Sunday worship / Christmas / Easter and all the rest....

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GHClarkII

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
148
31
28
#41
Sunday worship is pagan, a Roman practice.
this is a very common misconception. the "Romans" did not have a single day of worship like the Jews did. they were pagans, and paganism at that time was very fluid. they worshipped on certain holidays to celebrate certain events or gods, but not weekly with any regularity. temples were frequented on every day of the week to sleep with temple prostitutes, pay offerings to the temple priests, or to pray in front of idols and statues. it is completely unlike anything that the Jews or Christians were doing. no religions at that time took a day every week to celebrate anything. again, common misconception.

the early Christians would get together on every sunday evening and eat a feast together. they called this day the Lord's day to commemorate Christ's resurrection on sunday morning. at these meals they would break bread and pass wine to remember the atonement on the cross and the elders among them would teach or answer questions. there would be prayer and usually an offering of some kind for other members of the body. as time went on and Christianity became the religion of the empire buildings were erected to worship in and priests and bishops became officers that preached in the morning on those days. people frequented the church buildings so that they often had people worshipping every day of the week, but they collectively would gather sunday mornings to give service. church as we know it today has existed for less than 1000 years, and most church practices even less than 100. but to say "sunday worship is paganism" is a misuse and abuse of history. yes paganism generally worships the sun, but the first day of the week has not always been called that. the Jews and Christians of Christ's day did not call it sunday, they did not associate it with the Sun at all. it was simply the first day of the week.

many teachers and cult leaders have claimed that sunday worship is pagan to divide the Church. none have been able to show its development historically, because it didn't happen that way. Paul tells us that days do not matter. festivals and worship days mean nothing to God anymore. Christ and His sacrifice are all that matter now. Let us rejoice in that together.

May God be the Judge
 

cobalt1959

Active member
Feb 10, 2019
235
121
43
59
#42
Sunday worship is pagan, a Roman practice.
100% Bogus. The Apostolic Church worshiped on Sunday. This is not something the Romans instituted, since the majority of them were not Christian, so your premise fails at that point. The Apostles worshiped on Sunday as a celebration of the fact that Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. If you are advocating some kind of Sabbath Saturday observance, exercise caution because that premise is easily dismantled.
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
113
67
28
#43
Can anyone of us imagine a world without any kind of law? Civil or moral law. We are already beginning to see the effects of the lawlessness in the world where violence and the love of many has grown cold. Why has the love of many grown cold. May it be because we are breaking the law of God and as result of sin, we are reaping the seeds of disobedience. Lets use one illustration of what will happen if the government, makes the decision that the rules of the road will be nil and void from tomorow on wards?
What choas will be seen on the road. How many accidents and lives will be at stake. Lets evaulate it logically and whether it make sense. Let us reason to together. I truly see the beauty in the law. Is the universe ruled without any laws? There is even law in nature. The law of gravity. What is the purpose of law or rules. Even parents set rules for the children and why is it necessary? If we understand the purpose for law we might get better understanding.

Does it really make sense that God has removed the law of liberty of serving others and depending wholly on the One and only source of life? Has Jesus came to earth in order for us to die in our sin or to save us from our sin.

I know there is some of you, that still believe the ten commandments is not taken away.

I am not advocating for the sabbath commandment only. But also talk about the law of life, which is extention of the law to give to others and to take from God. There is deeper meaning too it.

The law is so fundamental. The whole bible is the law..... What are your thoughts?
 

1christian1

Active member
Sep 13, 2018
701
212
43
#44
Can anyone of us imagine a world without any kind of law? Civil or moral law. We are already beginning to see the effects of the lawlessness in the world where violence and the love of many has grown cold. Why has the love of many grown cold. May it be because we are breaking the law of God and as result of sin, we are reaping the seeds of disobedience. Lets use one illustration of what will happen if the government, makes the decision that the rules of the road will be nil and void from tomorow on wards?
What choas will be seen on the road. How many accidents and lives will be at stake. Lets evaulate it logically and whether it make sense. Let us reason to together. I truly see the beauty in the law. Is the universe ruled without any laws? There is even law in nature. The law of gravity. What is the purpose of law or rules. Even parents set rules for the children and why is it necessary? If we understand the purpose for law we might get better understanding.

Does it really make sense that God has removed the law of liberty of serving others and depending wholly on the One and only source of life? Has Jesus came to earth in order for us to die in our sin or to save us from our sin.

I know there is some of you, that still believe the ten commandments is not taken away.

I am not advocating for the sabbath commandment only. But also talk about the law of life, which is extention of the law to give to others and to take from God. There is deeper meaning too it.

