Secession is the only hope for peace in USA.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#62
That's handy. You don't need to obey the Constitution because you come under a 'higher law'. This 'higher law' gives you the right to steal from others. But of course the South was the outlaw for obeying the Constitution.

This is not a topic on slavery. If you want to argue slavery, start another topic.

Quantrill
I did not bring up the slavery issue you did.

If you ascribe to the Christian faith you know that when the secular laws conflict with the God's instruction on how to live we are to be obedient to God.

Slavery is contrary to the teachings of Jesus, plain and simple.

Those that hid the slaves and broke the law did the righteous act.


Oh I know, they broke the Constitution and hid the slaves in the underground railroad and shipped them to Canada.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#64
it seems history repeats itself and even Solomon for all his wisdom was his own worst enemy

what I see and what I saw this past week, and I'm not alone, was a party ready to kill to get their way and a spineless party with a small majority trying to play politics

I do not for one moment believe any sort of division of this country, physical, will happen because it will not be allowed anymore than it was the first time

and we just recently had the California trifecta split that went over like a lead balloon

it's too late regarding the liberals...that genie is not going back in the bottle so you are right on that
If a 'form' of secession is not allowed, then war is the eventual outcome. I believe the best would be to do away with the Federal Supreme Court altogether. Let the States run their state through their own Supreme Court, which each state has.

The Federal Supreme Court has been nothing but a way to run the country by judiciary. Therefore, whoever controls the Supreme Court, controls the country. Of course the liberal left will go to war over this because this is the way they control the country. This is the way the tail wags the dog.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#65
I did not bring up the slavery issue you did.

If you ascribe to the Christian faith you know that when the secular laws conflict with the God's instruction on how to live we are to be obedient to God.

Slavery is contrary to the teachings of Jesus, plain and simple.

Those that hid the slaves and broke the law did the righteous act.
No I didn't. Tommy379 did and I responded. You jumped like a chicken on a grasshopper concerning the slavery question.

OK. Since you refuse to let 'slavery' go, then I will discuss it with you.

Yes, I am a born-again Christian. I am all for being obedient to God when secular law conflicts with God. But slavery doesn't. You will not be able to prove God is against slavery as an institution by the Bible.

Slavery is not contrary to the Bible, Jesus Christ or God. Those that hid the slaves were lawbreakers of man and God's law. Read the book of (Philemon).

If God is opposed to slavery, why am I a slave of Jesus Christ and God? Were you bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ or not? Bought and paid for! (1 Cor. 6:20) (1 Cor. 7:23) I guess you are to proud to be a slave of God and Christ. I am not.

Your reference to higher law is lame. It allowed people back in 1861 to prostrate themselves as so righteous, yet they were nothing but lawbreakers. And they then, just as you do now, call the South evil and lawbreakers for obeying the law.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#66
If you don't like the USA government, you can always try another form. I hear that there are openings in Russia, Iran, Syria, China, and South Africa.

Feel free to go to any other nation of your choice.

-------------------------
I have a better idea. Why not do what you can to restore and change it for the better. You are very shallow to ignore the problems we have in this country and to simply say 'love it or leave it'. I probably love it much more than you ever thought about. Which is why it needs to change. To run and hide is an act of cowardice. But, I guess that is better than your position that sticks it's head in the sand like everything is ok and you will love it no matter what.

Your vision does not exceed the end of your nose.

Quantrill
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#67
No I didn't. Tommy379 did and I responded. You jumped like a chicken on a grasshopper concerning the slavery question.

OK. Since you refuse to let 'slavery' go, then I will discuss it with you.

Yes, I am a born-again Christian. I am all for being obedient to God when secular law conflicts with God. But slavery doesn't. You will not be able to prove God is against slavery as an institution by the Bible.

Slavery is not contrary to the Bible, Jesus Christ or God. Those that hid the slaves were lawbreakers of man and God's law. Read the book of (Philemon).

If God is opposed to slavery, why am I a slave of Jesus Christ and God? Were you bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ or not? Bought and paid for! (1 Cor. 6:20) (1 Cor. 7:23) I guess you are to proud to be a slave of God and Christ. I am not.

Your reference to higher law is lame. It allowed people back in 1861 to prostrate themselves as so righteous, yet they were nothing but lawbreakers. And they then, just as you do now, call the South evil and lawbreakers for obeying the law.

Quantrill
You jumped like a chicken on a grasshopper concerning the slavery question.
And I am so glad I did.

The onus is on you to prove slavery is sanctioned in the new testament. ..... verse by verse exegesis please.

