of Chivalry" is searched for, it is always further in the past, even back to the Roman Empire.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] From Jean Charles Léonard de Sismondi:

We must not confound chivalry with the feudal system. The feudal system may be called the real life of the period of which we are treating, possessing its advantages and inconveniences, its virtues and its vices. Chivalry, on the contrary, is the ideal world, such as it existed in the imaginations of the Romance writers. Its essential character is devotion to woman and to honour[SUP].


[/SUP]Sismondi alludes to the fictitious Arthurian romances about the imaginary Court of King Arthur, which were usually taken as factual presentations of a historical age of chivalry. He continues:
The more closely we look into history, the more clearly shall we perceive that the system of chivalry is an invention almost entirely poetical. It is impossible to distinguish the countries in which it is said to have prevailed. It is always represented as distant from us both in time and place, and whilst the contemporary historians give us a clear, detailed, and complete account of the vices of the court and the great, of the ferocity or corruption of the nobles, and of the servility of the people, we are astonished to find the poets, after a long lapse of time, adorning the very same ages with the most splendid fictions of grace, virtue, and loyalty. The Romance writers of the twelfth century placed the age of chivalry in the time of Charlemagne. The period when these writers existed, is the time pointed out by Francis I. At the present day [about 1810], we imagine we can still see chivalry flourishing in the persons of Du Guesclin and Bayard, under Charles V and Francis I. But when we come to examine either the one period or the other, although we find in each some heroic spirits, we are forced to confess that it is necessary to antedate the age of chivalry, at least three or four centuries before any period of authentic history.[SUP][17]



[/SUP]So to put it bluntly, chivalry was and is Fictional Roman Romance, and given the list of duties a Knight had to honor if there was such a thing, womanhood was hardly at the top of the list. You had your God, your king, your land, your neighbors, also women and servants. They were crafted in just like anything else, but hardly the focal point.



Huummm make war against the infidel...
 
Nov 25, 2014
942
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#23
So to put it bluntly, chivalry was and is Fictional Roman Romance, and given the list of duties a Knight had to honor if there was such a thing, womanhood was hardly at the top of the list. You had your God, your king, your land, your neighbors, also women and servants. They were crafted in just like anything else, but hardly the focal point.


​Well then men need to stop griping that chivalry is dead because women killed it.
 

AsifinPassing

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2010
3,608
40
48
#25
Sure are a lot of 'Wat?' moments in this thread so far...

To the OP, nice post ma'am. I'm glad you try to encourage ladies. God knows we all need help with how we view things, especially ourselves..

To Grace and Zippy...and even Jenibean *side-glance at that comment* (at least dogs are loyal, loving, admirable creatures)...


Many people (men and women) are just insecure and worried they'll lose one of their most precious things in life...



 

Shawn2516

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
154
1
0
#26
​Well then men need to stop griping that chivalry is dead because women killed it.
[/INDENT]
I don't think its so much the death of chivalry, as it is the death of being a gentleman. They have just got mixed together.
 
C

coby

Guest
#27
I don't think its so much the death of chivalry, as it is the death of being a gentleman. They have just got mixed together.
Gentlemen aren't dead. I just met one. Amazing, my neighbour carried my shopping bag. Wow!! You almost never see it anymore, I agree, but neither do you see ladies.
 

Shawn2516

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
154
1
0
#28
Gentlemen aren't dead. I just met one. Amazing, my neighbour carried my shopping bag. Wow!! You almost never see it anymore, I agree, but neither do you see ladies.
I live in the south, the hometown of gentlemen. I see it slowly dieing here though. I say its mostly from the older generations, but the millennials do not have it so much. I think women in general would find a huge rise in gentlemen if men saw a huge rise in ladyship. But alas, another topic for another time.
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#29
Gentlemen aren't dead. I just met one. Amazing, my neighbour carried my shopping bag. Wow!! You almost never see it anymore, I agree, but neither do you see ladies.
That is an excellent point. Women can't expect to be treated like ladies if we are not acting ladylike...I have seen women bashing men holding the door for them...no wonder why many of them aren't acting like gentlemen no more.
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#30
Gentlemen aren't dead. I just met one. Amazing, my neighbour carried my shopping bag. Wow!! You almost never see it anymore, I agree, but neither do you see ladies.
I forgot to say...that is just so sweet:)
 

Shawn2516

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
154
1
0
#31
That is an excellent point. Women can't expect to be treated like ladies if we are not acting ladylike...I have seen women bashing men holding the door for them...no wonder why many of them aren't acting like gentlemen no more.
I remember one time going to my wife's aunts house, a very deeply committed christian woman, to eat food and pray. After the food it was prayer time, and she looked at me and said "You are the man of the house, so you must lead us into prayer". I am use to sitting on the sidelines a lot so it caught me off guard.

