Taxing the rich?

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#61
There are a lot of factors in determining who might be rich or poor.
I believe Ricky stated he had a six figure income, but living in Calif., that would not qualify as rich while anyone here in Ark might be.
Minimum wage in Ark is $9,50, goes to $10 I Jan 2020 and $11 in 2021 and if one works 40 hours a week it is possible to live on that income if you live in rural areas and not in the cities.
Not fancy, but will buy food and shelter, and you qualify for state medicaid so no worries for normal medical cost.

SO, how many people do you personally know who are rich?

How many people do you personally know who make minimum wage after 6 months on the job?
I don't know any people personally that make over $13 per hour. and few that work 40hrs a week but for 2 people making $12 an hour 40 hrs. a week with 2 children they can live comfortably here in OK. In Los Angeles they would be miserable.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#62
No, I can't see. I know they've gotten a lot stricter regarding Americans crossing over. And it seems the Old age pension system and health systems seem to work better for those of us with no savings or insurance.
And so the government is our new caregiver. Let us not complain when they make all our decisions for us. imho
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#63
Well in Canada we do to school until 18 and we actual teach economics and employment skills in high school.

Keep putting everything on the shoulder of government rather then letting people run their own lives and well you can see where we are.
We took Wood, metal, printing, drafting and gardening. 5 weeks each. But in the late 60's to early 70's a HS diploma was considered a leg up. I took 20 weeks of metal and 40 weeks of auto in the 12th grade.

My first offer of a 401k was about 2005 when I was making $8 per hr. The highest hourly wage I ever earned was $9. But I worked for a few non profit organizations for low wages in my life time. Social Security and Medicare WAS my retirement plan. I paid into it since I was 15yoa.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#67
If the president is supposed to take any role in national finances. Why pick oe like Trump?
Trump has filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy for his companies six times. Three of the casino bankruptcies came during the recession of the early 1990s and the Gulf War, both of which contributed to hard times in Atlantic City, New Jersey's gambling facilities.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,248
25,719
113
#68
Well in Canada we do to school until 18 and we actual teach economics and employment skills in high school.

Keep putting everything on the shoulder of government rather then letting people run their own lives and well you can see where we are.
Employment skills like typing and adding machines? That is what we had, but, I was not interested in business and they were electives, not mandatory. Home economics taught sewing and cooking :p
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,243
16,252
113
69
Tennessee
#70
Wow this is not true.

All social programs are funded through taxes and debt.

The cost actually increases exponentially over time and the "quality" of said goods diminish over time.
...probably due to the law of diminishing returns.
 
Jul 20, 2019
1,228
882
113
#71
There is no such thing as 'free' healthcare, education, etc. SOMEONE pays for it. It's just a shifting of the cost from one place to another.
I will not sit idly by to see greedy selfish people ruin the lives of the elderly and poor. Our prime minister here just gave millionaire a tax cut, but he refuses to increase the welfare budget. People are homeless and going without meals. These same rich people cancelled the night shift at the local clothing plant because profits decreased, not because it was losing money, just because profits are down. Now we have another 24 people looking for employment. Greed, nothing but greed.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,261
2,386
113
#72
You do not seem to know how this works for a small business man.
If the government raise my taxes by $6,000 in one year, this is how it would be passed on to my customer---
I have about 10,000 transactions a year and each transaction is $100 so each transaction would only increase 60 cents or 0.6%.
Most people wound never realize the increase.
My taxes would go up $6,000 and the customers would pay the increase without even realizing it.

But, I never raised prices until my competition did, and they always did when cost went up.
Need to also understand, at some point, a small business owner will come to the point where the hours worked and the investment involved is not worth it so he just closes up, goes to work for someone else.
That puts people out of work, lessens competition, which leads to even higher prices.

If people want a socialist state, just understand that YOU will pay for it with YOUR money.
Every socialist state still has the rich. And those rich will continue to get richer at the expense of the consumer.
Agree.

This is how business works.

If you, as the consumer, vote to raise taxes or regulations on businesses, then you, as the consumer, end up paying for it... directly.



Competitors:
Will they absorb additional taxes and leave their prices the same, forcing me to lower my prices also?


If you think competitors would just "eat the increase" and keep their prices the same, and this would prevent YOUR BUSINESS from raising prices, that just isn't how it works.

A. Large businesses have stockholders to answer to. They WILL NOT TOLERATE a loss in profit.
Stockholders will literally say, "We need to make the same amount of money. We do not care how it gets done. DO ANYTHING.


B. Small business owners, who work very hard, WILL NOT WORK 70 HOURS A WEEK FOR LESS MONEY.
Small business owners work very hard, they aren't willing to just take less money for all their hard work.

As Spoon said, small business owners will find some way to make up the difference in money, or they'll just close up shop.
Highly driven people, who are highly motivated and highly entrepreneurial, just aren't going to work 60, 70, 80 hours a week for no money.

C. One competitor "eating the cost" won't change anything... it won't make others maintain low prices.
If one idiot you compete with decides to "eat the cost", so you can't raise your prices, there are MANY WAYS to justify a price increase.
You can still just RAISE YOUR PRICES.
This isn't a problem.

In fact, if you do that to ME, I'm going to drown you.
I could easily just imply (without even saying it) that everyone is raising their prices EXCEPT YOU, because.... wait for it... because MAYBE YOUR PRODUCT ISN'T ANY GOOD!

