ISIS and Israel's "Yinon Plan" - Major expansion of Israel borders?

[1still_waters]

I see all of these conspiracy theories, and usually write them off. But they do stay tucked away in the back of my mind. One of these theories is the Yinon Plan. Supposedly Israel has plans to destabilize the region then greatly expand their borders.

Below is a map of the supposed Yinon Plan borders.

I compared the borders to the region of land ISIS controls, and the borders seem to roughly fit.

So let's just say there is something to this theory.

Could ISIS be used as justification for a major invasion by Israel in the future?
ISIS is threatening Jordan now, and Israel IS supposedly threatening to intervene if this happens.
Israel to Intervene If ISIS Threatens Jordan Stability? | HonestReporting

Let's say ISIS gains control of Jordan, and then controls Syria too.
Then let's say ISIS uses that as a launching pad to attack Israel.
In return Israel could order a major invasion of the ISIS controlled land.
If successful, Israel's occupied land would match the Yinon Plan borders fairly well.

Keep in mind Israel is also currently being attacked from Gaza, and sometimes even from Lebanon.
This could also further spur Israel invasion of these territories, further creating occupied land that fits the Yinon Plan.
Israel Mobilizes 20,000 Troops for Possible Gaza Invasion - Bloomberg

I'm not too familiar with the motivations behind this theory. The motivations may be anti-semitic.

Regardless it is interesting that ISIS is severely destabilizing the region, and the land they now control fits some of the Yinon Plan's borders. If they pose a threat to Israel, Israel would be VERY justified in mounting a land invasion to control that land.

I'm cautious of linking to sites which further explain this theory. Those sites may be anti-semitic. Some of the sites speak of NATO plans to destabilize the region, and divide the Middle East. I don't know how much of this is meant to foment anti-Jew hysteria.

 

[1still_waters]

Re: ISIS and Israel's "Yinon Plan"

This really is interesting. Compare the Yinon Plan borders with the ISIS border plans.

Here's another proposed Yinon Plan map.

Sorry but this is pretty dog gone interesting at this point, considering Israel would be 100% justified in invading ISIS controlled land and occupying it.

Report: Israel, US prepared to help Jordan fight ISIS | JPost | Israel News

Israel Mobilizes 20,000 Troops for Possible Gaza Invasion - Bloomberg

 

[secularhermit]

Here, my communist country, I´m listening objections to it, since Venezuela is against Israel (the Canadian Embassy is in charge of the embassy of Israel "businesses" in Caracas).

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

actually this doesn't look like a very good match at all...for one thing the islamic state's borders go way past the euphrates and stop well short of the nile...

also note that the conspiracy theorists can't even agree on what israel's secret planned borders are...the two 'greater israel' maps you posted are different by thousands of square miles...

furthermore israel doesn't even have enough troops to occupy this entire region...note that it includes half of iraq or more...even the most advanced military in the world had a very difficult time keeping more than half of iraq under control during the iraq war...

finally israel has been -giving up- territory since the 1970s...including part of the golan heights...the sinai peninsula...southern lebanon...and most recently the gaza strip... apparently they didn't get the memo...

really if you are into conspiracy theories it would be far more sensible to suggest that the rise of ISIS was orchestrated by iran...which actually -has- sent troops into iraq and syria to fight against ISIS...

so yes this stuff is just another big rumor intended to create anti semitic paranoia...

 

[Stephen63]

I'm just curious as to who ISIS is, where did they come from outta thin air, & who's funding & weaponizing them? This is a mighty big group to simply come from nothing.

 

[Ella85]

I'm just curious as to who ISIS is, where did they come from outta thin air, & who's funding & weaponizing them? This is a mighty big group to simply come from nothing.

ISIS = ANTICHRIST
they are against Christians & other religions that do not follow what they believe in.