But what amazed me, was here I am, a stranger and guest in her home, and she literally just threw all authority of her household unto me. For once in my life, I actually felt like I had a role or identity with a genuine responsibility. I actually felt like a man who was in charge.

I must say I don't feel that way at all in America. People saying "Your the leader, your the leader", but really you have no authority over people. Its more like saying "were gonna give you the work! were gonna give you the work! but don't expect a single ounce of obedience from us!".
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#32
Gentlemen aren't dead. I just met one. Amazing, my neighbour carried my shopping bag. Wow!! You almost never see it anymore, I agree, but neither do you see ladies.
I married one!!! :)
 
Nov 25, 2014
942
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#33
That is an excellent point. Women can't expect to be treated like ladies if we are not acting ladylike...I have seen women bashing men holding the door for them...no wonder why many of them aren't acting like gentlemen no more.
I totally disagree with this statement. This is the WORLD'S VIEW, not GOD'S. A man's virtue is not dependent on the behavior of anyone else. Can you imagine men standing before God saying, "Well, I couldn't do what was right and worthy in your sight, Lord because they weren't acting like ladies."

If something is RIGHT it's RIGHT and you should do it AS UNTO THE LORD....NOT because you get noticed or appreciated or verbally stroked by others.
 
Nov 25, 2014
942
44
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#34
I remember one time going to my wife's aunts house, a very deeply committed christian woman, to eat food and pray. After the food it was prayer time, and she looked at me and said "You are the man of the house, so you must lead us into prayer". I am use to sitting on the sidelines a lot so it caught me off guard.

But what amazed me, was here I am, a stranger and guest in her home, and she literally just threw all authority of her household unto me. For once in my life, I actually felt like I had a role or identity with a genuine responsibility. I actually felt like a man who was in charge.

I must say I don't feel that way at all in America. People saying "Your the leader, your the leader", but really you have no authority over people. Its more like saying "were gonna give you the work! were gonna give you the work! but don't expect a single ounce of obedience from us!".

It's not the job of the world to MAKE you a leader. Either you know who you are in God and you act accordingly, or not. If you're waiting for the world to recognize some inherent greatness and bow before your clear insight and authority, you're spitting into the wind. It's not the job of the world to prop up your manhood. That's YOUR job....between you and God.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#35
I live in the south, the hometown of gentlemen. I see it slowly dieing here though. I say its mostly from the older generations, but the millennials do not have it so much. I think women in general would find a huge rise in gentlemen if men saw a huge rise in ladyship. But alas, another topic for another time.
I moved south from Canada. I met my husband here.I must say that I was surprised. Even younger guys still open a door for a woman. I will have to say that the militant attitude of hardcore feminists has done a lot to stop men from showing their chivalrous side. I remember my father opened a door for a woman once and she said "I can open my own door". So how do you deal with that?
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#36
I totally disagree with this statement. This is the WORLD'S VIEW, not GOD'S. A man's virtue is not dependent on the behavior of anyone else. Can you imagine men standing before God saying, "Well, I couldn't do what was right and worthy in your sight, Lord because they weren't acting like ladies."

If something is RIGHT it's RIGHT and you should do it AS UNTO THE LORD....NOT because you get noticed or appreciated or verbally stroked by others.
I think it is nice to be treated like a lady, thankfully most men are gentlemen.
 
Nov 25, 2014
942
44
0
#37
I moved south from Canada. I met my husband here.I must say that I was surprised. Even younger guys still open a door for a woman. I will have to say that the militant attitude of hardcore feminists has done a lot to stop men from showing their chivalrous side. I remember my father opened a door for a woman once and she said "I can open my own door". So how do you deal with that?
I've lived most of my life in the South and men are VERY gentlemanly here...even young men. I teach high school students and I see young men everyday opening doors, picking up dropped books, letting girls go first, etc. all without being asked.

I've never heard a woman complain about it. I've heard stories about women complaining...but I don't get why that says anything about womankind that an individual woman complains. If an individual man complains that "women are worthless"...does that somehow indite all of mankind?

