Protestants follow many Catholic traditions that began during the 1st century

[valiant]

Joshua stopped the rotation of the Earth, since the Sun doesn't rotate saying it stopped is dumb. Joshua in the KJV is called Jesus, but it is Joshua.

well that does depend on how you view the Hebrew. The Hebrew does not say that the sun stopped but that it 'went silent'. Joshua said, 'sun be silent on Gibeon, and you moon in the valley of Aijalon.' It could be that with his men accustomed to the darkness he wanted it to remain dark.In view of the unusual weather at that time which does not suggest a sunny day (verse 11) it may well indicate that the sun was darkened thus enabling Joshua to take his enemies by surprise in a day when there was little light. His men had marched there by night and would be accustomed to the darkness (verse 9). The miracle was that YHWH hearkened to the voice of a man and changed the weather accordingly..

 

[just-me]

5. Marcion teachings 110-160 AD

“Moses enforced the Jewish Sabbath and Law, but Jesus freed believers from both.”

refuting Marcion.........
It is written in Torah that the Sabbath was given by God at the creation of the world and for all eternity. The Tanakh (Isaiah 56, 58, 66) tells of Gentiles observing the seventh day through the light of the coming Messiah. It is written in the new (or renewed) covenant that Christ Jesus and all His messengers (such as Paul) observed Sabbath and also brought Gentiles into synagogues on the Sabbath to learn about the kingdom of God Almighty in Christ Jesus. Clearly it was the assimilation of pagan culture into the Gentile Christianity that changed worship from Shabbat [Sabbath] to Sunday.

I will add at this point, that because of the Gregorian calendar, it is possible that neither Saturday nor Sunday are the true Sabbaths. This calendar we use today is a Catholic instigation (via Pope Gregory) leading us away from the true Biblical calendar, times and seasons. There should then be no argument about the day, but it is clear that Shabbat has not been done away with. There is NOTHING in scripture that enforces that Shabbat needs to be extinct. Just the opposite. So let's not argue about the day, but understand the Spiritual reason for it.

When Jesus Christ proclaimed to be “master” of Shabbat, He was exercising His authority regarding the way Shabbat is to be observed, and he demonstrated this by His life! He did not “do away with it,” for in-fact, He resurrected Shabbat from the clutches of dead religious traditions and magnified it.

“The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.(Isaiah 42:21)

 

[Mec99]

Its interesting that 9 of the 10 Commandments are quoted in the N.T.

The Commandment to keep Holy the Sabbath was not repeated in the N.T.

God gave us the Sabbath to do whatever we wanted to do. We can Worship God every day of the week, or any day of the week if we want to.

 

[Elin]

I've only begun. Denying Torah, and Sabbaths (with God ordained feast days) I have quoted previously which the protestant Churches deny also. (for the most part)
Pope Gregory also denied the Biblical calendar and now we all abide by the Gregorian calendar. Every day is named after some pagan god, along with 8 months out of 12. Or there abouts.

And this has affected Christian faith, how?

Straw man. . .

 

[valiant]

Are you a Catholic, or do you just wish to adopt their original doctrines? Colossians 2:16-17 is referring to pagan's accusations against Christians keeping the feasts that God originally ordained for good reason. God doesn't change in midstream. Those original things that God gave us are for our own edification, so it's not by our works, but His.

What an extraordinary claim. The rituals described are specifically stated to be a shadow of things to come in contrast with the body (the reality) of Christ. They have thus ceased to be important. Furthermore the statement is made in the light of the fact that the bond written in ordinances has been nailed to the cross. Thus it follows on that those who do not obey those ordinances should not be judged. Only a Judaist would think otherwise.

Had he meant that they should not be judged for observing the holy days he would not have described them as 'shadows'

 

[Elin]

You make some very good points. This thread is not to try to explain that protestants are the same a Catholics. It is only to show that there are many traditions that the protestants hold today the same as Catholics do. If you read many threads, you will see even in CC there are many people who deny God's preordained and established ordinances, separating the words of God according to old and new as something past and present.

Kinda' like Heb 1:1-2, 9:10 as well the abolition of the animal sacrifices, the Levitical priesthood and the mediation of Moses, replaced by the words spoken by the Son in these last days, the new covenant, the once-for-all sacrifice, the priesthood of Melchizedek and the mediation of Jesus of Nazareth?

More deception of the HRM Greek vs. Christ heresy. . .

 

[Desdichado]

Yes, Protestants follow many Catholic traditions, but the Reformation was not, at heart, about tradition. It was about who has authority.

 

[Elin]

Another point is that it makes no more sense to claim those who attend worship services on Sunday are worshiping the Sun than it does to claim that a person who attends services on Saturday is a Saturn worshipper.

The critical reasoning of some of these arguments is laughable.

Evident to all who are not deceived by its nonsensical foolishness.

I am ashamed that I was naive enough to fall for this sort of argumentation as a younger person.

Which just-me still is. . .

 

[Elin]

Jesus said that the rock He would build His church on was not the
masculine "petros" (which would be Peter) but the feminine "petra."

Are you confusing Latin with Greek?

 

[just-me]

6.Marcion teachings 110-160 AD

“God commanded that no work be done on the Sabbath, yet He told the Israelites to carry the ark around Jericho seven times on the Sabbath.”

refuting Marcion.........
Scripture does not say that the seven days around Jericho began on the first day of the week (Sunday); therefore, one cannot assume that the seventh day at Jericho was on a weekly Shabbat. The Israelites had just observed Pesach and therefore the seventh-day cycle around Jericho may have started on the first day of Chag haMatzah (Nisan 15) or “the feast of Unleavened Bread” as we know it. On the seventh day of this feast Israel defeated Jericho. Marcion chose to judge God's authority and speak evil against the “Most High.” If Nisan 15 is a (Saturday) Sabbath, seven days, counting that day, would be Friday according to Pope Gregory's Calendar being the 21[SUP]st[/SUP]. Again I say that it isn't a certain day that is recognized by the calendar of a certain Pope, it is to be observed according to the Spiritual observance as it was originally intended.