Wikipedia
Sunni and Shia Islam are the two major denominations of Islam. The demographic breakdown between the two denominations is difficult to assess and varies by source, but a good approximation is that 87–89% of the world’sMuslims are Sunni[SUP][1][/SUP] and 11-12% are Shia,[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] with most Shias belonging to the Twelver tradition and the rest divided between several other groups.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Sunnis are a majority in most Muslim communities: in Southeast Asia, China, South Asia, Africa, and most of the Arab world. Shia make up the majority of the citizen population in Iran, Iraq, and Bahrain, as well as being a politically significant minority in Lebanon. Azerbaijan is predominantly Shia; however, practicing adherents are much lower.[SUP][4][/SUP]Pakistan has the largest Sunni and second-largest Shia Muslim (Twelver) population in the world.
The historic background of the Sunni–Shia split lies in the schism that occurred when the Islamic prophet Muhammaddied in the year 632, leading to a dispute over succession to Muhammad as a caliph of the Islamic community spread across various parts of the world, which led to the Battle of Siffin. The dispute intensified greatly after the Battle of Karbala, in which Hussein ibn Ali and his household were killed by the ruling Umayyad Caliph Yazid I, and the outcry for his revenge divided the early Islamic community. Today there are differences in religious practice, traditions, and customs, often related to jurisprudence. Although all Muslim groups consider the Quran to be divine, Sunni and Shia have different opinions on hadith.
Over the years, Sunni–Shia relations have been marked by both cooperation and conflict. Sectarian violence persists to this day from Pakistan to Yemen and is a major element of friction throughout the Middle East.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] Tensions between communities have intensified during power struggles, such as the Bahraini uprising, the Iraq War, and most recently theSyrian Civil War[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP] and the formation of the self-styled Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant and its advancement on Syria and Northern Iraq.



As you imagine there are millions of these terrorist groups all over the world/muslims, so they will fight for their Allah and form a caliphate -



A caliphate (in Arabic: خلافة‎ khilāfa, meaning "succession") is an Islamic state led by a supreme religious and political leader known as a caliph – i.e. "successor" – to Muhammad. The succession of Muslim empires that have existed in theMuslim world are usually described as "caliphates". Conceptually, a caliphate represents a sovereign polity (state) of the entire Muslim faithful (the Ummah, i.e. a sovereign nation state) ruled by a single caliph under the Constitution of Medina and Islamic law (sharia).[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
In its earliest days, the first caliphate, the Rashidun Caliphate, exhibited elements of direct democracy (shura).[SUP][1][/SUP] It was led, at first, by Muhammad's immediate disciples and family as a continuation of the religious systems he had introduced.
The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.[SUP][2][/SUP] Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a caliph should be an Imam chosen by God (Allah) from theAhl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendents). From the end of the Rashidun period until 1924, caliphates, sometimes two at a single time, real and illusory, were ruled by dynasties. The first of these was theUmayyad dynasty, followed by the several other sometimes competing claimants and finally the Ottoman dynasty.Ahmadiyya Caliphate, though non-political, has been the only Caliphate in existence for the past century.[SUP][3][/SUP]
The caliphate was "the core leader concept of Sunni Islam, by the consensus of the Muslim majority in the early centuries".[SUP][4][/SUP]

 

[1still_waters]

actually this doesn't look like a very good match at all...for one thing the islamic state's borders go way past the euphrates and stop well short of the nile...

also note that the conspiracy theorists can't even agree on what israel's secret planned borders are...the two 'greater israel' maps you posted are different by thousands of square miles...

furthermore israel doesn't even have enough troops to occupy this entire region...note that it includes half of iraq or more...even the most advanced military in the world had a very difficult time keeping more than half of iraq under control during the iraq war...

finally israel has been -giving up- territory since the 1970s...including part of the golan heights...the sinai peninsula...southern lebanon...and most recently the gaza strip... apparently they didn't get the memo...

really if you are into conspiracy theories it would be far more sensible to suggest that the rise of ISIS was orchestrated by iran...which actually -has- sent troops into iraq and syria to fight against ISIS...

so yes this stuff is just another big rumor intended to create anti semitic paranoia...

Yes some of this can be minimized and swept under the carpet by pointing out some of the finer details and in splitting some geographical hairs.

Yet in general, said theory says there is a general area of land Israel wants to control. Yes some theories disagree on the specifics. But in general, all theories point to a general swath of land. A general area of land supposedly intentionally destabilized to justify an Israeli invasion and occupation.

Some of that general area of land is now controlled by ISIS. ISIS also has their eye on occupying more of that general area of land.

Again, yes on the finer details, this isn't an exact match either way. But we don't need an exact match to at least find it interesting that ISIS now occupies and wants to occupy a general area of land that also happens to somewhat match a segment of land we see in a conspiracy theory.

Look at generalities and not specifics.
It's highly interesting, and makes me wonder.