The law is so fundamental. The whole bible is the law..... What are your thoughts?

I agree with you that there is only one law in the universe. the law of nature. The law of man has been sent out the window a minute ago...
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,532
5,093
113
#45
Can anyone of us imagine a world without any kind of law? Civil or moral law. We are already beginning to see the effects of the lawlessness in the world where violence and the love of many has grown cold. Why has the love of many grown cold. May it be because we are breaking the law of God and as result of sin, we are reaping the seeds of disobedience. Lets use one illustration of what will happen if the government, makes the decision that the rules of the road will be nil and void from tomorow on wards?
What choas will be seen on the road. How many accidents and lives will be at stake. Lets evaulate it logically and whether it make sense. Let us reason to together. I truly see the beauty in the law. Is the universe ruled without any laws? There is even law in nature. The law of gravity. What is the purpose of law or rules. Even parents set rules for the children and why is it necessary? If we understand the purpose for law we might get better understanding.

Does it really make sense that God has removed the law of liberty of serving others and depending wholly on the One and only source of life? Has Jesus came to earth in order for us to die in our sin or to save us from our sin.

I know there is some of you, that still believe the ten commandments is not taken away.

I am not advocating for the sabbath commandment only. But also talk about the law of life, which is extention of the law to give to others and to take from God. There is deeper meaning too it.

The law is so fundamental. The whole bible is the law..... What are your thoughts?
Jesus talked about "the law and the prophets" which means that the whole Bible is not the law.

I'll borrow a couple of questions from Paul: assuming you are truly a Christian, did you receive the Spirit by following the ten commandments, or by believing what you heard? Having begun by faith, are you now going to be perfected by works?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,204
2,933
113
#46
So before I begin this isn’t to start a argument , poke at anyone , or create confusion . I know where I stand and curious to how so many Christians are still following the pagan ways and traditions of man.
Welcome CasS22:

Undoubtedly those festivals (Christmas and Easter) had pagan origins. But they became Christian festivals a long time ago, and Christ was exalted in Christmas and Easter. As to Sunday worship (being the first day of the week) it became the Christian sabbath since the apostolic churches met for worship on the Lord's Day (which is Jesus' Day). It is only UNBELIEVING JEWS today who hold to the 7th day sabbath (apart from the SDAs and Messianics).

The Bible allows Christians liberty in the the matter of which days they observe as special days. So there is no need to speak of other Christians "following the pagan ways and the traditions of men". You are free to observe the 7th day sabbath, but you are not free to suggest that those who do not do so are pagan (or have taken the Mark of the Beast, as taught by the SDAs). That would be violating the Law of Christ.

SABBATHS ARE SHADOWS, CHRIST IS THE REALITY
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days:] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col 2:16,17)

ROMANS 14 -- CHRIST HAS GIVEN LIBERTY IN THE MATTER OF OBSERVING DAYS
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
113
67
28
#47
Jesus talked about "the law and the prophets" which means that the whole Bible is not the law.

I'll borrow a couple of questions from Paul: assuming you are truly a Christian, did you receive the Spirit by following the ten commandments, or by believing what you heard? Having begun by faith, are you now going to be perfected by works?
My conversion came while I was attending the Apostolic Faith Mission church. I grew up in the Medhodist church, but I felt so comfortable in that church. And lots of things happened in my life and as a result went back to the Apostolic Faith Mission church. I was convict of my sin by the Holy spirit and when I look onto the ten commandments to see the high standard of living we are called to.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,532
5,093
113
#48
My conversion came while I was attending the Apostolic Faith Mission church. I grew up in the Medhodist church, but I felt so comfortable in that church. And lots of things happened in my life and as a result went back to the Apostolic Faith Mission church. I was convict of my sin by the Holy spirit and when I look onto the ten commandments to see the high standard of living we are called to.
The ten commandments were never 'a high standard of living we are called to (sic)". They are the laws given to Israel. Live by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and you will fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law.
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
113
67
28
#49
The ten commandments were never 'a high standard of living we are called to (sic)". They are the laws given to Israel. Live by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and you will fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law.
KJV John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,048
663
113
72
#50
What we should be really concerned about is not whether to acknowledge traditional Church holidays or not but to be deeply concerned
about the millions of people who are not in the least bit interested in Christianity at all and are according to scripture heading for a godless eternity.
 

cobalt1959

Active member
Feb 10, 2019
235
121
43
59
#51
KJV John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
If you say you are keeping the commandments, then you should be able to explain to us exactly how you are "keeping" the Sabbath.
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
113
67
28
#52
If you say you are keeping the commandments, then you should be able to explain to us exactly how you are "keeping" the Sabbath.
Ok. Everything that we do, should not be for the benefit of self. The sabbath it ought to be blessing for everyone around us.