 

[Magenta]

Are you confusing Latin with Greek?

"petros" and "petra" are Greek words.

 

[Elin]

In his letter to Polycarp, Ignatius writes.........

Give ye heed to the bishop, that God also may give heed to you. I am devoted to those who are subject to the bishop, the presbyters, and deacons. (end quote)

In this letter Ignatius gives directives to Polycarp who is in the historical record for passionately resisting the Ishtar (Easter) celebration of Gentile Christians. Polycarp made a special trip to Rome to exhort the Church to continue observing Pesach (Passover) according to the Torah. Polycarp and Ignatius appear to be in two very different camps, yet it seems Ignatius is on a letter writing campaign to make himself as an authority of the church and install himself as a key element (or perhaps was painted into this caricature by later Catholic theologians). Nevertheless, the writings of Ignatius are one of the earliest defects to the original teachings of Christ (Messiah) and Paul, regardless as to how his letters may have been manipulated to suit the founders of the Catholic Church. The fact of the matter is that church hierarchy, massive cathedrals, wickedness within the church leadership, and outright malice against Torah had to start somewhere,

You can thank the Judaizers of Paul's day for any malice against observing the Mosaic regulations.

 

[Elin]

Scripture doesn't say that Mary was without sin. Ignatius taught that which I have mentioned that he clearly distorted scripture in previous posts. What I am endorsing is that "Protestants follow many Catholic traditions that began during the 1st century." as the title of this thread says. It's not my judgment, it is documented.

Ellen G. White is also "documented," doesn't make her true.

 

[Elin]

Marcion 110-160 AD


Marcion coined the terms “Old” and “New” Testament.

Baloney. . .

A testament is a covenant, both made effective by the death of the testator.
"Old" covenant was "coined" in Heb 8:13.

 

[Elin]

I hope that someone will find your thread informative, and that it will lead them to the truth. But it really isn't possible for people to accept the truth unless the Father removes the scale from their eyes. It's God who puts the desire for truth in people's hearts, and calls them out of the world, and into the Church. And no one can come to Christ unless the Father calls Him.

2 Corinthians 4:4
​

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

If anyone comes to the truth today, it won't be because you revealed it to them. But because they've been chosen to believe. Good luck.

The HRM Greek vs. Christ doctrine is untruth.

 

[Elin]

Excuse me, but hogwash, Born Again Christian's, if they know their Bible, don't oppose Judaism and don't oppose the Torah (God's word). I for one would love to be acquainted with the writing's of the old Rabbi's. We don't oppose, we just know that Judaism was given for a dispensation and
a better covenant replaced all of that.

Emphasis on "better" and "replaced."

 

[Elin]

ok...sorry, but this is a debate I am not going to participate in

my head has no room for this

Good choice. . .

 

[Elin]

2. Marcion teachings 110-160 AD

I quote Marcion........
“Moses' form of law was “eye for an eye” but Jesus reversed this.”

(Exodus 21:23-26 says “Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it parish; he shall let him go free for the eye's sake.”

refuting Marcion.........
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth means to render equivalent compensation toward the value of loss, even set the servant or maid free. Eye for eye does NOT ever suggest physical punishment to avenge the loss; this is NOT what God instructs nor was this ever practiced within the Israel of the plural attributes of God Almighty, (Jesus Christ being the right hand of God). In Marcion's day, Gentiles were an easy prey to his false teachings because, as today, most have very little or no Torah consciousness to determine even basic practical application of the original commandments given to Israel via Moses.

Continuing to quote Marcion........
“Elisha caused bears to devour the little children, but Jesus said “let the little children come to me.”

refuting Marcion..........
The scripture says that Elisha cursed the mocking children in the name of the Almighty God and Father, and 42 children were torn apart by she-bears. The number 42 represents disaster (Israel's oppression) toward those that rebel against God. There were 42,000 Ephraimites slain in Judges 12:6 and 42 relatives of Ahaziah were killed by Jehu in 2 Kings 10:14. According to Revelation 11:2, the Gentiles wreak havoc, and do all manner of blasphemy for 42 months. The number 42 is suggesting, or making reference to pagan Gentiles, forcing people to worship their Jesus god (threatening) the pain of death. Elisha raised a child from the dead and showed great compassion for children; but Marcion, levied a wicked judgment against God.

And where is the refutation?

 

[Elin]

3. Marcion teachings 110-160 AD

He taught that Joshua stopped the sun in its path to continue a slaughter of the enemy, but Paul said “don't let the sun go down on your wrath.”

refuting Marcion.........
Joshua would have no success in “stopping he sun” by his own strength.

Marvelous grasp of the obvious. . .and misrepresentation of Marcion.

 

[Elin]

Are you a Catholic, or do you just wish to adopt their original doctrines? Colossians 2:16-17 is referring to pagan's accusations against Christians

Wow, what a rewrite of context.

Col 2:16-17 is referring to Judaizers judging Christians who do not practice the feasts, etc.

God doesn't change in midstream.

Straw man. . .

Those original things that God gave us are for our own edification, so it's not by our works, but His.

I guess you missed the part about animal sacrifices, the Levitical priesthood, the covenant and the Mediator.

Such gross misrepresentation of the NT word of God. . .