If the Rapture is true, just who are the saints beheaded by the Antichrist?

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
Tribulation Saints....a unique specific group, a subset of the greater set of the first resurrection.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Tribulation Saints....a unique specific group, a subset of the greater set of the first resurrection.

There are no subsets. That's been invented to support invented pretrib doctrine. Saints are just saints. Those who are alive prior to great tribb will experience that tribulation from satan while his two beasts rule the world. The church is very much on Earth during that time period. God's wrath will come after rapture happens which only happens when the GT is over. That's what the Olivet Discourse and Revelation teach. Neither teach a pretrib rapture.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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There are no subsets. That's been invented to support invented pretrib doctrine. Saints are just saints. Those who are alive prior to great tribb will experience that tribulation from satan while his two beasts rule the world. The church is very much on Earth during that time period. God's wrath will come after rapture happens which only happens when the GT is over. That's what the Olivet Discourse and Revelation teach. Neither teach a pretrib rapture.
An opinion that is the result of shoddy incomplete lackasdaisical scholarship.....IMO.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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An opinion that is the result of shoddy incomplete lackasdaisical scholarship.....IMO.
I don't take anything you say seriously as you spam the same unsupported nonsense in nearly every post you make.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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Does anyone have a citation because I don't remember the Bible mentioning anyone being beheaded by the antichrist?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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Does anyone have a citation because I don't remember the Bible mentioning anyone being beheaded by the antichrist?
Revelation 20:4

'beheaded' - yes

by the 'beast' - probable, from the context

by the 'antichrist' - no, it does not actually say that
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Does anyone have a citation because I don't remember the Bible mentioning anyone being beheaded by the antichrist?
Rev doesn't use the term. It uses "false prophet" but it's the same person John wrote in his epistles. It's unlikely Antichrist does the killings himself but has underlings do it like how the leader of Roman's had soldiers kill Jesus rather than doing it himself.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
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So, I'm allowing myself to post a question, because when I asked a pastor of a church for the answer, he had none. This pastor believed in pre-tribulation rapture, but didn't understand it enough, to understand some basic principles.

Just want to say, that teaching pre-tribulation rapture is false, and would highly encourage you to stop teaching this non-sense. I think it caught on, because people want to believe, life will be easy, so no way, God would allow me to go through trials like Jesus, the Hebrews, and the early church did. Ha! Let me laugh some more...ha hah ha! HA!

Where is the Bible does it say, being a believer is easy? It doesn't, so expect the unexpected, especially if you believe the pre-tribulation rapture.

With that said, for those who believe in the pre-tirbulation rapture, at what point/at what event, would you change your mind that the pre-tribulation rapture is false?

In other words, what future event, if any, would you change your mind about pre-tribulation rapture?


Just to show, that I'm not above answering my own questions, I would say, if Jesus returned before the tribulation, and I was caught up in the clouds, and still saw life going on as normal on earth, this would change my mind. There is no way, that's gonna happen in that order, but at least it was an honest answer.

I feel strongly about this topic, because pre-trib rapture is false. Once again, i think the pre-tribulation rapture is false, and feel ashamed, that their are so many people that believe in this. Sad!
 

lawrence101

Active member
Jan 25, 2019
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So, I'm allowing myself to post a question, because when I asked a pastor of a church for the answer, he had none. This pastor believed in pre-tribulation rapture, but didn't understand it enough, to understand some basic principles.

Just want to say, that teaching pre-tribulation rapture is false, and would highly encourage you to stop teaching this non-sense. I think it caught on, because people want to believe, life will be easy, so no way, God would allow me to go through trials like Jesus, the Hebrews, and the early church did. Ha! Let me laugh some more...ha hah ha! HA!

Where is the Bible does it say, being a believer is easy? It doesn't, so expect the unexpected, especially if you believe the pre-tribulation rapture.

With that said, for those who believe in the pre-tirbulation rapture, at what point/at what event, would you change your mind that the pre-tribulation rapture is false?

In other words, what future event, if any, would you change your mind about pre-tribulation rapture?