It is not merely a day of idleness. It a day to serve others. Most importantly the law of life, is to take all the blessings God has be stood upon us and share with the 'the least of the society the needy'. We can go give out food parcels to those who are hungry, visit the hospitals and minister to those who are sick. And visit prisoners.

We can help to relief pain and suffering. That is what the Sabbath is also about. We have time we meet together for worship and fellowship with another.

It is all about living for your neoghbour and having a consciousness that we are created beings and God is our creator. It give us prospective to remember where we may not cross the borders.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
552
353
63
#53
The Lord says trust no man
yet we do the opposite. Just FYI I’m guilty as most I do try to keep it but don’t always keep it holy . It’s funny when you look at Friday night and Saturday’s that’s when everything “ cool “ happens , all the parties , new movie releases and the list goes on . Do you think this is a accident ? No it’s not.
Where is this first statement made in scripture? I sort of follow that as a general rule and am incredibly suspicious but I do think we are to trust the Lord working through men.


The second bit I particularly like. I feel the same way but having you state it in that particular way opened up the concept for me a bit more so I appreciate it.

I haven't progressed as far as you have about the Sabbath commandment. I deliver pizzas and that's the time to order...I considered several times getting off saturday and I did a few times for that reason but then in theory I couldn't work past sundown on friday and I didn't particular want to make that declaration...So I sort of settled on having a particular day off during the week and using it for that purpose but it didn't seem to be the same...but the NT scripture about it bears relevancy. In keeping one day holy above another or all days alike.


I sort of consoled myself that I don't really like the job and I wasn't partaking in pleasure regardless. Also there is a trap of pharasaical thinking that I believe I've fallen into that was error.

but to throw in the worldly element (beyond being anti-jewish) is interesting. I usually think of the Nsync song (unfortunately) and it's something of a caveat.



In regards to holidays...this one is pretty clear. I'll still make an appearance and spend time with people but my heart is no longer in it. Of course there are reasons NOT to. I don't want to make too much out of those just that it seems to be a personal conviction and if someone hasn't come to the knowledge of it, I keep it to myself usually. Just hit a bunch of brick walls...
 

cobalt1959

Active member
Feb 10, 2019
235
121
43
59
#54
Ok. Everything that we do, should not be for the benefit of self. The sabbath it ought to be blessing for everyone around us.

It is not merely a day of idleness. It a day to serve others. Most importantly the law of life, is to take all the blessings God has be stood upon us and share with the 'the least of the society the needy'. We can go give out food parcels to those who are hungry, visit the hospitals and minister to those who are sick. And visit prisoners.

We can help to relief pain and suffering. That is what the Sabbath is also about. We have time we meet together for worship and fellowship with another.

It is all about living for your neoghbour and having a consciousness that we are created beings and God is our creator. It give us prospective to remember where we may not cross the borders.
No. You did not answer my question at all.

The Sabbath commandment is very specific. It says to "keep" the Sabbath. That means keep it the way that the Mosaic Jews kept it. Old Testament commands for the Sabbath are very specific and they are not optional. So if you feel you are keeping that commandment, you have to be able to explain to me exactly how you are keeping it. If you cannot, that would only be because you are actually not keeping it. Lots of people say they "keep" the Sabbath, but biblically, no one, in the 21st Century is actually keeping the Sabbath because it is physically impossible to do so and has been since 70 AD.
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
113
67
28
#55
No. You did not answer my question at all.

The Sabbath commandment is very specific. It says to "keep" the Sabbath. That means keep it the way that the Mosaic Jews kept it. Old Testament commands for the Sabbath are very specific and they are not optional. So if you feel you are keeping that commandment, you have to be able to explain to me exactly how you are keeping it. If you cannot, that would only be because you are actually not keeping it. Lots of people say they "keep" the Sabbath, but biblically, no one, in the 21st Century is actually keeping the Sabbath because it is physically impossible to do so and has been since 70 AD.
Please share your insight and understanding how to keep the Sabbath? Even in how you keep the 1st day of the week or which ever day of the week you keep?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,532
5,093
113
#56
Ok. Everything that we do, should not be for the benefit of self. The sabbath it ought to be blessing for everyone around us.

It is not merely a day of idleness. It a day to serve others. Most importantly the law of life, is to take all the blessings God has be stood upon us and share with the 'the least of the society the needy'. We can go give out food parcels to those who are hungry, visit the hospitals and minister to those who are sick. And visit prisoners.

