Conspiracy Debunker Challenge!!

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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
The whole pencil thing is moot anyhow. The pencil wouldn't have a break in it to cause it to have the top part swing down and outward. She doesn't seem to understand that the undamaged side of WTC 2 would have acted as a fulcrum to cause the part above the impact zone to swing around that axis. It should have kept going, but the building below the impact point mysteriously crumbled.
it would have acted as a fulcrum for a fraction of a second until the force of 200,000 tons of falling structure obliterated it...after which there would no longer be anything for the upper part of the tower to pivot around...

this whole notion that the upper part of the tower should have just flopped over like a jenga game is based on a total failure to understand the forces involved...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
This was during the time they were looking for bodies.
and looking for bodies in a giant pile of rubble would have involved clearing away debris such as steel beams to get at anyone buried underneath...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
That experiment has nothing to do with this. Your experiment has to do with free fall only.... the top of the building had something under it to stop the freefall.... unless it was free falling already on its own.

I really wished you would do some real investigating instead of looking for anything that seems to agree with you....
the individual floors of the world trade center were not designed to break the fall of anything...let alone a 200,000 ton chunk of structure...all the lower part of the building would have done is to slow the upper part down a bit...

i -have- done real investigating...you and every other conspiracy theorist to post on this forum just don't know what real investigating even is...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
If you will notice the other buildings falling due to the shaking of earthquakes, They ALL give way at the ground first, falling over onto other buildings. This proves the towers, & especially building 7, were detonated. If 7 fell from trauma, the other buildings closer to the towers should have fallen also, yes?
earthquakes involve both vertical and horizontal motion...the collapse of the twin towers did not involve any significant horizontal forces...you are comparing two completely different reasons for collapse...

and actually a couple of the closer buildings were virtually blown to bits by the impact of the debris from the twin towers' fall...i guess you missed that in your 'investigation'...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Actually conspiracy theories represent a known glitch in human thinking. Someone should file a bug report.
actually conspiracy theories often represent cases of demon possession...

maybe the demons look like bugs though...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
I'm guessing you just happened to miss the photographs and videos of the cleanup effort, which do indeed show angled cuts being made. The video below effectively refutes the vast majority of photographs you've posted thus far.

[video=youtube;LJyBuANVkQ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJyBuANVkQ4[/video]
he didn't find that video in his 'investigation'?

i'm shocked...



...not
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Let's be more Jesus-like, and stop the name-calling and just agree to disagree with others on the events that brought down the towers on 9/11.
becoming 'more jesus like' would mean repenting of conspiracy theory which is by nature unchristlike...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
I suspect she's a wolf in sheep's clothing.
what sheep's clothing? her profile says she is not a christian...

if you can't even spend the ten seconds it takes 'investigate' that properly...why should anyone take you seriously when you talk about 'investigating' 9/11?
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Okay Liza, help me with this. The common argument is that the weight of the top of the buildings was too much and floor after floor was pancaked. Where does the following law of physics apply?

The Law of Momentum Conservation

The above equation is one statement of the law of momentum conservation. In a collision, the momentum change of object 1 is equal to and opposite of the momentum change of object 2. That is, the momentum lost by object 1 is equal to the momentum gained by object 2. In most collisions between two objects, one object slows down and loses momentum while the other object speeds up and gains momentum.

it is my observation that the towers can not fall at near free fall speed with a skyscraper beneath it.

Momentum Conservation Principle

So please, using this one very simple law of physics explain it to me. Without directing me elsewhere.
momentum is mass multiplied by the speed of the moving mass...

your mistake here is assuming that the upper part of the tower falling into the lower part of the tower was a simple rigid body collision...it wasn't...

this doesn't mean that the law of conservation of momentum goes out the window...but it -does- mean that the situation becomes -much- more complex than the 'ping pong ball A hits ping pong ball B' type of collision you are trying to reduce it to...

basically your argument is a -huge- oversimplification of the issue...
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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and looking for bodies in a giant pile of rubble would have involved clearing away debris such as steel beams to get at anyone buried underneath...
They only cleaned up the debris of the collapse of WTC7.


