FLAT EARTH
- Thread starter mcubed
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Maybe, or maybe God was still preparing the Earth for us. If flora and fauna were part of the needs, but if we didn't have to worry about death until sin entered... why was everything designed with the ability and need to eat? If you can't starve to death, why eat? Or were our bodies still able to emaciate and deteriorate as cells broke down, but we would be unable to die?
Or were foods a luxury back then?
One person volunteered that sharp toothed dinosaurs ate coconuts (because teeth were great for it)
But we now have the conundrum of why are most of the carnivores blatantly built to be killing machines?
Did like warp and change the second the curse hit?
Did the seven days God created things in before have a huge gap between then and when Adam actually started tracking his age?
Did Adam's age countdown only begin when he was thrown out, and was there millions of years for life to change and divert?
The flood easily explains the mass extinction of say dinosaurs. But I'm not 100% convinced of some of the arguments in that area.
But only one fact matters: Whether or not something makes sense is irrelevant. All that matters is that it's real or not. And if God's word is true then none of those questions matter.
Or were foods a luxury back then?
One person volunteered that sharp toothed dinosaurs ate coconuts (because teeth were great for it)
But we now have the conundrum of why are most of the carnivores blatantly built to be killing machines?
Did like warp and change the second the curse hit?
Did the seven days God created things in before have a huge gap between then and when Adam actually started tracking his age?
Did Adam's age countdown only begin when he was thrown out, and was there millions of years for life to change and divert?
The flood easily explains the mass extinction of say dinosaurs. But I'm not 100% convinced of some of the arguments in that area.
But only one fact matters: Whether or not something makes sense is irrelevant. All that matters is that it's real or not. And if God's word is true then none of those questions matter.
Right. They could break down. But just because a body breaks down or grows malnourished doesn't mean it dies.
Revelation DOES say that in the last days, men will seek death but it will flee from them. So we know such a situation is possible.
And to quote some of my favorite dark fantasy genres, you do see characters who have slept for thousands of years unnourished, weak at awakening, but not able to die in that fashion. (Granted fantasy is fantasy but it illustrates the point).
For all we know, if Adam didn't eat he'd just pass out until Eve shoved some applesauce down his throat later.
Revelation DOES say that in the last days, men will seek death but it will flee from them. So we know such a situation is possible.
And to quote some of my favorite dark fantasy genres, you do see characters who have slept for thousands of years unnourished, weak at awakening, but not able to die in that fashion. (Granted fantasy is fantasy but it illustrates the point).
For all we know, if Adam didn't eat he'd just pass out until Eve shoved some applesauce down his throat later.
-
1
- Show all
The Rev verse is about people wanting to die because of their tribulation.
The locusts were not given power to kill them, but only to torment them for five months, and their torment was like the stinging of a scorpion. In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, but death will escape them. And the locusts looked like horses prepared for battle, with something like crowns of gold on their heads, and faces like the faces of men.
The locusts were not given power to kill them, but only to torment them for five months, and their torment was like the stinging of a scorpion. In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, but death will escape them. And the locusts looked like horses prepared for battle, with something like crowns of gold on their heads, and faces like the faces of men.
Fair enough but I noticed something too, it happens after they take the mark.
But the point illustrated here is that God does have the power to disjoint death from physical condition. For example, imagine if those people tried to hurl themselves off a building and succeeded.
Imagine all that splattered pain and broken bones. Or shooting themselves.
We have two possibilities: 1) Any attempt to INFLICT fatal injury on themselves will be mysteriously disrupted via something (oops you got lucky and landed on a car and God decided to keep you from injury that would be fatal) or 2) You can sustain all the injuries you want, drink all the poison you want, and you still won't die but BOY will you be miserable!
Not to be morbid of course, but it's a fair consideration.
If death entered the world via sin, we have a similar conundrum in Eden. If Adam could hit his head and it would hurt, then he can take injury. The question is, would his spirit still remain locked and connected to his body (thus preventing death) regardless of any injury sustained?
Or if he hit his head on a rock, would the rock simply break and he'd take no damage? Or would he somehow managed to miss the rock if he fell over towards it?
My postulation and thoughts are more on the "mechanics" and "how does all that work."
Lack of answers doesn't hurt my faith in God and in Christ. But they are indeed fair questions to ask or be asked.
