4 views of Mark 16:16

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Beckworth

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May 15, 2019
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#21
That’s why I call Baptism the NT circumcision. Instead of being what God intended it became a religious means of salvation
Isn’t that exactly what Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21? If it SAVES US, then isn’t it a “religious means of salvation?” How can it be anything else, when you read 1 Peter3:21. If it “REMITS SINS, wouldn’t it be a “means of salvation? If it washes away sins, wouldn’t it be a “means of salvation?” I need scripture to show me that it doesn’t have anything to do with salvation. I know what MAN says, but that doesn’t agree with what I find in the Bible. So if there is such a scripture that plainly teaches something opposite of 1 Peter 3:21 please tell me.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#22
I know babies get baptized; that is VIEW# 2 in the original post. But who are the other UNBELIEVERS who are getting baptized? And what kind of baptism are they getting? Surely not the one that’s “in the name of Jesus”? Since they don’t believe in him—why are they being baptized? We are not talking about some foreign god or foreign baptism. We are talking about the baptism that Jesus commanded in Matthew 18:18-19. Where they are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. There are unbelievers being baptized in the name of the Trinity?? Really??
Yes. They get water baptized because think it will save them. They are like
those who followed Jesus because they ate the loaves and had their fill.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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#23
So, if they don’t say what I am saying, WHAT DO THEY SAY? Please, enlighten me.
Been here done that
already explained mark 16
acts 2 is a poor English translation
it does not matter really. If you want the Bible to contradict itself. You can have that bible.
I want a reliable bible that is consistent and will translate it that way
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#24
Not sure I understand this. I agree babies are unbelievers and get baptized; I believe that was view #





I know babies get baptized; that is VIEW# 2 in the original post. But who are the other UNBELIEVERS who are getting baptized? And what kind of baptism are they getting? Surely not the one that’s “in the name of Jesus”? Since they don’t believe in him—why are they being baptized? We are not talking about some foreign god or foreign baptism. We are talking about the baptism that Jesus commanded in Matthew 18:18-19. Where they are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. There are unbelievers being baptized in the name of the Trinity?? Really??
lol anyone can be baptized in water they just have to find someone to baptize them
but only God can baptize with the spirit. And only those people are saved
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#25
Isn’t that exactly what Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21? If it SAVES US, then isn’t it a “religious means of salvation?”
No actually he does not. He said like the flood it resembles that which truly saves.
How can it be anything else, when you read 1 Peter3:21. If it “REMITS SINS, wouldn’t it be a “means of salvation? If it washes away sins, wouldn’t it be a “means of salvation?” I need scripture to show me that it doesn’t have anything to do with salvation. I know what MAN says, but that doesn’t agree with what I find in the Bible. So if there is such a scripture that plainly teaches something opposite of 1 Peter 3:21 please tell me.
peter said it himself. It does not remove filth if the flesh (sins of the flesh). But is the answer if a good conscience of Christ. It is the resurrection of Christ that saves or as Paul said in col 2. The circumcision of God without hands via the spiritual baptism of the one who raised him from the dead
news flash. Your pastor did not raise Jesus from the dead. Not can he baptize you into Christ. Only God can do this
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#26
Yes. They get water baptized because think it will save them. They are like
those who followed Jesus because they ate the loaves and had their fill.
Amen
their faith is not in God but their work
hence they are literally unbelievers
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
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#27
And here we have it, yet another thread to further confuse people over one of the simplest things in the New Testament.
Yes, it IS simple! People READ 1 Peter 3:21 but they don’t believe it. They refuse Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, and Acts 22:16. They don’t believe any thing those scriptures say—in fact they openly deny what it says. Yes, it should be simple, but sadly it’s not.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#28
Yes, it IS simple! People READ 1 Peter 3:21 but they don’t believe it. They refuse Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, and Acts 22:16. They don’t believe any thing those scriptures say—in fact they openly deny what it says. Yes, it should be simple, but sadly it’s not.
I know you're looking for a theological debate but I'm not the guy to give you one. All I know is the Lord gave us an example to follow, and commanded us to get baptized. That's good enough for me.
 