Compare the general land outlines in the maps below.
Yup, specifics differ, but in general, it's a broad match.

And yes, ISIS doesn't control Gaza or Sinai, but as I've shown, Israel is potentially planning an invasion of Gaza.

And yes, Israel has given up land in the past. That doesn't mean they couldn't take some in the future. In fact, the fact that giving up land has made them more subject to terrorist attacks, might justify expanding their borders.

Also Israel has an ally name NATO which has strategic interests in the area. They could assist in an invasion and occupation.

This theory may be meant to foment anti-Jew hysteria. Regardless it's just interesting to me that the ISIS land occupation in general is a general match for the land area of the conspiracy theory.

 

[1still_waters]

Conspiracy theorizing is partially creative writing, so here is some creative writing.
Maybe this has nothing to do with meddling of Israel. Maybe NATO needs justification for a land invasion. This could reflect the meddling of NATO to destabilize the region in hopes of justifying an invasion on humanitarian grounds and maybe security grounds.

If occupied, the land would generally mirror a revived Babylonian Empire. Maybe that is where Pope Francis steps in and offers to broker a regional peace of sorts?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Conspiracy theorizing is partially creative writing, so here is some creative writing.
Maybe this has nothing to do with meddling of Israel. Maybe NATO needs justification for a land invasion. This could reflect the meddling of NATO to destabilize the region in hopes of justifying an invasion on humanitarian grounds and maybe security grounds.

If occupied, the land would generally mirror a revived Babylonian Empire. Maybe that is where Pope Francis steps in and offers to broker a regional peace of sorts?

since we are apparently just dealing in vague geographical similarities...here are a few other maps that show territories similar to what ISIS is claiming...

the assyrian empire...


the neo babylonian empire...


the roman empire at its greatest extent...note the shape of its middle eastern territorial holdings...


the sassanid persian empire...note the shape of its territorial holdings outside of the persian homeland...


the ottoman empire...note its middle eastern territorial holdings...


and in modern times...the 'shiite crescent' area of domination supposedly coveted by iran...


i could also include the akkadian empire under sargon...the first real empire in history...which began to control a large part of this same general territory...

basically ISIS's territorial claims have a generic similarity to the middle eastern territorial holdings and claims of various empires of the past 4,300 years...now either this 'coincidence' is due to a global conspiracy spanning over four millennia...or there is a simpler reason for the similarities...

of course the second possibility is the correct one...here is a map of the 'fertile crescent'...

this is basically the agriculturally productive part of the middle east...

so the shape of ISIS's territorial claims is not dictated by an editorial written in 1982...(more on that in my next post)...instead this is just the geographically dictated shape of middle eastern empires since the dawn of history...

 

[1still_waters]

since we are apparently just dealing in vague geographical similarities...here are a few other maps that show territories similar to what ISIS is claiming...

the assyrian empire...
View attachment 83276

the neo babylonian empire...
View attachment 83277

the roman empire at its greatest extent...note the shape of its middle eastern territorial holdings...
View attachment 83278

the sassanid persian empire...note the shape of its territorial holdings outside of the persian homeland...
View attachment 83279

the ottoman empire...note its middle eastern territorial holdings...
View attachment 83281

and in modern times...the 'shiite crescent' area of domination supposedly coveted by iran...
View attachment 83280

i could also include the akkadian empire under sargon...the first real empire in history...which began to control a large part of this same general territory...

basically ISIS's territorial claims have a generic similarity to the middle eastern territorial holdings and claims of various empires of the past 4,300 years...now either this 'coincidence' is due to a global conspiracy spanning over four millennia...or there is a simpler reason for the similarities...

of course the second possibility is the correct one...here is a map of the 'fertile crescent'...
View attachment 83282
this is basically the agriculturally productive part of the middle east...

so the shape of ISIS's territorial claims is not dictated by an editorial written in 1982...(more on that in my next post)...instead this is just the geographically dictated shape of middle eastern empires since the dawn of history...