Just to show, that I'm not above answering my own questions, I would say, if Jesus returned before the tribulation, and I was caught up in the clouds, and still saw life going on as normal on earth, this would change my mind. There is no way, that's gonna happen in that order, but at least it was an honest answer.

I feel strongly about this topic, because pre-trib rapture is false. Once again, i think the pre-tribulation rapture is false, and feel ashamed, that their are so many people that believe in this. Sad!
...and you have the right to your own wrong opinion.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
2,704
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...and you have the right to your own wrong opinion.
So, you criticized my post, claim it's wrong, and not answer the question. I'm really seeing a pattern over the many years talking to people who believe in this doctrine.

This is over years talking to pastors and followers who follow the pastors in this Kirk Cameron propaganda.

Look if you can't answer the question, just admit it. If anyone else would like to take a swing, please feel free to do so. You would be doing more than the pastors who teach this stuff. lol
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
It will be those who get saved during the tribulation, especially those who were Christian in name only. Something like 90% or more of churchgoers are not saved.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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How can 'the church' be removed and yet other believers remain to be beheaded? That doesn't square. How does God decide who stays and who leaves? Something isn't right about the rapture teaching.
It is rather more complex than most people understand. The parable of the wise and foolish virgins gives a clue.
 

lawrence101

Active member
Jan 25, 2019
352
118
43
canada
So, you criticized my post, claim it's wrong, and not answer the question. I'm really seeing a pattern over the many years talking to people who believe in this doctrine.

This is over years talking to pastors and followers who follow the pastors in this Kirk Cameron propaganda.

Look if you can't answer the question, just admit it. If anyone else would like to take a swing, please feel free to do so. You would be doing more than the pastors who teach this stuff. lol
No, its you that's making the accussations . The false post-trib doctine has bin debunked many times over on this forum and on many others . I wont waste my time here.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
2,704
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No, its you that's making the accussations . The false post-trib doctine has bin debunked many times over on this forum and on many others . I wont waste my time here.
Here's the question again, if you missed it.


In other words, what future event, if any, would you change your mind about pre-tribulation rapture?
 

lawrence101

Active member
Jan 25, 2019
352
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43
canada
Here's the question again, if you missed it.
The future event that going to shock you ( and many others ) is when the true born again believers are removed from the this present world before the great tribulation takes place.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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The future event that going to shock you ( and many others ) is when the true born again believers are removed from the this present world before the great tribulation takes place.
You got it all wrong. Scripture 100% supports post-tribulation rapture. This isn't a debate; I'm teaching you.

Matthew 24:29-31 clearly says that the rapture happens after the Great Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 clearly says that the Antichrist will be revealed before the rapture.

Revelation 20:4-6 says that saints who were killed during the mark of the beast period – the Great Tribulation – would be part of the “first” resurrection. This conflicts with the pre-tribulation rapture theory, which states that the first resurrection happens before the mark of the beast.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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You got it all wrong. Scripture 100% supports post-tribulation rapture. This isn't a debate; I'm teaching you.

Matthew 24:29-31 clearly says that the rapture happens after the Great Tribulation.
There is no "harpazo [G726; SNATCH / caught up]" word or idea in Matthew 24:29-31 (instead, Matthew 24:29-31 corresponds with Isaiah 27:9[Rom11:27],12-13--note WHO is being "gathered" and TO WHERE, and IN WHAT MANNER: "ONE BY ONE" (not AS ONE, as we will be at "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]")]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 clearly says that the Antichrist will be revealed before the rapture.
The text does not convey this. IOW, it does NOT state "and the man of sin BE REVEALED *FIRST*"...



Instead, it states that "...BECAUSE [conj] that day [(italics)...the time period having been spoken of from verse 2, the DOTL earthly time period of judgments] will not be present unless shall have come" ...ONE THING *FIRST* (unless shall have come "THE Departure *FIRST*"--i.e. the Subject PAUL v.1 was bringing to bear on the problem / matter [the problem being re: the FALSE CLAIMANTS' purporting that it "IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]" v.2).

Not grasping what Subject v.2 is about causes many to take a mis-step in interpreting this passage, esp. the following verse, in particular v.3a (the particle of qualified NEGATION... and what IT is pointing BACK TO--->[v.2's Subject])