To all of you non flat earthers.

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,207
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The stars work just like the two great lights. No.

Still waiting to prove the crux can or can not be seen at the same time day and night. Because if not then the crux moves in an orbit around the North Pole just like the sun and moon. All have their area of influence.
What exactly are you "waiting to prove"? Your sentence doesn't make sense.
 
May 23, 2021
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What exactly are you "waiting to prove"? Your sentence doesn't make sense.
The original dilemma was how can it be seen both in SA and Australia at the same time. If it can only be seen half the day, then at parts of the day crux is between both continents. If it can be seen 24 hours a day in both spots, that may be an issue. Not my issue though. I did not put forth the dilemma.
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
1,196
667
113
Australia
The stars work just like the two great lights. No.
Then why don't we ever see the dipper?
And why don't you ever see the crux?
We both see the sun and moon then we should both see the crux and dipper...
But we don't

Still waiting to prove the crux can or can not be seen at the same time day and night. Because if not then the crux moves in an orbit around the North Pole just like the sun and moon. All have their area of influence.
No no no... I have my observations from Australia, backed up by science...
Your the one that needs to try prove it... So far all your assertions have been false.
You've been misinformed on many things about the crux

Lets go through the facts again...

Fact - Every time we are facing crux we are facing south
Fact - Every time you are facing dipper you are facing north
Regardless of where its pointing or its elevation, orientation... Nothing changes those facts

Fact - We can all see the crux to the south at the same time when its dark
Fact - You can all see the dipper to the north at the same time when its dark

They are the obsverved facts... Accept them or not... I may be an undercover agent... A shill... Employed just to throw u off...:rolleyes:

You still haven't answered my very first question...
How can we all be looking south at the crux simultaneously???

FE1.jpg
You have not been able to explain this without using the "optical illusion" explanation
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
1,196
667
113
Australia
The original dilemma was how can it be seen both in SA and Australia at the same time. If it can only be seen half the day, then at parts of the day crux is between both continents. If it can be seen 24 hours a day in both spots, that may be an issue. Not my issue though. I did not put forth the dilemma.
Day??? Can u see stars in the day over there???

We can only see stars at night... True???

Fact - We can all see the crux to the south at the same time when its dark
Fact - You can all see the dipper to the north at the same time when its dark

Fact - We cannot see stars in the day

FE1.jpg FE2.jpg
The southern cross cannot be both in front of me and behind me at the same time...
Physically impossible
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
1,196
667
113
Australia
@Timtofly

But forget about the crux... You have been refuted by it...
Let's talk about why we can't see all the stars...

We both see the sun and moon so then why can't we both see dipper and crux at some point?

Feel free to jump in all the usual suspects...
@Moses_Young @GaryA

Why can't we both see the dipper and crux?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,207
10,090
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The original dilemma was how can it be seen both in SA and Australia at the same time. If it can only be seen half the day, then at parts of the day crux is between both continents. If it can be seen 24 hours a day in both spots, that may be an issue. Not my issue though. I did not put forth the dilemma.
There is no dilemma. As with all readily-visible constellations, it can be seen during the dark hours. When it is dark in both SA and Oz, the crux can be seen from both locations. When it is dark in both South America and Southern Africa, the crux can be seen from both. When it is dark in both Australia and Southern Africa, the crux can be seen from both.

How hard is that?
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
1,196
667
113
Australia
The original dilemma was how can it be seen both in SA and Australia at the same time. If it can only be seen half the day, then at parts of the day crux is between both continents. If it can be seen 24 hours a day in both spots, that may be an issue. Not my issue though. I did not put forth the dilemma.
Do you agree that we cannot see stars in the day time??? I assume yes

How then do u expect us to see the crux 24 hours a day???
Can u see dipper 24 hours a day??? No of course not...
Then why do u expect the crux to be seen in the day???

At 6pm here i see the crux to the south...
Meanwhile, in South America it is 4-5am and they are also looking south at the crux...


FE3.jpg

And so i ask again... How???
Stop trying to avoid the question
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
1,787
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@Timtofly @Dino246 @Moses_Young @GaryA @surfer14

OK guys... How about this one...