That's right, charging too little actually WORKS AGAINST YOU.
If you have a cheap price, you look like a cheap product.

When I consult with businesses, I tell them to NEVER get in a price war.
And I often tell them to actually RAISE their prices.

Price wars are always stupid.
They fail.
It won't even work on me... and I"m certainly not the sharpest or toughest guy around.

Another thought: often prices have nothing to do with producing the product in the first place.
What?
Prices have nothing to do with the product's actual cost?
Sometimes.
Sometimes prices are derived entirely through psychology and particular "holes" in the market place.
Some of the "premium" products you buy are exactly like the cheaper ones, but they target a "premium" niche in the marketplace because that was the only niche that was available.

All true.
I can name many premium products that are identical to the cheaper ones... they just targeted a different niche in the market.

So when competitors want a price war... it's always a mistake.
If you do that to me, I may raise my prices even more and just position myself pschologically as a better product.


D. Sometimes changes in regulations and taxes actually arise BECAUSE of competition... someone trying to create a monopoly by making the industry more difficult to operate in.

All true.

We need to be very wary of plans to increase taxes or regulations on business.
Sometimes these are actually planned, and lobbied, by BIG COMPANIES intending to destroy all the little guys... and that eventually stops all competition, and hurts YOU, the consumer.

How does this work?

If I'm a pharmaceutical company worth billions, and I want to take over the vitamin industry... how might I do that?
Hmmm... what do I have that all the little guys don't have?
Capital!
I have tons of capital.
So how can I use that?

Hmmm...
Well, I could try to get vitamins classified as "pharmaceuticals" instead of as food products.
Food products have few regulations, but pharmaceutical have HUGE regulations.
To put a drug on the market, you have to meet certain laboratory conditions, and go through all kinds of expensive testing with the FDA... this stuff costs MILLIONS.
So, to put all the little guys out of business, and take over the vitamin industry, all I have to do is lobby for regulations that reclassify vitamins, thus making the production of vitamins SO EXPENSIVE that nobody can afford to do it BUT ME!!
BAM.
All competitors are out of business over night.

(I bring this example up because it's a real thing, and every few years the big pharma companies try to reclassify vitamins. It's a real-life example.)

So, we have reason to be leery of new taxes and regulations on business.
Sometimes those are actually coming from competitors trying to create monopolies.

NOTHING IS EVER WHAT IT SEEMS.
:)


Capitalism is good... but it's rough out there, lol.
..
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#73
B. Small business owners, who work very hard, WILL NOT WORK 70 HOURS A WEEK FOR LESS MONEY.
Small business owners work very hard, they aren't willing to just take less money for all their hard work.
My business is opened 7AM till 6PM M thru F and 7AM till 12 noon on Sat.
When I hire people I tell them up front they will have to work 55 hours a week M thru Sat.
15 hours of OT at time and a half every week.
75% of those that apply refuse to work any OT or Sat even though they will make twice the money that any of my competitors pay.

I understand that some people are in need because of circumstances, but for many it is of their own making.
They are just not willing to work hard when the government bails them out.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#74
My business is opened 7AM till 6PM M thru F and 7AM till 12 noon on Sat.
When I hire people I tell them up front they will have to work 55 hours a week M thru Sat.
15 hours of OT at time and a half every week.
75% of those that apply refuse to work any OT or Sat even though they will make twice the money that any of my competitors pay.

I understand that some people are in need because of circumstances, but for many it is of their own making.
They are just not willing to work hard when the government bails them out.
We should replace welfare with workfare. Like the civilian conservation corps used to be.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#75
If people want a socialist state, just understand that YOU will pay for it with YOUR money.
Every socialist state still has the rich. And those rich will continue to get richer at the expense of the consumer.
Because corruption has no favorite party other that the one that serves their needs. And the sins of greed, lust with the seduction of fame and fortune are very powerful temptations. There is no secret that appearance of wealth is sexy. Many powerful people take advantage of it.

Can we legally producers and sales of foreign made products pay US Federal and state income taxes for each state they sell in? If not why not. Sure the cost of the products will go up but it seems unfair that honest American owned and operated and domestically produced products should have to compete here with stuff made in Sri Lanka or Malaysia. (for example)
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#76
Employment skills like typing and adding machines? That is what we had, but, I was not interested in business and they were electives, not mandatory. Home economics taught sewing and cooking :p
To be fair my dear. The education we received is different than those taught now days. To us College prep courses were only taught to a minority end economics was home related. Men were expected to go to work and women were expected to get married. In our areas factory work, truck driving or in in L.A. harbor dock workers were the back bones of our communities. Container freight, automation and imported products are changing everything. We were taught debt was a vice and credit cards were either very high priced luxuries or kept like a spare tire like if, the refrigerator goes on the fritz for example.

Now it's upside down. Good paying union jobs are vanishing. The young need much more education and all of "our stay out of debt" morality goes out the window when students have to borrow money to receive an education they hope is marketable some time in the future. The world has changed while we were working.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#79
Too funny .... are we talking about the Victorian era? :D

Surely you are not that old?
No the 1960's Catholic dominated Port of Los Angeles for my self. Other than school teachers and doctors. I don't think I knew anyone that went to college.

My father was a Fish Cannery worker and all my uncles were factory workers, fishermen and long shoreman. None of my aunt's worked after having children either. and they were all married in there teens and twenties. Only two knew how to drive.