But the point illustrated here is that God does have the power to disjoint death from physical condition. For example, imagine if those people tried to hurl themselves off a building and succeeded.
Imagine all that splattered pain and broken bones. Or shooting themselves.
We have two possibilities: 1) Any attempt to INFLICT fatal injury on themselves will be mysteriously disrupted via something (oops you got lucky and landed on a car and God decided to keep you from injury that would be fatal) or 2) You can sustain all the injuries you want, drink all the poison you want, and you still won't die but BOY will you be miserable!
Not to be morbid of course, but it's a fair consideration.
If death entered the world via sin, we have a similar conundrum in Eden. If Adam could hit his head and it would hurt, then he can take injury. The question is, would his spirit still remain locked and connected to his body (thus preventing death) regardless of any injury sustained?
Or if he hit his head on a rock, would the rock simply break and he'd take no damage? Or would he somehow managed to miss the rock if he fell over towards it?
My postulation and thoughts are more on the "mechanics" and "how does all that work."
Lack of answers doesn't hurt my faith in God and in Christ. But they are indeed fair questions to ask or be asked.
I see a third possibility also, because many people at some point in their life find themselves in some situation that is so painful they do want to die, but fear death, and are too ------ (insert word of choice) to off themselves. And do you know, that fear of death is named as the reason people are in bondage to sin?
Fear of death is the reason people are in bondage to sin?
I'd need a verse to back that one up (of course I'm not meaning that confrontationally.)
You know I really enjoy these discussions with you. You're very honest, straightforward and understanding.
That third possibility though, actually that did come to mind after I posted. That people would seek it or want it, but in their mind might be put such a terror or fear to go through the pain of dying that it'd stop them.
That was actually what stopped me from making a choice like that. Since I couldn't make the thoughts stop because of the emotional wreck I was in, I allowed myself to go through the motions of preparing to do it up to the last point. It was "Fine if you really want it, do it. But if you don't really want this, get out of my head. Put up or shut up."
It was admittedly a dangerous gamble. But it was the only way to know if it was truly what I wanted or not. And if it wasn't truly what I wanted, I could forever expose it as a lie to myself and discard it, knowing for certain.
At that moment was when I collapsed on the kitchen floor as all that tensions left because in the end I just realized I was lost, terrified, and hurting.
And that was when I prayed for the first time in years and found myself properly returning to Christ. I got a call from some Mormon missionaries a few days later.
Mormonism itself was a false path, but it got me back into reading the Bible. Once I'd shed that shell and went back to basics, I took that final step back on track to a proper relationship with Christ and with God (and discarded the Mormon doctrines).
So I can relate to that 3rd possibility.
I'd need a verse to back that one up (of course I'm not meaning that confrontationally.)
You know I really enjoy these discussions with you. You're very honest, straightforward and understanding.
That third possibility though, actually that did come to mind after I posted. That people would seek it or want it, but in their mind might be put such a terror or fear to go through the pain of dying that it'd stop them.
That was actually what stopped me from making a choice like that. Since I couldn't make the thoughts stop because of the emotional wreck I was in, I allowed myself to go through the motions of preparing to do it up to the last point. It was "Fine if you really want it, do it. But if you don't really want this, get out of my head. Put up or shut up."
It was admittedly a dangerous gamble. But it was the only way to know if it was truly what I wanted or not. And if it wasn't truly what I wanted, I could forever expose it as a lie to myself and discard it, knowing for certain.
At that moment was when I collapsed on the kitchen floor as all that tensions left because in the end I just realized I was lost, terrified, and hurting.
And that was when I prayed for the first time in years and found myself properly returning to Christ. I got a call from some Mormon missionaries a few days later.
Mormonism itself was a false path, but it got me back into reading the Bible. Once I'd shed that shell and went back to basics, I took that final step back on track to a proper relationship with Christ and with God (and discarded the Mormon doctrines).
So I can relate to that 3rd possibility.
-
1
- Show all
Thank you for that 
All of it
I am glad you did not go through with your plan of implementing a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
The verse you are looking for in relation to fear of death being the cause of man's bondage to sin is Hebrews 2:15
I will start with verse 14: Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
Quite a golden nugget, huh?
