Anyone have any disagreement to this tulip

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kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
3,902
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#42
Yeah Thunder, you seem a little demanding. Maybe take a day off or two, cool off, than when you got a better attitude, a decent discussion could possibly happen.

It seems you just want to bash Calvin, which seems like a bad idea. This is one of the Protestant Leaders of the Christian Faith.

Sure we all have different opinions, but it seems like your not really in it for a discussion, but to have a nice good mockery of him, and mock people who are open to his ideas. This is my impression of what you want.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#43
Yeah Thunder, you seem a little demanding. Maybe take a day off or two, cool off, than when you got a better attitude, a decent discussion could possibly happen.

It seems you just want to bash Calvin, which seems like a bad idea. This is one of the Protestant Leaders of the Christian Faith.

Sure we all have different opinions, but it seems like your not really in it for a discussion, but to have a nice good mockery of him, and mock people who are open to his ideas. This is my impression of what you want.
I'm cool thanks 🙂
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#44
Well it says here Jean Calvin never wrote the tulip Doctrine, Jean Calvin died in 1554.

Synod of Dordt
held in order to settle controversy in the Dutch churches initiated by the rise of Arminianism, met in the city of Dordrecht as a national assembly of the Dutch Reformed Church, to which were also invited voting representatives from the Reformed churches in eight foreign countries.

The convocation and proceedings of the Synod of Dordt (1618- 1619) may be considered "among the most interesting events of the seventeenth century. The Westminster Assembly was indeed more immediately interesting to British and American Presbyterians, yet the Synod of Dordt had a species of importance peculiar to itself and altogether pre-eminent. It was not merely a meeting of select divines of a single nation, but a convention of the Calvinistic world, to bear testimony against a rising and obtrusive error; to settle a question in which all the Reformed churches of Europe had an immediate and deep interest. The question was whether the opinions of Arminius, which were then agitating so many minds, could be reconciled with the confession of the Belgic churches." (Thomas Scott, The Articles of the Synod of Dort, Sprinkle Publications, 1993 reprint, p. 5.)

This synod convened on November 13, 1618 consisting of 39 pastors and 18 ruling Elders from the Belgic churches, 5 professors from the universities of Holland, 19 delegates from the Reformed churches in Germany and Switzerland, and 5 professors and bishops from Great Britain. France was also invited but did not attend. The Synod was thus constituted of 86 voting members in all. There were 154 formal sessions and many side conferences held during the six months that the Synod met to consider these matters. The last session of the Synod was held on May 9, 1619.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
3,902
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#45
The opening post of your thread has a video entitled, "TULIP - The False Doctrine of John Calvin".

Then you say....

Well it says here Jean Calvin never wrote the tulip Doctrine, Jean Calvin died in 1554.
I think I found the answer your looking for. It appears that T.U.L.I.P. is a five-letter acronym that help summarizes the religious principles of John Calvin. I think your splitting hairs here. More importantly, you are doing a terrible job in discrediting the teaching of one of the founding reformers of the Protestant Faith.

If your learning about something you disagree with, why didn't you continue on with a thread in Bible Study Forum? It doesn't really matter I suppose, but you probably would of got far more people to discuss this matter with you.

"Calvinism is a rare theology: It can be explained simply using a five-letter acronym: TULIP. This set of religious principles is the work of John Calvin (1509-1564), a French church reformer who had a permanent influence on several branches of Protestantism."


"The TULIP memory tool was solidified at the Synod of Dort (1618-1619), a gathering of Reformed theologians who met in the Netherlands to counter and condemn the teachings of Arminianism."


"Like Martin Luther before him, John Calvin broke from the Roman Catholic Church and based his theology on the Bible alone, not the Bible and tradition. After Calvin's death, his followers spread those beliefs throughout Europe and the American colonies."

https://www.learnreligions.com/five-point-calvinism-700356

Even Christianity.com gives credit to Jean Calvin for T.U.L.I.P., see here. They call the five point acronym, "The Five Points of Calvinism TULIP".

https://www.christianity.com/church/denominations/what-is-calvinism.html

what I've noticed is the traps are layed by the doctrine of total depravity in Calvinism the doctrine of devils.
Your quote above is quite revealing, you think Total Depravity in Calvinism is the doctrine of devils.