Beckworth

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May 15, 2019
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#29
No actually he does not. He said like the flood it resembles that which truly saves.

peter said it himself. It does not remove filth if the flesh (sins of the flesh). But is the answer if a good conscience of Christ. It is the resurrection of Christ that saves or as Paul said in col 2. The circumcision of God without hands via the spiritual baptism of the one who raised him from the dead
news flash. Your pastor did not raise Jesus from the dead. Not can he baptize you into Christ. Only God can do this
Well, here is another “news flash”. In the Bible the words pastor, shepherd, bishop and elder are all names referring to the spiritual leaders of the church in Titus 1 and 1 Tim. 3. And there was never just one—but a plurality of them. ——but that’s another subject.

All Peter us saying is that baptism is not a “physical bath”. It is a “spiritual bath.” It does not remove filth from the body— it removes sins from the soul. Do you know the story of Naaman In 2 Kings 5? Naaman was told by God to dip 7 times in the Jordan River and he would be cured of leprosy. At first he refused but relented and OBEYED GOD’s instructions. When he did what God said, his leprosy was gone—he was cured. Do you think there was power in the water? No, there was no power in the water; the power was in obeying God’s word. God cured his leprosy —but on His terms. If Naaman chose to refuse to do what God said, he would have gone home a “leper.” You have the same choice. You can believe God when He says “baptism saves you.” and be clean of your sins, have your sins remitted, have your sins “washed away” OR you can refuse What God says and stay a “sinner.” Just like Naaman could have stayed a “leper”.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
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#30
I know you're looking for a theological debate but I'm not the guy to give you one. All I know is the Lord gave us an example to follow, and commanded us to get baptized. That's good enough for me.
That’s a good attitude and a good start.
I could not care less about a “theological debate.” I just want everyone to understand and obey God’s “truth.” All I am asking is for people to believe what the Bible says. That’s why I give so many scriptures. Believe what you READ in the Bible—not what you have been taught by men.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#32
Well, here is another “news flash”. In the Bible the words pastor, shepherd, bishop and elder are all names referring to the spiritual leaders of the church in Titus 1 and 1 Tim. 3. And there was never just one—but a plurality of them. ——but that’s another subject.

All Peter us saying is that baptism is not a “physical bath”. It is a “spiritual bath.” It does not remove filth from the body— it removes sins from the soul. Do you know the story of Naaman In 2 Kings 5? Naaman was told by God to dip 7 times in the Jordan River and he would be cured of leprosy. At first he refused but relented and OBEYED GOD’s instructions. When he did what God said, his leprosy was gone—he was cured. Do you think there was power in the water? No, there was no power in the water; the power was in obeying God’s word. God cured his leprosy —but on His terms. If Naaman chose to refuse to do what God said, he would have gone home a “leper.” You have the same choice. You can believe God when He says “baptism saves you.” and be clean of your sins, have your sins remitted, have your sins “washed away” OR you can refuse What God says and stay a “sinner.” Just like Naaman could have stayed a “leper”.
Sadly you bought the koolaide given to you.

Once again, God does not contradict himself

Jesus said it is through faith in him, All we have to do is look to the cross. And we will be saved and never perish.

But Like I said, you want to earn salvation, feel free.. But I will recommend when you see christ, You do not boast of your baptism. It will Not go well for you

Me, I will boast in Christ.. And praise God I could do all the works he wanted me to do. Like get baptized. Take communion. Go to church. Serve others Winn the lost. Make disciples. Etc etc.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#33
John 6:28-29–Faith is a WORK. 1 Thess. 1:3 the WORK of faith.” Are you earning your salvation?
Faith is the work of God my friend

You earn your salvation when you do a work to recieve a wage or reward (like in your case, water baptism)

My faith is in God who did all the work. And continues to work in me..

