Am I supposed to give all of first job's wages to god?

[StandingFirmInChrist]

In the United States, we have a legal definition for the word "extortion." That definition states:

Extortion: The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.

When a pastor uses Malachi 3:8-10 in an attempt to guilt his congregation into tithing, he is guilty of extortion by its legal definition.

He tells them they are robbing God. This is meant to make them feel guilty.

He then tells them because they are robbing God, God will curse their homes, family, job, finances, health, vehicles, etc.. This is preaching fear.

He then informs them that in order to stop this curse, they must tithe their money to the Church' that the Church has the official right to collect the tithes of their money.

Clearly, they are guilty of extorting money from the congregation when they use such tactics.

For more information on this, please read my article, "Extortion in the Church"

 

[mystdancer50]

"The best way that I know how to capture the spirit of the New Testament generosity is simply to say: the issue is not, How much must I give?, but How much dare I keep? Not: Shall I tithe? But: How much of the money that I hold in trust for Christ can I take for my private use? The financial issue in the church today is not tithing, but exorbitance of life-style. The question is not can I afford to tithe, but can I justify the life-style that consumes 90% of my income? And behind that is the question: Do I love to use God's money to spread justice and mercy and spiritual hope in the world, or do I prefer to embezzle his money to purchase more and more personal comfort? The question whether the work of Christ...will be adequately supported is really the question of where your treasure is. And where your treasure is there is your heart. Therefore, I do not seek what is yours but you. Amen."

Full article is here: JOHN PIPER: TITHING

 

[jb]

Malachi is abundantly clear that not giving tithes and offerings is robbing God.

...

Tithing is an OT practice and the Malachi verse you quote is to OT saints, it is NOT written to the NT Church and for you to try and make it so shows forth your inability to rightly divide the Word of God on this subject.

You can find a study Here on tithing in the Scriptures and in Church history...

 

[mystdancer50]

I just think it is straight up ridiculous that Christians are unwilling to give a mere 10% to God, who gave His Son and keeps pouring out His love and blessing and anointing on us. The sickest and saddest part about this is that this is actually a debate among the people of God. Seriously?

There are Scriptures in the New Testament that do, in fact, encourage tithing, but you'd rather ignore them. I shared a couple of them earlier. It is ironic that men can say, "Oh, you don't have to tithe" and Christians are like, "Oh! Okay!" It all boils down to the heart and, sadly, one's heart is clearly shown in their unwillingness to tithe and give offerings besides.

The Bible specifically says that where your heart is, there your treasure is. The fact that so many defend not tithing is a sad testimony to where the hearts of Christians are today. I think the quote I shared earlier sums it up nicely:

"The best way that I know how to capture the spirit of the New Testament generosity is simply to say: the issue is not, How much must I give?, but How much dare I keep? Not: Shall I tithe? But: How much of the money that I hold in trust for Christ can I take for my private use?"

 

[CHRISTENE]

The pagans practiced tithing of the spoils of war... hmmm. So it is possible that Abram was following a pagan custom, that of giving 10% of war spoils to a king or a deity.

Oh! if it was a pagan custom to tithe then why did God gave His chosen people the command to tithe through Moses. So are you calling Israelites and Moses pagans following pagan laws what would you then call the God of old testament?

Would you marry your sister or brother? After all, Abram did before the Law.
Would you allow your husband to take a second wife? After all, Sarah gave Hagar to Abram to father a child prior to the Law.

Oh! so what about apostle Paul ? Was he
flawless?

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Oh! if it was a pagan custom to tithe then why did God gave His chosen people the command to tithe through Moses. So are you calling Israelites and Moses pagans following pagan laws what would you then call the God of old testament?

Compare the tithe Abram gave to Melchizedek with the tithe God commanded the Israelites to give. You will find they are not the same. Notice I said the pagans tithed from the spoils of war? Under the Mosaic Law, it was not spoils of war that were tithed, but rather agricultural products; i.e., crops and livestock.

Also note that in Numbers 31, under the Mosaic Law, God required far less than a tithe from the spoils of war.

Oh! so what about apostle Paul ? Was he

flawless?

Paul wasn't flawless. He admitted to that in Romans 7 and elsewhere. What does that have to do with my pointing out that the Levirate marriage was prior to and during the Law? or that marrying one's sister was before the Law? or polygamy?

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

God's Holy tithe was entirely different from the tithe that Abram gave to Melchizedek.