If I were a man opening a door for a woman who claims that "I can open my own door," my response would simply be, "My courtesy is not based on devaluing your ability, but by valuing you as a person..." and let her proceed. When we allow others to go first, we are ascribing to them VALUE. This is why we get up for the elderly or the pregnant on buses, or why we hold open a door for someone else, or help carry shopping bags, or say "please" and "thank you." It's to remind people that they are VALUABLE...inherently so. Their value isn't based on their beauty, age, income, education, or even their behavior....they are valuable because they are made in the image of God.

This is why I don't get the attitude of "I'm only going to do for those who give back to me." The idea of seeking some kind of reward for good behavior is philosophically opposed to biblical Christianity.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#38
I've lived most of my life in the South and men are VERY gentlemanly here...even young men. I teach high school students and I see young men everyday opening doors, picking up dropped books, letting girls go first, etc. all without being asked.

I've never heard a woman complain about it. I've heard stories about women complaining...but I don't get why that says anything about womankind that an individual woman complains. If an individual man complains that "women are worthless"...does that somehow indite all of mankind?

If I were a man opening a door for a woman who claims that "I can open my own door," my response would simply be, "My courtesy is not based on devaluing your ability, but by valuing you as a person..." and let her proceed. When we allow others to go first, we are ascribing to them VALUE. This is why we get up for the elderly or the pregnant on buses, or why we hold open a door for someone else, or help carry shopping bags, or say "please" and "thank you." It's to remind people that they are VALUABLE...inherently so. Their value isn't based on their beauty, age, income, education, or even their behavior....they are valuable because they are made in the image of God.

This is why I don't get the attitude of "I'm only going to do for those who give back to me." The idea of seeking some kind of reward for good behavior is philosophically opposed to biblical Christianity.
I agree with all you said. But up north I think men just gave up.They encountered such nasty attitudes from women that they stopped being a gentleman. If I held a door open for anyone who said they can open their own door,frankly,they'd get it back in the face. Here in the south Ive seen both men and women hold doors open. Almost always the person will say "thank you". When they don't I say " you're welcome!!" My brother in law,who is southern, came up to Canada for the first time. He stood in the doorway of a restaurant and held the door open for people and all he got was dirty looks. I said to him" they don't do that here,let them open their own door." I think men don't know what to do anymore so they keep to themselves and mind their own business.

My father worked with a militant feminist. All the men were afraid of her. My father is the type that gets along with most people and figured she was no different. One day they were joking,in front of everyone, he put his hands on her wrists. She went to the boss and said she was suing for sexual assault. Luckily my father had the best lawyer in town and she backed down fast. So its fine to say men should act a certain way but a lot of women out there are truly man haters. So I think men just keep their head down and mind their own business. And I cant blame them. The men don't get that so much in the south. A lot less feminists down here I guess.
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
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#39
I moved south from Canada. I met my husband here.I must say that I was surprised. Even younger guys still open a door for a woman. I will have to say that the militant attitude of hardcore feminists has done a lot to stop men from showing their chivalrous side. I remember my father opened a door for a woman once and she said "I can open my own door". So how do you deal with that?
By simply saying, "I doubt it." :)
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#40
I agree with all you said. But up north I think men just gave up.They encountered such nasty attitudes from women that they stopped being a gentleman. If I held a door open for anyone who said they can open their own door,frankly,they'd get it back in the face. Here in the south Ive seen both men and women hold doors open. Almost always the person will say "thank you". When they don't I say " you're welcome!!" My brother in law,who is southern, came up to Canada for the first time. He stood in the doorway of a restaurant and held the door open for people and all he got was dirty looks. I said to him" they don't do that here,let them open their own door." I think men don't know what to do anymore so they keep to themselves and mind their own business.

My father worked with a militant feminist. All the men were afraid of her. My father is the type that gets along with most people and figured she was no different. One day they were joking,in front of everyone, he put his hands on her wrists. She went to the boss and said she was suing for sexual assault. Luckily my father had the best lawyer in town and she backed down fast. So its fine to say men should act a certain way but a lot of women out there are truly man haters. So I think men just keep their head down and mind their own business. And I cant blame them. The men don't get that so much in the south. A lot less feminists down here I guess.
This morning I faced a double dilemma. I was walking behind a woman who was using a cane. As we approached a door I said, "I'm behind you; I'll get the door for you." I wasn't sure what her response was going to be, but she was most gracious. And there you have it, two strangers proving once again that the haters will not be triumphant.