And a group that just came out of nowhere now controls or has ambitions to control that general region of land. That group that just came out of nowhere has destabilized the region, and is threatening to invade Jordan, which could cause Israel to act against it. You can't blur the lines and sweep it under the carpet by saying ISIS territorial ambitions match fertile crescent ambitions of past empires. Sorry, but it's just interesting that this group happens to come up out of nowhere, and their ambitions match the map. No amount of hair splitting or line blurring takes away that fact. *shrugs*

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

it is also important to understand the origin of this so called 'yinon plan' conspiracy theory...and how the source document has been ridiculously misrepresented and completely blown out of proportion...

basically oded yinon was an israeli journalist...for a while he covered israel's ministry of foreign affairs...in 1982 he wrote up his personal opinions in an editorial called 'a strategy for israel in the nineteen eighties' in the journal of the world zionist organization...

most of yinon's essay consists of observations of what he believed was likely to happen regardless of the actions of the israeli government... yinon viewed most of the arab states as internally divided and therefore inherently unstable and likely to collapse on their own eventually...but he felt that it could be to israel's advantage to speed the process along...

it cannot be stressed enough that at no point in yinon's essay does he actually suggest annexing any of the fragmented states he envisioned into some sort of 'greater israel' empire... in fact he actually indicated that he was not opposed to israel -giving up- territory...specifically he supported the establishment of a new druze state in the golan heights... the only land yinon advocated seizing was the sinai peninsula...he thought returning it to egypt had been a mistake that seriously jeopardized the survival of israel...

it is important also to note that many of yinon's notions were diametrically opposed to israel's past and current policies... for example yinon argued that israel would benefit if jordan's king were deposed and the country came under the control of its disenfranchised palestinian majority...but for some time the israeli government has actually been helping to -prop up- the king of jordan... also as i mentioned before he advocated retaking the sinai peninsula from egypt...but in fact over the past couple of decades israel has not only left the sinai peninsula alone but actually consented to increasing militarization of the sinai by egypt... most significantly yinon was against continued israeli dependence on the united states...but since his essay was published israel has become more dependent on and deferent to the united states than ever...

additionally it is important to realize that many of yinon's suggestions came from a misreading of the geopolitical situation the world was entering...notions that have been disproved in the following decades...to the point that it would be foolish for any israeli government to attempt to follow his logic as the basis of some sort of 'plan'... for one thing yinon viewed the soviet union as a permanent fixture and a superpower whose rise would be unchecked by the united states until a nuclear war between the western and soviet blocs...he saw the belligerence of israel's arab neighbors as easy to deal with and assumed that the real threat to israel was the soviet union...of course this was all dramatically disproved less than ten years later... yinon also assumed that the house of saud was weak and unable to wield much influence outside of riyadh or even to defend its borders effectively... and as i hinted at before yinon even believed israel was unlikely to survive without the sinai peninsula and would fail in a matter of years if the sinai was not speedily regained...

again i should stress that this was all contained in a single editorial written by an israeli journalist...one in which mass annexation of vast tracts of middle eastern territory was not even suggested...

yinon's essay was translated by an israeli anti zionist and published by an anti zionist arab american advocacy group as part of a collection it referred to as 'special documents'...the translator's foreword and conclusion and the publisher's preface totally misrepresented yinon's essay as an actual strategy document of the israeli government...moreover the translator's foreword and conclusion branches off into unsubstantiated conjecture about 'the military background of the plan'...the translator also couldn't resist the common anti zionist pattern of comparing israel to hitler and calls jewish americans who support israel 'more stalinist than stalin'...he even follows the common anti semitic pattern of bringing up 'the biblical genocides committed by jews'

by the way...how do i know all this? i actually bothered to go and read yinon's essay! this is something that most conspiracy theory advocates apparently don't feel any necessity to do...

so that suspicion that this stuff is just meant to foment anti jewish hysteria...?

suspicion confirmed!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

And a group that just came out of nowhere now controls or has ambitions to control that general region of land. That group that just came out of nowhere has destabilized the region, and is threatening to invade Jordan, which could cause Israel to act against it. You can't blur the lines and sweep it under the carpet by saying ISIS territorial ambitions match fertile crescent ambitions of past empires. Sorry, but it's just interesting that this group happens to come up out of nowhere, and their ambitions match the map. No amount of hair splitting or line blurring takes away that fact. *shrugs*

i don't find it suspicious at all that an ambitious group in the middle east has ambitions that match the ambitions of just about every other ambitious group in the middle east for the past four millennia...

also ISIS did not 'just come out of nowhere'...the name is new...but the organization goes back about fifteen years...it is the same as the 'al qaeda in iraq' group that was our main adversary in iraq after the fall of saddam hussein...