How is it the doctrine of devils?

Are you saying, there is more than one devil, since devils is plural?

Do you have scripture support of multiple devils?

How do you know what the doctrine of devils are?


Here is Total Depravity for you again....

"“Total depravity” asserts that as a consequence of the fall of man into sin, every person is enslaved to sin."

"People are not by nature inclined to love God, but rather to serve their own interests and to reject the rule of God."

"Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures.""


Now here are some Bible verses...

Romans 6:20
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

Philippians 2:3-4
3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.



There does seem to scripture support for Total Depravity. Are you saying, that even though it has scriptural support, it was influenced by these devils who create doctrine?

Maybe your saying, people are not sinners, that people are not selfish, and that you can get to God without God's help? Please clarify.

Can I ask what church you goto, or at least where your influences of Biblical teaching, so I can better understand where this doctrine of devils name calling is coming from?



 
Dec 18, 2023
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#46
The opening post of your thread has a video entitled, "TULIP - The False Doctrine of John Calvin".

Then you say....



I think I found the answer your looking for. It appears that T.U.L.I.P. is a five-letter acronym that help summarizes the religious principles of John Calvin. I think your splitting hairs here. More importantly, you are doing a terrible job in discrediting the teaching of one of the founding reformers of the Protestant Faith.

If your learning about something you disagree with, why didn't you continue on with a thread in Bible Study Forum? It doesn't really matter I suppose, but you probably would of got far more people to discuss this matter with you.

"Calvinism is a rare theology: It can be explained simply using a five-letter acronym: TULIP. This set of religious principles is the work of John Calvin (1509-1564), a French church reformer who had a permanent influence on several branches of Protestantism."


"The TULIP memory tool was solidified at the Synod of Dort (1618-1619), a gathering of Reformed theologians who met in the Netherlands to counter and condemn the teachings of Arminianism."


"Like Martin Luther before him, John Calvin broke from the Roman Catholic Church and based his theology on the Bible alone, not the Bible and tradition. After Calvin's death, his followers spread those beliefs throughout Europe and the American colonies."

https://www.learnreligions.com/five-point-calvinism-700356

Even Christianity.com gives credit to Jean Calvin for T.U.L.I.P., see here. They call the five point acronym, "The Five Points of Calvinism TULIP".

https://www.christianity.com/church/denominations/what-is-calvinism.html



Your quote above is quite revealing, you think Total Depravity in Calvinism is the doctrine of devils.

How is it the doctrine of devils?

Are you saying, there is more than one devil, since devils is plural?

Do you have scripture support of multiple devils?

How do you know what the doctrine of devils are?


Here is Total Depravity for you again....

"“Total depravity” asserts that as a consequence of the fall of man into sin, every person is enslaved to sin."

"People are not by nature inclined to love God, but rather to serve their own interests and to reject the rule of God."

"Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures.""


Now here are some Bible verses...

Romans 6:20
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

Philippians 2:3-4
3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.


Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.



There does seem to scripture support for Total Depravity. Are you saying, that even though it has scriptural support, it was influenced by these devils who create doctrine?

Maybe your saying, people are not sinners, that people are not selfish, and that you can get to God without God's help? Please clarify.

Can I ask what church you goto, or at least where your influences of Biblical teaching, so I can better understand where this doctrine of devils name calling is coming from?
when you've finished putting words in my mouth I will be happy to talk to you 🙂
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#47
This is a quote I found on the internet.

John Calvin quote

John Calvin quote


John Calvin is perhaps best known for his doctrine of predestination. He taught that God determined before all time who would be eternally saved and who would be condemned to hell. Christians, he said, should not question God's plan, but rather trust in God's good intentions for their personal life and destiny.


So why have the people who wrote the tulip doctrine disobeyed There founder of there faith Jean Calvin, by writing a tulip doctrine that questions Gods authority.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#48
Why is tulip a doctrine of devils is a good question

Well every person's I have spoke to concerning the tulip doctrine have all either call me evil or names or behaved like trolls

Secondly why is it Doctrine of devils

Well to deprave the depraved is disgusting.