Good luck,,
 
Jun 6, 2023
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#34
This is all very confusing. Is there a point to this argument?
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#35
Jesus said in Mark 16:16–“He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. But he that does not believe shall be condemned.”
The reason “baptism” is not mentioned in the second half of that scripture is because no unbeliever would ever be baptized. So it was not necessary for Jesus to say “ He that does not believe and is not baptized shall be condemned.” Jesus gave us credit for having enough common sense to understand this.
There are four views of this verse:
(1). He that believes and is NOT baptized shall be saved. This is the popular teaching of most denominations.
(2) He that does NOT believe and is baptized shall be saved. This is the belief of those who believe in sprinkling babies.
(3) He that does NOT believe and is NOT baptized shall be saved. This is the view of the Universalists who believe everyone will be saved no matter what.
(4) He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. This is the BIBLE view—Because it is what Jesus said. John 17:17 says your word is TRUTH. So now we know the TRUTH about Mark 16:16.
MARK 16:16 is like saying 1 + 1 = 2. Belief + baptism = salvation.
Belief without baptism is saying 1 = 2 or 1 —1 = 2 That is the wrong answer and is not what Jesus taught.
Believe the TRUTH and put your trust in the scriptures.
Ezekiel 36:25
Then I will sprinkle pure water on you and make you pure. I will wash away all your filth, the filth from those nasty idols, and I will make you pure.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#36
Ah, yes, but then you have a new set of questions. What “mode” of baptism is acceptable? Sprinkling, pouring, or immersion? And what is the PURPOSE of baptism? Just to join a church? Just an “outward sign of an inward grace”, or “for the remission of sins?” (Acts 2:38) Could you be baptized wrong and need to be re-baptized? ( Acts 19:1-5)

The subject of “baptism” is important. We need to get our answers from the Bible.
Ezekiel 36:25
Then I will sprinkle pure water on you and make you pure. I will wash away all your filth, the filth from those nasty idols, and I will make you pure.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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#37
Unbelievers get baptized all the time.
They certainly do. There have been numerous people over the years who attend false religions and cults that have been water baptized because they trust in their baptism to save them, yet they do not truly believe in Jesus unto salvation. Some of these people are even infants who are incapable of believing.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#38
They certainly do. There have been numerous people over the years who attend false religions and cults that have been water baptized because they trust in their baptism to save them, yet they do not truly believe in Jesus unto salvation. Some of these people are even infants who are incapable of believing.
amen, an infant can not believe or not believe excellent point
 

vassal

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Jan 20, 2024
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#39
Ah, yes, but then you have a new set of questions. What “mode” of baptism is acceptable? Sprinkling, pouring, or immersion? And what is the PURPOSE of baptism? Just to join a church? Just an “outward sign of an inward grace”, or “for the remission of sins?” (Acts 2:38) Could you be baptized wrong and need to be re-baptized? ( Acts 19:1-5)

The subject of “baptism” is important. We need to get our answers from the Bible.
Yes, the subject of baptism is important, 2 kinds, by the spirit and by water see below the Words of Christ;
In the King James Version (KJV), several verses highlight the concept of baptism by the Spirit as spoken by Christ. In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist states, “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.” This establishes the distinction between water baptism and the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
In John 3:5, Jesus emphasizes the necessity of being “born of water and of the Spirit” for entering the kingdom of God. This suggests that both aspects are important for spiritual rebirth. Additionally, in John 7:37-39, Jesus invites those who are thirsty to come to Him, explaining that “out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water,” which refers to the Spirit that believers would later receive.
Further, in Acts 1:4-5, Jesus commands His disciples to wait for the promise of the Father, indicating that they will be baptized with the Holy Spirit shortly. Finally, in Acts 2:38, Peter links repentance and water baptism with the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

Blessings.
 

Randy4u2c

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Sep 13, 2022
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#40
It seems in John 3 that Jesus does a good job of explaining salvation and baptizing Nicodemus with truth.