I will be waiting
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#68
And I am so glad I did.

The onus is you to prove slavery is sanctioned in the new testament. ..... verse by verse exegesis please.

I will be waiting
I did. Go back and reread. Answer my direct questions to you.

Quantrill
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#69
I did. Go back and reread. Answer my direct questions to you.

Quantrill
There is nothing to answer, slavery is wrong.

You are the first person I have ever interacted with that has defended slavery.

"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

Best you stop maligning the Christian faith.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#70
Slavery is not contrary to the Bible, Jesus Christ or God. Those that hid the slaves were lawbreakers of man and God's law. Read the book of (Philemon).
btw...I have read it and when properly understood within the cultural, geopolitical, historical context and the actions of three Christian men within that context, your claim............. that hiding slaves during the Civil War was wrong and breaking God's law has no support from the Bible and is the most preposterous hideous justification ever!!
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,146
113
#71
Quantrill supports islam.

It was African muslims seizing africans, and in turn, selling them to Portuguese and Spanish traders, destined for North America and the West Indies.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#72
There is nothing to answer, slavery is wrong.

You are the first person I have ever interacted with that has defended slavery.

"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

Best you stop maligning the Christian faith.
You asked. You were shown. Now you ignore. Go ahead. Pull the cover over your eyes if it makes you feel better.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#73
btw...I have read it and when properly understood within the cultural, geopolitical, historical context and the actions of three Christian men within that context, your claim............. that hiding slaves during the Civil War was wrong and breaking God's law has no support from the Bible and is the most preposterous hideous justification ever!!
I gave you the Scripture. The Scripture is against you. But go ahead. Live your life of make believe.

Quantrill
 
Aug 8, 2018
96
56
18
#74
Do to others as you would be done by. Simples.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#75
Do to others as you would be done by. Simples.
That is why Paul was returning the runaway slave back to his fellow laborer and Christian, Philemon. (Philemon 1-25)

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#76
There is nothing to answer, slavery is wrong.

You are the first person I have ever interacted with that has defended slavery.

"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

Best you stop maligning the Christian faith.
(Ex. 21:16) is the law for Israel concerning Israel. The last part of (Lev. 25:46) gives you explanation for that. As does (Deut. 24:7) But, (Lev. 25:45-46) also explains that slavery was allowed for those not of Israel, as does (Deut. 20:11).

So, how am I maligning the Christian faith? Slavery is the condition of the human race. You are either slaves of God or slaves of satan. As I said and showed you already, you and I were bought with a price. Yes, the love of God is involved. Yes, we are brought into a unique relationship to Jesus Christ as the body and bride. But none of that removes the fact that you were bought and paid for.

It is always a question of which master you serve.

Your problem, as well as most Americans, have been taught that slavery is evil. And it could be, depending on the individuals. But it itself is not evil. The abolitionist north labeled it evil so as to destroy the South. The christianity of the north had fallen into a social gospel of doing good to your fellow man instead of presenting the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Thus they could murder, steal, from the Southernor all the while claiming their 'higher law' of God.

No one is trying to go back to slavery. But slavery was a ruse used to destroy the people of the South. The money men and powerful men in the north needed a reason. The abolitionist gave them one.

Quantrill
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
11,245
2,912
113
#77
The old band played out of tune and the moon hung in anguish,
for the people's will hand been vanquished many days past -
thus our country grows not stronger but weak,
it's peak has passed,
for we have cast God into the ditch...
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#78
(Ex. 21:16) is the law for Israel concerning Israel. The last part of (Lev. 25:46) gives you explanation for that. As does (Deut. 24:7) But, (Lev. 25:45-46) also explains that slavery was allowed for those not of Israel, as does (Deut. 20:11).

So, how am I maligning the Christian faith? Slavery is the condition of the human race. You are either slaves of God or slaves of satan. As I said and showed you already, you and I were bought with a price. Yes, the love of God is involved. Yes, we are brought into a unique relationship to Jesus Christ as the body and bride. But none of that removes the fact that you were bought and paid for.

It is always a question of which master you serve.

Your problem, as well as most Americans, have been taught that slavery is evil. And it could be, depending on the individuals. But it itself is not evil. The abolitionist north labeled it evil so as to destroy the South. The christianity of the north had fallen into a social gospel of doing good to your fellow man instead of presenting the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Thus they could murder, steal, from the Southernor all the while claiming their 'higher law' of God.

No one is trying to go back to slavery. But slavery was a ruse used to destroy the people of the South. The money men and powerful men in the north needed a reason. The abolitionist gave them one.