Thirdly when I spoke to God and asked him if the tulip doctrine was true he said no

Lastly according to John Calvin Gods authority should not be questioned.

So I think it's shameful that modern day Calvinists should disrespect there church father Jean Calvin by writing a tulip doctrine that does just that
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,008
4,317
113
#49
This is a quote I found on the internet.

John Calvin quote

John Calvin quote


John Calvin is perhaps best known for his doctrine of predestination. He taught that God determined before all time who would be eternally saved and who would be condemned to hell. Christians, he said, should not question God's plan, but rather trust in God's good intentions for their personal life and destiny.


So why have the people who wrote the tulip doctrine disobeyed There founder of there faith Jean Calvin, by writing a tulip doctrine that questions Gods authority.
people don't like history, but this mindset is how the Third Reich came to kill 6 million Jews. the Elite or those who believed they were the Elect. If you look at the Doctrinal Foundation, who were the 85 at that meeting in the 1600s and the counties involved.

The class of people was one type.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#51
people don't like history, but this mindset is how the Third Reich came to kill 6 million Jews. the Elite or those who believed they were the Elect. If you look at the Doctrinal Foundation, who were the 85 at that meeting in the 1600s and the counties involved.

The class of people was one type.
yes I thought about that, its also odd that some leading bishops never turned up.

But I also wonder if this doctrine was created to shut people up.

As it looks like it was created at a time of a religious war.

It may well have been forced
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
3,902
1,495
113
#52
Here is a 300 page on Calvinism in the Bible Study Forum, I have asked other members to join this discussion.

It might be a good place for those, who say, they don't know about him, starting to learning about Calvinism, and who just recently confuse Calvary with Calvinists.


https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/predestination-is-misunderstood.214056/page-297


I don't know to be honest 😂

I've only just started to learn about calvinism

Only 2 weeks ago I thought Calvinists where the Calvary
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
3,902
1,495
113
#53
people don't like history, but this mindset is how the Third Reich came to kill 6 million Jews. the Elite or those who believed they were the Elect. If you look at the Doctrinal Foundation, who were the 85 at that meeting in the 1600s and the counties involved.

The class of people was one type.
Hi there CS1, just clarifying your statement here. You are comparing Hitler and the Nazis, with Calvinists?? Hitler was raised Catholic.


"Hitler was born to a practicing Catholic mother, Klara Hitler, and was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church; his father, Alois Hitler, was a free-thinker and skeptical of the Catholic Church. In 1904, he was confirmed at the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Linz, Austria, where the family lived."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler#:~:text=Hitler was born to a,Austria, where the family lived.

Hitler also made an agreement with the Roman Catholic Church called, The Concordat. Also, Jean Calvin left France, because he was in fear of the Catholic Church, because his beliefs were outside of Roman Catholicism.

If anything, the Catholic Church aligns more with Hitler and the Nazis, than any Protestant leader. Disagree?

Anyways, I feel your comment was fear mongering against Calvinism, and seems misguided. If anything, Protestants were the one's in fear of Catholic and Political leaders, not the other way around. The Catholic Church was/is political and had/has the power of a king.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#57

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
3,902
1,495
113
#58
Mock A dead person really.

What's mocking is creating a doctrine he never sanctioned and put his name on it
I'm gonna have to agree with Dino. Do your research.

Come back with, how what John Calvin wrote is fundamentally different, than what TULIP says. If you can do that, than maybe what you said, will mean something. If not, you are wasting time, and blowing smoke.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,559
654
113
#59
I never look at any Bible character(except Jesus) as a hero, & certainly not those during the Reformation.
We are to show them mercy, however, for there wasn't much true biblical knowledge around back then.
The Reformation was an act of God, trying to get christians to search for biblical truth for themselves.
Even though some reformers were pretty bad, they were still far better than the Catholic church at the time, or even now.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#60
I'm gonna have to agree with Dino. Do your research.

Come back with, how what John Calvin wrote is fundamentally different, than what TULIP says. If you can do that, than maybe what you said, will mean something. If not, you are wasting time, and blowing smoke.
blowing smoke is.you showing a thread where by you show something what one Calvinist has said, when actually they all say different answers to different to same questions of the same


So they are not in harmony.