Ukraine the bad guy?

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,275
6,649
113
Did it ever occur to you that you might possibly be wrong?

I understand that the MSM is usually wrong and anything that they support is usually the wrong side.

But know that the MOST difficult thing for people to do is admit they were wrong.
nope.
nato and russia, bush sr. and gorbachev agreed that russia would scale down military and nato would not expand.

nato expanded, russia began to build back up it's military, and that led us to where we are today.

and, for the 12th time, russia does not want nato missiles in ukraine and more than you would want russian missiles in mexico.

the difference is that america would try to use diplomacy to keep russian missiles out of mexico.

putin does not do diplomacy. he does tanks and missiles.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,271
3,106
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Ukraine is a corrupt nation with verified Nazis in their military. Putin is doing the Lord’s work. Bless him.
I did not know that murdering women and children is the Lord's work. I did not know that lying and deception is a godly pursuit either. If Putin is doing God's work, how come it's going so poorly for him? His 3-day "special operation" is turning into a pointless orgy of destruction. Is it God's work to stop the supply of needed grain to those who cannot grow it themselves? Or is Putin a childish despot who lashes out when he can't get his own way?

Which nation is not corrupt? All I know is that I would rather live in Ukraine than in Russia.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,177
2,479
113
nope.
nato and russia, bush sr. and gorbachev agreed that russia would scale down military and nato would not expand.

nato expanded, russia began to build back up it's military, and that led us to where we are today.

and, for the 12th time, russia does not want nato missiles in ukraine and more than you would want russian missiles in mexico.

the difference is that america would try to use diplomacy to keep russian missiles out of mexico.

putin does not do diplomacy. he does tanks and missiles.
Why not look into some of these things that you claim to be facts.
Because I happen to know that some of your "facts" are propaganda....they aren't in ANY documents. They ARE statements made by propagandists with no basis in fact.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,275
6,649
113
Why not look into some of these things that you claim to be facts.
Because I happen to know that some of your "facts" are propaganda....they aren't in ANY documents. They ARE statements made by propagandists with no basis in fact.
the source of my info is the national security archive.

there you will see where sec. of state james baker told the russian president that " nato would not move on inch eastward"

then , bush sr. told him the same thing.

this was the 1990. 91 summits that this documented event happned.

so, adjust your sources if they say that this did not happen, because it is 100% documented facts.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,177
2,479
113
the source of my info is the national security archive.

there you will see where sec. of state james baker told the russian president that " nato would not move on inch eastward"

then , bush sr. told him the same thing.

this was the 1990. 91 summits that this documented event happned.

so, adjust your sources if they say that this did not happen, because it is 100% documented facts.
Put up the link and quotes....a signed treaty.

Meanwhile
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,177
2,479
113
the source of my info is the national security archive.

there you will see where sec. of state james baker told the russian president that " nato would not move on inch eastward"

then , bush sr. told him the same thing.

this was the 1990. 91 summits that this documented event happned.

so, adjust your sources if they say that this did not happen, because it is 100% documented facts.
Also one last little key fact.....

Do you know what the requirements are for joining NATO?....it's not just a desire to join...
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,275
6,649
113
Put up the link and quotes....a signed treaty.

Meanwhile
nope.

i do not do links.

if you care, you will look it up. if you don't, then you won't.

and, it was a word of mouth agreement at the summits.

mind you, this is documented in AMERICAN national security archives, not russian.

so, look up " bush sr gorbachev agreement nato.

but, i did not do homework for others in school, nor do i do it now.
 
Aug 8, 2023
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Some seem to imagine that Russia is justified in waging war against Ukraine. I would like to know what nation is squeaky clean enough to point the finger at supposedly evil Ukraine. When I look at a country, my first thought is, would I like to live there? Would I prefer America to China? I've not visited China, but I know enough to say that I would rather live in America. It's far from perfect, but you can vote out the administration if you don't like it. Or can be bothered voting.

Would I prefer Russia to Ukraine? No. As has been said, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Putin has entrenched himself in power and who can dislodge him?

America has its own problems. If God is using Russia to punish Ukraine, then watch out Americans. You are no better than Ukraine. China is your nemesis. And Australia will be caught up in the conflict as well.
God never created man to fight.

Increasing poverty and homelessness is hard evidence of corrupt government, nothing else.

Apocalypse is being born right now.

The west, bloodstained decendants of cain, have designed and manufactured tactical nukes; devised a war plan for them; and will immorally use them in a first strike against Russia and China all because it is unable to compete with these countries fairly.
Evil men decided to nuke the developmental progress in those countries back over one hundred years, with no care for the billions of innocent people that will die.

Do unto others what you wish done for you is prophecy, all evil will soon be eradicated by evil. Evil actually destroys itself and will entirely perish in nuclear winter. The faithful have nothing to fear, evil can take one's life but not one's soul.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,257
6,587
113
I never thought I'd see support for an Atheist nation on a Christian chat site, but here we are.
Christians are supposed to be doers of the law, not a judge of the law. We are not here as judges, we are here as witnesses.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,683
8,225
113
God never created man to fight.

Increasing poverty and homelessness is hard evidence of corrupt government, nothing else.

Apocalypse is being born right now.

The west, bloodstained decendants of cain, have designed and manufactured tactical nukes; devised a war plan for them; and will immorally use them in a first strike against Russia and China all because it is unable to compete with these countries fairly.
Evil men decided to nuke the developmental progress in those countries back over one hundred years, with no care for the billions of innocent people that will die.

Do unto others what you wish done for you is prophecy, all evil will soon be eradicated by evil. Evil actually destroys itself and will entirely perish in nuclear winter. The faithful have nothing to fear, evil can take one's life but not one's soul.
What "they" discovered after WW2 was that war was by far the biggest and most profitable game in the casino.

Making TV's and washing machines? That antiquated business model has been offshored. Not enough profit nor pillage.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,257
6,587
113
"Enormous daylight air strikes all across Ukraine today. Air defense seems nonexistent, Russia is striking at will."

It's over man. Time to bury the hatchet.
But what about the 38 Abrams tanks? I heard that all Ukraine needs is another 362 tanks + Patriot Missiles + F16s and they can mount a real counterattack.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,177
2,479
113
nope.

i do not do links.

if you care, you will look it up. if you don't, then you won't.

and, it was a word of mouth agreement at the summits.

mind you, this is documented in AMERICAN national security archives, not russian.

so, look up " bush sr gorbachev agreement nato.

but, i did not do homework for others in school, nor do i do it now.
Oh I've done mine....and know that you cannot provide a link to something that doesn't exist. It absolutely does not. All the claims made are from a Russian propagandist working out of Serbia.
(In case you were curious to the origin)

Because it never happened, was promised, not part of any agreement or treaty.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,177
2,479
113
I did not know that murdering women and children is the Lord's work. I did not know that lying and deception is a godly pursuit either. If Putin is doing God's work, how come it's going so poorly for him? His 3-day "special operation" is turning into a pointless orgy of destruction. Is it God's work to stop the supply of needed grain to those who cannot grow it themselves? Or is Putin a childish despot who lashes out when he can't get his own way?

Which nation is not corrupt? All I know is that I would rather live in Ukraine than in Russia.
The fighting continues....
Wars do not stop because of military actions. There's not going to be a decisive victory in this by Russia or Ukraine....only more death and destruction.

Russia is going to pound Ukraine into the stone age before they will get tired and broke and decide they want to establish trade with the entire world again. Especially with Ukraine targeting their tanker ships.