 

[1still_waters]

i don't find it suspicious at all that an ambitious group in the middle east has ambitions that match the ambitions of just about every other ambitious group in the middle east for the past four millennia...

also ISIS did not 'just come out of nowhere'...the name is new...but the organization goes back about fifteen years...it is the same as the 'al qaeda in iraq' group that was our main adversary in iraq after the fall of saddam hussein...

You can't sweep ISIS under the carpet by saying there are other ambitious groups in the region. This ambitious group actually occupies land. They've actually destablizied the region, and are now creating a situation where Israel may be drawn into a major invasion of a major amount of land.
Report: Israel, US prepared to help Jordan fight ISIS | JPost | Israel News

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

You can't sweep ISIS under the carpet by saying there are other ambitious groups in the region. This ambitious group actually occupies land. They've actually destablizied the region, and are now creating a situation where Israel may be drawn into a major invasion of a major amount of land.
Report: Israel, US prepared to help Jordan fight ISIS | JPost | Israel News

of course ISIS is a destabilizing group that occupies land...but they are -not- going to be the cause of israel occupying baghdad or whatever the conspiracy theorists falsely claim the israeli government is planning based on a blatantly misrepresented editorial from an obscure israeli journalist...

 

[kennethcadwell]

What ISIS is doing is exactly what the bible says will happen. Their leader has called for a coming together of the muslim/Islamic nations to band together to go up against Israel.

The bible states this that many nations will come up against Israel, and that is what ISIS is trying to do.

of course ISIS is a destabilizing group that occupies land...but they are -not- going to be the cause of israel occupying baghdad or whatever the conspiracy theorists falsely claim the israeli government is planning based on a blatantly misrepresented editorial from an obscure israeli journalist...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

but this is sort of an example of how conspiracy theories in general work...

step one...start with an unfounded suspicion against someone...preferably someone jewish...dismiss all evidence that there is actually nothing suspicious about this someone...
example...start with the conspiracy theory about the 'yinon plan' for 'greater israel'...dismiss the fact that the 'yinon plan' isn't actually a governmental plan at all and doesn't even suggest establishing a 'greater israel'...

step two...notice a coincidence...dismiss all evidence that it is merely coincidental or due to causes that have nothing to do with the suspected someone from step one...
example...notice that the map of ISIS's territorial claims looks vaguely similar to the map of 'greater israel' from the 'yinon plan' that actually isn't a plan and doesn't suggest establishing a 'greater israel'...dismiss the fact that there have been numerous groups throughout history that have coveted this same land and that this coveted land just happens to be the sum of all useful land in the middle east...

step three...blame suspected someone from step one for the coincidence from step two...evidence not required...
example...assign responsibility for ISIS and its territorial ambitions to israel and its secret plan that isn't really a plan...

very important...at no step in this process are you ever to ask yourself 'is there a simpler explanation?' or 'does this even make any sense?'

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

What ISIS is doing is exactly what the bible says will happen. Their leader has called for a coming together of the muslim/Islamic nations to band together to go up against Israel.

The bible states this that many nations will come up against Israel, and that is what ISIS is trying to do.

sigh...if it isn't one conspiracy theory it is another...

coalitions of nations have gone against israel many times before without it being a fulfillment of end time prophecy...

 

[kennethcadwell]

This isn't a conspiracy theory. There is a video out that was released showing the ISIS leader making this statement.

sigh...if it isn't one conspiracy theory it is another...

coalitions of nations have gone against israel many times before without it being a fulfillment of end time prophecy...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

This isn't a conspiracy theory. There is a video out that was released showing the ISIS leader making this statement.

like i said...coalitions of countries have sought to destroy israel before without it being a fulfillment of end time prophecy...

what makes anyone so sure that -this time- these nations are going to fulfill prophecy?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes, but it has been like one to three nations at a time. Not the extent of the end time prophecy that speak of pretty much every nation coming against them. Plus we have to remember at this time as well the anti-Christ will come to power, or already be established in power, and it says he will have the support of a 200 million man army.

Studies have shown that only two factions can fend that size of army: China or the muslim/Islamic nations if they band together. To this day no nation/nations that rose up against Israel so far has had that size of army.

like i said...coalitions of countries have sought to destroy israel before without it being a fulfillment of end time prophecy...

what makes anyone so sure that -this time- these nations are going to fulfill prophecy?