 

[Richie_2uk]

If you are lead to give to a church, give generously. I have not seen anything in the new testament regarding how much or what set amount you have to give. Its down to you how much you want to give as a blessing to your church. The Lord tells us to give with good cheer, in other words, to give what your heart tell you to give. Helping a church is a huge blessing, but if you are made to give, if you are in a sense forced to give, then you need to question your church leaders. and ask them to point out from scripture from the new testament that says, or help you understand more about tythe's and offerrings.

You see on these Christian broadcasting tv shows, these preachers almost begging you to send money in. just for a free book. If its free, why you have to send money in as a gift offering? it don't make sense. Money is the driving force for these out there in your face TV Christians. Another thing I seen, is how they go about in a sense to deceive you into paying for a DVD or a book or CD's. they tell you they are offering it FREE to you, but for a gift of $120. So how can they offer it free, if you have to pay for it? So they are saying there is no charge for the offer, But you can have it in your homes, for a gift of $120, Hang on if there is a no charge, how come they making a set amount for you to pay? So you have to send a gift of $120, no less. if you want that offer? Isn't that buying the offer that is meant for free? See How they deceive and con you? Sorry I have no time for so called Christians like those. You give, but you give from your heart. you don't give something, then say you want $120 for it as a gift offering. lol But I pray for those crooks, because no offence to them , that's what they are.

Anyways God bless lol . If you want to give to your church, you give from your heart, and what amount you want to be blessed with by God. As it says, give, and give generously.

 

[vanillakay]

I think were supposed to give generously IF we can. I was just reading in the bible earlier this morning. It was either n mark or matthew, i was flipping back and forth that i read the passage about how a poor widow came and only gave 2 small copper coins worth only a fraction of a penny. Jesus told his diciples that she gave more than the rich because she gave from the heart heart everything she owed. so it seems to me if you can only afford a few cents every Sunday as long as it is from the heart that if perfectly ok.

[h=3]Mark 12:41-44[/h]41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.
43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

 

[LT]

The NT is very clear about how we are to give.

We are to help our fellow believers; it says nothing about an organized church.
We are to help widows and orphans; it does not talk about a welfare or the foster-care system.
We are to give to the poor and needy; it does not talk about charity organizations.
We are to give out of love, not out of duty.
We are to give our everything, not necessarily all at once, but we should not feel like this is "our stuff"

The early church literally shared all their stuff, out of their free will, and love for one another. -I don't want you guys to think I'm advocating a political movement, but an attitude for our giving, and for our lives.

The Old Testament gave us a very practical number for giving (10% of what you made during the year). I use this as a guideline personally, but it is not a mandate for the NT church.

I see some wealthy Christians who think that once they tithe, they are all set, and the rest is theirs.... this is a horrible attitude. Then I see poor families, living week to week, and they still manage to find ways of giving to others.

REMEMBER: "giving" is not money only. It is an attitude of love for your fellow believers. There is no love when you are giving to an organization!!
People respond that they need to give to their church so it can run properly.... If your church costs a lot of money to run, then it is too large, and no longer personal.
Most of your giving should be done directly for a person, not funneled through a church or charity.


God bless you guys.
I can post reference verses for anyone who wants more Scripture on "the attitude of giving"

 

[mystdancer50]

Is tithing relevant today? - Resources - Eternal Perspective Ministries

Less than 2 minutes to hear this sound reasoning regarding tithing.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Harvest Church tithing message is wrong. It is just another spin on the "guilt your members into tithing their money" message. It is wrong on so many levels.

If every single individual in the Old Testament tithed, the pastor might have a valid argument. But not everyone tithed... only farmers and herders. There were many people of many other occupations, yet they were not required to tithe. Nor could they, for they had not that which God which God said was titheable; i.e., crops and livestock.

Money was not a titheable item. This is easily seen in Deuteronomy 14:22-27. That passage clearly says the tithe was to be EATEN. Now, I am not 100% sure of all the dietary plan that the children of Israel ate, but I am 100% sure that silver and gold was not one of their breakfast, lunch, or dinner menu choices.

Deuteronomy 14:22-27 tells us that if the way was too far, or the tithe was too heavy to carry, one could sell the tithe for silver, take that silver to the place of festivities, and use that silver to buy whatever kind of food or drink they wanted so that they could enjoy the festivities with their families and the Levites.

But to further demonstrate how that pastor was wrong, Malachi 3 clearly reveals that the tithe was food. That there may be meat in mine house, as the KJV says. Many more modern versions say that there may be food in mine house. Food, not money. The tithe was never money and money was never titheable.