Quantrill

No one is trying to go back to slavery.
If God is okay with it then I see no reason why Christians should not have slaves. I think you are contradicting yourself now.

Well if you want to defend the south you better find a better argument than "slavery is fine with God."

Our servitude to God in no way compares to man having another man as a slave.

Slavery is inherently evil in the absolute universal complete sense, there are no mitigating circumstances.
I know full well the history so I do not need a lesson from you.

Vilifying the north to justify slavery is just as wrong. I really do not think you even understand what the flaws of the social gospel are.

Like I said find another argument.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#79
it's a sad statement when people refuse to let go of preconceived ideas and march right over the truth in order to seem to be on the moral side of an argument when the actual argument is fiction

here is the truth:

What led to the outbreak of the bloodiest conflict in the history of North America?
A common explanation is that the Civil War was fought over the moral issue of slavery.
In fact, it was the economics of slavery and political control of that system that was central to the conflict.
A key issue was states' rights.

The Southern states wanted to assert their authority over the federal government so they could abolish federal laws they didn't support, especially laws interfering with the South's right to keep slaves and take them wherever they wished.
Another factor was territorial expansion.
The South wished to take slavery into the western territories, while the North was committed to keeping them open to white labor alone.
Meanwhile, the newly formed Republican party, whose members were strongly opposed to the westward expansion of slavery into new states, was gaining prominence.
The election of a Republican, Abraham Lincoln, as President in 1860 sealed the deal. His victory, without a single Southern electoral vote, was a clear signal to the Southern states that they had lost all influence.
Feeling excluded from the political system, they turned to the only alternative they believed was left to them: secession, a political decision that led directly to war.

source

There are many causes that led to the American Civil War. While slavery is generally cited as the main cause for the war, other political and cultural differences between the North and the South certainly contributed. Below we will discuss some of these differences and how they created a divide between the North and the South that eventually caused the Civil War.

Industry vs. Farming

In the mid-1800s, the economies of many northern states had moved away from farming to industry. A lot of people in the North worked and lived in large cities like New York, Philadelphia, and Boston. The southern states, however, had maintained a large farming economy and this economy was based on slave labor. While the North no longer needed slaves, the South relied heavily upon slaves for their way of life.

States' Rights

The idea of states' rights was not new to the Civil War. Since the Constitution was first written there had been arguments about how much power the states should have versus how much power the federal government should have. The southern states felt that the federal government was taking away their rights and powers.

Expansion

As the United States continued to expand westward, each new state added to the country shifted the power between the North and the South. Southern states began to fear they would lose so much power that they would lose all their rights. Each new state became a battleground between the two sides for power.

Slavery

At the heart of much of the South's issues was slavery. The South relied on slavery for labor to work the fields. Many people in the North believed that slavery was wrong and evil. These people were called abolitionists. They wanted slavery made illegal throughout the United States. Abolitionists such as John Brown, Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, and Harriet Beecher Stowe began to convince more and more people of the evil of slavery. This made the South fearful that their way of life would come to an end.

Bleeding Kansas

The first fighting over the slavery issue took place in Kansas. In 1854, the government passed the Kansas-Nebraska Act allowing the residents of Kansas to vote on whether they would be a slave state or a free state. The region was flooded with supporters from both sides. They fought over the issue for years. Several people were killed in small skirmishes giving the confrontation the name Bleeding Kansas. Eventually Kansas entered the Union as a free state in 1861.

Abraham Lincoln

The final straw for the South was election of Abraham Lincoln to President of the United States. Abraham Lincoln was a member of the new anti-slavery Republican Party. He managed to get elected without even being on the ballot in ten of the southern states. The southern states felt that Lincoln was against slavery and also against the South.

Secession

When Lincoln was elected, many of the southern states decided they no longer wanted to be a part of the United States. They felt that they had every right to leave. Starting with South Carolina, eleven states would eventually leave the United States and form a new country called the Confederate States of America. Abraham Lincoln said they did not have the right to leave the United States and sent in troops to stop the South from leaving. The Civil War had begun.

source
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#80
it is very hard to have intelligent discussion on anything, and I mean anything around here, when people think they have to hijack a thread to argue something they believe is morally superior

it would have been interesting to look deeper into causes and possible similarities to current events and since this is NOT the BDF, I fail to see why that is not possible other than at the end of the day, it would appear some people sleep better if they think they have given a set number of people a good thrashing irregardless of the fact they were riding a horse with very short legs into the fray