We can help to relief pain and suffering. That is what the Sabbath is also about. We have time we meet together for worship and fellowship with another.

It is all about living for your neoghbour and having a consciousness that we are created beings and God is our creator. It give us prospective to remember where we may not cross the borders.
Do you have even a single verse of Scripture that supports your explanation?
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
113
67
28
#57
Do you have even a single verse of Scripture that supports your explanation?
Often when we talk about the Sabbath, the conversation quickly moves to how to keep it. What are the things that we should not do, and the like? However important these questions are, we need to understand the integrat role that the Sabbath was designed to play in the world and in the lives of God's people as a symbol of God's grace and provision.

As Jesus said, the seventh day Sabbath was created for all humanity (Mark 2:27) and as Jesus demonstrated - it can be a means of blessing to others.

There are lessons to be learn. In Exodus 16:16-18, God had instructed the Israelites to collect as much manna as they have need of. And there were families that gather much and others collect very little. Yet, those who collect much had nothing left and those whom collected very little had no lack. And epistle Paul comments on the same passage in 2 Corinthians 8:14. He speaks here about an equality. (2 Corinthians 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality). That our blessings we need to share with others and others need to share their abundances. Sabbath ought to teach us this principle. The Israelites was slaves for 400 years and they had to change their prospect of survival. As slaves they had to fight in order to survive but here God is teaching them.

Sabbath was a day of 'equality. If you read in Exodus 20:8-11. Everybody had the freedom of resting on the Sabbath no matter what your social status was. Whether you were a freeman, slave or weakest and most vulnerable in society, whom actually really needed the rest. The sabbath reminds us that we are all equal before God, recreated and redeemed and your employee ought to give the day for their employees to rest.

But sabbath keeping should not be be selfishly about us. As Jesus said, 'It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath' Matthew 12:12.

Jesus performed many miracles on the sabbath see the following scriptures:
Matthew 12:9-13, Mark 1:21-26, Mark 3:1-6, John 9:1-16
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
113
67
28
#58
Jesus talked about "the law and the prophets" which means that the whole Bible is not the law.

I'll borrow a couple of questions from Paul: assuming you are truly a Christian, did you receive the Spirit by following the ten commandments, or by believing what you heard? Having begun by faith, are you now going to be perfected by works?
At the time, when Jesus lived. They only had the Old testament.....
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,532
5,093
113
#59
At the time, when Jesus lived. They only had the Old testament.....
Aaaaand the OT consists of the Law and the prophets (and the writings), which is what I said. So, what's your point?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,532
5,093
113
#60
Often when we talk about the Sabbath, the conversation quickly moves to how to keep it. What are the things that we should not do, and the like? However important these questions are, we need to understand the integrat role that the Sabbath was designed to play in the world and in the lives of God's people as a symbol of God's grace and provision.

As Jesus said, the seventh day Sabbath was created for all humanity (Mark 2:27) and as Jesus demonstrated - it can be a means of blessing to others.

There are lessons to be learn. In Exodus 16:16-18, God had instructed the Israelites to collect as much manna as they have need of. And there were families that gather much and others collect very little. Yet, those who collect much had nothing left and those whom collected very little had no lack. And epistle Paul comments on the same passage in 2 Corinthians 8:14. He speaks here about an equality. (2 Corinthians 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality). That our blessings we need to share with others and others need to share their abundances. Sabbath ought to teach us this principle. The Israelites was slaves for 400 years and they had to change their prospect of survival. As slaves they had to fight in order to survive but here God is teaching them.

Sabbath was a day of 'equality. If you read in Exodus 20:8-11. Everybody had the freedom of resting on the Sabbath no matter what your social status was. Whether you were a freeman, slave or weakest and most vulnerable in society, whom actually really needed the rest. The sabbath reminds us that we are all equal before God, recreated and redeemed and your employee ought to give the day for their employees to rest.

But sabbath keeping should not be be selfishly about us. As Jesus said, 'It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath' Matthew 12:12.

Jesus performed many miracles on the sabbath see the following scriptures:
Matthew 12:9-13, Mark 1:21-26, Mark 3:1-6, John 9:1-16
I notice that you completely missed the part in Exodus where the people were instructed NOT to collect manna on the Sabbath, because the provision from the previous day was enough and would last.

Sabbath was not primarily about equality, or about helping people, or sharing. It was about resting because God rested, and because humans need the rest, and because God said so. Yes, Jesus healed people on the Sabbath, but I sense in your post a tendency to make the appropriate activities of the Sabbath just another set of "must do's" that are completely antithetical to the original concept of Sabbath rest.