Originally Posted by Stephen63

This was during the time they were looking for bodies.


wtc 7 had been evacuated earlier that day. There was no one in the building when it collapsed.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
To begin with, the "thousands" of specialists you're referring to seems to reference a petition that was posted earlier in the thread, which represents an extremely small minority of the overall community -- and which could easily have a large quantity of false signatures, or signatures from self-proclaimed specialists that actually know very little in terms of structural engineering and architecture in general. The overall consensus is that the towers could've indeed "fallen like they did" as per the official conclusion to the investigations following the tragedy, and what I've stated thus far has yet to be comprehensively, analytically refuted. Again, "got'cha!" rhetoric that's entirely devoid of substance isn't substantive evidence, and certainly doesn't warrant a reconsideration of the official account.

You've stated that the McCormick building and the WTC's towers are a flawed comparison. They are. Contextually, I was responding to Deadtosin's assertion that "no other steel-framed building in history" has collapsed due to "fire alone," which is demonstrably untrue. The McCormick Place's exposition hall was at the time largely thought to have been fireproof due to its steel and concrete construction -- it clearly wasn't. It demonstrates that steel is clearly prone to the effects of fire, and that it doesn't have to reach its melting point in order to substantially weaken. Here's an excerpt from SteelConstruction, an informational encyclopedia on steel as it's used in structural engineering.

All materials weaken with increasing temperature and steel is no exception. Strength loss for steel is generally accepted to begin at about 300°C and increases rapidly after 400°C. By 550°C the most common grades (S275 and S355) of hot rolled structural steel retain about 60% of its room temperature yield strength.

Popular Mechanics, a widely-acclaimed engineering magazine, cites an estimate that most of the steel exposed to the fire would've lost over half its strength under direct contact with the inferno that ensued after the planes impacted the towers.

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

Again, this has to be taken into context with my original response to Deadtosin, who again asserted that "fire alone" couldn't have brought the structure down -- a claim that simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Fire's potential for structural damage in all types of buildings should never be overestimated, and this doesn't take into account the tremendous force and subsequent damage imparted by the initial impact of the airliners, or the structural damage imparted by falling debris that impacted WTC 7 that caused the structure's south facade to fail.
The McCormick building is still a flawed comparison because I have not seen proof, and the reference to still framed building was for still framed high rises/skyscrapers. McCormick is still framed, but it is not a high rise/skyscraper type building.
Show me proof of a skyscraper building that has totally collapsed from fire damage....
 
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They only cleaned up the debris of the collapse of WTC7.


Originally Posted by Stephen63

This was during the time they were looking for bodies.


wtc 7 had been evacuated earlier that day. There was no one in the building when it collapsed.
My pics were of the towers, not building 7.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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My pics were of the towers, not building 7.
Yes I know..I had said that in response to Liza's post about moving rubble looking for bodies. Thanks for the correction though. :)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Simple procedure:
I watch Prof Niels Video. In the dusk from the debris, he put a magnet and some of the dusk stick in the magnet.

Magnet pull iron.

The fact the dusk stick to the magnet is evident it is iron dusk.


Fuel jet flame in open air is only 400 + F not even melt steel

only nano thermit or commercial thermit turn steel into dusk

It is evident of demolition.

It need 6 months to prepare this kind of demolition.

If it Osama team working there, make holes on every ceiling. In a week FBI will notice.

I heard, the security chief had been order to let a team work to make a hole in the ceiling for electrical purpose.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
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An interesting thread. Pity it got a bit nasty in the end. For me the WTC7 collapse defies logic but I can accept for some, the implications of this is just too hard to comprehend.
 
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GaryA

Guest
An interesting thread. Pity it got a bit nasty in the end. For me the WTC7 collapse defies logic but I can accept for some, the implications of this is just too hard to comprehend.
For many - the implications are easy enough to comprehend --- just too hard to accept... ;)

It becomes much more easy to both comprehend and accept when one better understands their greatest enemy - Satan -- and what this verse of scripture is saying:


Ephesians 6:

[SUP]12[/SUP] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.



:)
 

chootchooot

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2012
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It is obviously controlled demolition... professional demolition companies take months to rig a building to make sure they fall into their own footprint and don't tip over and destroy surrounding buildings. Still sometimes they mess up and the building will collapse a couple floors and then remain standing or tip over. Also to anyone who argues that the small fires on the side of the building cause it to collapse, well if that were the case the building would have tipped over...