Some of my personal testimony is in my Scripture Art thread
All of it I am glad you did not go through with your plan of implementing a permanent solution for a temporary problem
. The verse you are looking for in relation to fear of death being the cause of man's bondage to sin is Hebrews 2:15
I will start with verse 14: Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
Quite a golden nugget, huh?
Some of my personal testimony is in my Scripture Art thread
Interesting. Basically we have death to fear because of sin, but people won't hesitate to use sin to try to prevent death (look at all the people who have died in pursuit of a perfect utopian world or that false fountain of youth (abortions for stem cell research, etc).)
But if we fear death, it's all the more reason to turn to Christ. A constructive and holy solution instead of choosing an unholy and sinful one.
But if we fear death, it's all the more reason to turn to Christ. A constructive and holy solution instead of choosing an unholy and sinful one.
-
1
- Show all
Going back to Genesis in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, they chose to eat from the forbidden tree that would be the cause of their death, instead of eating from the Tree of Life... so it makes me wonder if the same factor was in play for them. Of course, Satan lied to Eve and contradicted what God said, and she believed him over God, for she was deceived. A parallel is drawn there in 1 John 2:16~ For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. It occurred to me recently that in eating the forbidden fruit, Adam valued the life he thought he could have above the life God promised him.
They were still living physical beings and physical beings require food to maintain life. What would have kept them from physical death (as we know it) was access to the tree of life that was at the center of the Garden of Eden (along with the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil).
Genesis 2:9 ESV
9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:9 ESV
9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
I can't think of very many places where I can get the particular specific POV of @Moses_Young - which is what I am interested in - and - what I asked for.
I have done plenty of research - only, "not lately" - due to computer problems and other things.
I have done plenty of research - only, "not lately" - due to computer problems and other things.
As a simple example, using trignometry, I don't think the sun should drop as low as it does on the horizon. Or, if it did drop so low, it would be signicantly outside the circle of the Flat Earth, which doesn't make sense with observations from elsewhere (e.g. such as the sun being overhead at other locations).
The accepted distances of the Earth don't allow for the sun to drop so low on the horizon, even if it is as close as it is. There is something else at play, which is why I try to shy away from proofs of Flat Earth utilising heavenly bodies, as we don't understand them fully. As you would be aware, heliocentricity is likewise full of plot holes, but heliocentrists reject these and make up excuses (other theories) to explain them.
The accepted distances of the Earth don't allow for the sun to drop so low on the horizon, even if it is as close as it is. There is something else at play, which is why I try to shy away from proofs of Flat Earth utilising heavenly bodies, as we don't understand them fully. As you would be aware, heliocentricity is likewise full of plot holes, but heliocentrists reject these and make up excuses (other theories) to explain them.
That "something else at play" is the moisture in the air - which causes the effect of what we see as the sun "coming up" or "going down" at the horizon. This effect is not caused by the sun moving up or down; rather, the sun is at the same height and simply "moving closer" or "moving away"...
Due to the moisture in the air - the more 'horizontal' the angle (the further away the sun is from us) - the less light we can see. This is easily proven. Think about automobile headlights in a fog. How far can you see through a fog? A fraction of the distance you can see when there is considerably less moisture in the air.
It also tends to enlarge the apparent size of the sun in the distance. The less moisture in the air (between us and the sun) - the longer, further, and smaller the sun will 'track' as it "comes up" or "goes down"...
Ever notice how the size, brightness, clarity, and color of the sun at-or-near the horizon varies?
This is due to different amounts of moisture in the air between us and the sun.
It is a false assumption that the light from the sun can always be seen at an infinite distance.
I depends on conditions in the atmosphere.
Due to the moisture in the air - the more 'horizontal' the angle (the further away the sun is from us) - the less light we can see. This is easily proven. Think about automobile headlights in a fog. How far can you see through a fog? A fraction of the distance you can see when there is considerably less moisture in the air.
It also tends to enlarge the apparent size of the sun in the distance. The less moisture in the air (between us and the sun) - the longer, further, and smaller the sun will 'track' as it "comes up" or "goes down"...
Ever notice how the size, brightness, clarity, and color of the sun at-or-near the horizon varies?
This is due to different amounts of moisture in the air between us and the sun.
It is a false assumption that the light from the sun can always be seen at an infinite distance.
I depends on conditions in the atmosphere.
-
1
- Show all