Why can't we see the dipper from down here?
And why can't you guys up north see the crux?

Shouldn't we be able to see all the stars if this FE model were correct?
Basically, the further you get from the stars, the lower on the horizon they are. Like the railway tracks and the sunrise/sunset. I counter this with the argument - "If Earth is a ball, why can you see Polaris from the Southern Hemisphere?" It should be impossible, unless the Earth is flat.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,115
843
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Simple question. How do you flat earthers explain the lunar eclipse? IOW, how does a flat earth get between the earth and the moon?

Simple answer. It can't.
 
May 23, 2021
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Then why don't we ever see the dipper?
And why don't you ever see the crux?
We both see the sun and moon then we should both see the crux and dipper...
But we don't



No no no... I have my observations from Australia, backed up by science...
Your the one that needs to try prove it... So far all your assertions have been false.
You've been misinformed on many things about the crux

Lets go through the facts again...

Fact - Every time we are facing crux we are facing south
Fact - Every time you are facing dipper you are facing north
Regardless of where its pointing or its elevation, orientation... Nothing changes those facts

Fact - We can all see the crux to the south at the same time when its dark
Fact - You can all see the dipper to the north at the same time when its dark

They are the obsverved facts... Accept them or not... I may be an undercover agent... A shill... Employed just to throw u off...:rolleyes:

You still haven't answered my very first question...
How can we all be looking south at the crux simultaneously???

View attachment 228507
You have not been able to explain this without using the "optical illusion" explanation
You in Australia do not see the exact same position of crux at the exact same time those in Africa do.

It is between you and them. Besides, looking in the "direction of" is not the same as the direction the crux is actually pointing to. Several angles are involved.
 
May 23, 2021
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Simple question. How do you flat earthers explain the lunar eclipse? IOW, how does a flat earth get between the earth and the moon?

Simple answer. It can't.
Simple answer: it does not. The two great lights get between each other and the earth.

All lights in the sky are in orbit around the north pole. The sun and moon are in orbits between the big dipper and crux.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,583
407
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Simple answer: it does not. The two great lights get between each other and the earth.

All lights in the sky are in orbit around the north pole. The sun and moon are in orbits between the big dipper and crux.
So you're saying that the sun and moon are in orbit (revolve) around the earth?
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
1,196
667
113
Australia
You in Australia do not see the exact same position of crux at the exact same time those in Africa do.
Thats correct...
At 6pm i see the crux standing upright in the 12 o'clock position
While in South America they are seeing the crux upside down in the 6 o'clock position

But its position, or where its pointing or its orientation does not change the fact we are facing south
crux south.jpg
Do u even look at these pictures?
Same as the dipper in the north. Upside down, side ways doesn't matter... Your facing north still
dipper north.jpg


It is between you and them.
Impossible. That would mean the crux is to the east or west. The crux is ALWAYS south
FE3.jpg

Besides, looking in the "direction of" is not the same as the direction the crux is actually pointing to. Several angles are involved.
Again. The way the crux is pointing has nothing to do with the following fact...

Facing crux = Facing south
At its extremes you are facing 25 degrees off precise south. South south west or south south east. 25 degrees is a tiny margin
That tiny margin doesn't change the fact that their seeing the crux behind me. Which is at 180 degrees

crux south.jpg
Just admit it Tim... You have no valid explanation for this...

FE1.jpg FE2.jpg
The stars don't lie and the compass doesn't lie... Only men do
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
1,196
667
113
Australia
Basically, the further you get from the stars, the lower on the horizon they are. Like the railway tracks and the sunrise/sunset. I counter this with the argument -
Moses Young... U and your shifty Aussie replies. Thats the only kind of reply i could think of as well... :unsure:
Its unproven still, but its possible i guess
I must say of all the flat earthers on this forum you've given the most valid responses... Barely valid though. :sneaky:
I still disagree with this FE model mostly cos of the crux situation.;)

"If Earth is a ball, why can you see Polaris from the Southern Hemisphere?" It should be impossible, unless the Earth is flat.
Remember but Moses... Im not arguing for BE... But, from what i understand...
Polaris can be seen from up to 23 degrees south of the equator because of the earths tilt, but only for a limited time of year...
Same thing with the crux... Right now, from what i read, they can see the crux from 25 degrees north of the equator
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,207
10,090
113
Simple answer: it does not. The two great lights get between each other and the earth.
A lunar eclipse is where the Earth is between the sun and the moon. You can't explain it in your FE model. The "explanation" above is utter nonsense.

All lights in the sky are in orbit around the north pole.
Um, no. They orbit around the axis formed by the North and South poles, which is the axis on which the Earth revolves.

Have you even glanced once at the pictures that PC123 has provided (repeatedly)? He's showing the SOUTH celestial sphere, not the North! See how the paths of the stars form concentric circles around a single point? That point is the South celestial pole. You can't explain that with the North-centric pancake model.
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
1,196
667
113
Australia
North-centric pancake model.
Ahahaha ohh my goodness that is hilarious...:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
North-centric pancake model...:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL: I love it
Where did u pull that from???

Man u had me laughing hard there for a few minutes...

A lot of what they say sounds like they are from observations taken from the northern hemisphere, before they ventured into the south around the 16th century.

I'm not sure Tim even takes any notice of the diagrams I have posted. He never refers to them anyway. I tried to make them as self explanatory as possible.

And if I had a dollar for every time I said facing crux = facing south I'd be rich. Now he suggests the the crux is somewhere between us...:rolleyes:To the east or west

Moses has given the best responses out of the FE crew here... I don't agree with him but he leaves a possibility tiny as it may be
 
May 23, 2021
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So you're saying that the sun and moon are in orbit (revolve) around the earth?
Not around, above the earth. There is no round except the path of orbit. The lines of latitude are circles. The ones in the southern hemisphere are larger than the ones in the northern hemisphere. So the crux is traveling twice as fast as the big dipper. The crux is never directly south because it is moving too fast to be in the same "spot" above one's point of view. That point is not looking due south. It is only looking in that general direction. Even on a map those in Australia are not directly "in front of" or "behind" those at the tip of Africa or South America. These locations have a triangle shape with three sides. There is not a 4th continent to make it a square of equal sides.
 
May 23, 2021
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Thats correct...
At 6pm i see the crux standing upright in the 12 o'clock position
While in South America they are seeing the crux upside down in the 6 o'clock position

But its position, or where its pointing or its orientation does not change the fact we are facing south
View attachment 228542
Do u even look at these pictures?
Same as the dipper in the north. Upside down, side ways doesn't matter... Your facing north still
View attachment 228543




Impossible. That would mean the crux is to the east or west. The crux is ALWAYS south
View attachment 228544



Again. The way the crux is pointing has nothing to do with the following fact...

Facing crux = Facing south
At its extremes you are facing 25 degrees off precise south. South south west or south south east. 25 degrees is a tiny margin
That tiny margin doesn't change the fact that their seeing the crux behind me. Which is at 180 degrees

View attachment 228545
Just admit it Tim... You have no valid explanation for this...

View attachment 228549 View attachment 228550
The stars don't lie and the compass doesn't lie... Only men do
You are not exactly opposite of south America. It is a difference of 13 hours.

You say the math (exact mathematical angles) does not count, only your perspective.

Then you claim the stars (math) cannot lie, only your perspective.

Which statement are you sticking to?
 
May 23, 2021
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A lunar eclipse is where the Earth is between the sun and the moon. You can't explain it in your FE model. The "explanation" above is utter nonsense.


Um, no. They orbit around the axis formed by the North and South poles, which is the axis on which the Earth revolves.

Have you even glanced once at the pictures that PC123 has provided (repeatedly)? He's showing the SOUTH celestial sphere, not the North! See how the paths of the stars form concentric circles around a single point? That point is the South celestial pole. You can't explain that with the North-centric pancake model.
For one, he is not looking straight across the horizon. He is looking up at the sky, and that does not matter to him. His looking up is the same as looking straight. It does matter if you are doing a specific calculation of exactly where you are, where SA is and who is looking where.

I look south to see the moon. Does he look north to see the moon, or is it also south for him? Every one in the whole world looks south to see the crux. No one has ever looked north to find it.


Ever heard of an earth eclipse? Why not?