Ukraine the bad guy?

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gb9

Senior Member
#2,061
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
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#2,061
JohnDB said:
Did it ever occur to you that you might possibly be wrong?

I understand that the MSM is usually wrong and anything that they support is usually the wrong side.

But know that the MOST difficult thing for people to do is admit they were wrong.
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nope.
nato and russia, bush sr. and gorbachev agreed that russia would scale down military and nato would not expand.

nato expanded, russia began to build back up it's military, and that led us to where we are today.

and, for the 12th time, russia does not want nato missiles in ukraine and more than you would want russian missiles in mexico.

the difference is that america would try to use diplomacy to keep russian missiles out of mexico.

putin does not do diplomacy. he does tanks and missiles.
 
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Gideon300

Well-known member
#2,062
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
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#2,062
Kaniel_Outis_Ogygia said:
Ukraine is a corrupt nation with verified Nazis in their military. Putin is doing the Lord’s work. Bless him.
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I did not know that murdering women and children is the Lord's work. I did not know that lying and deception is a godly pursuit either. If Putin is doing God's work, how come it's going so poorly for him? His 3-day "special operation" is turning into a pointless orgy of destruction. Is it God's work to stop the supply of needed grain to those who cannot grow it themselves? Or is Putin a childish despot who lashes out when he can't get his own way?

Which nation is not corrupt? All I know is that I would rather live in Ukraine than in Russia.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#2,064
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
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gb9 said:
nope.
nato and russia, bush sr. and gorbachev agreed that russia would scale down military and nato would not expand.

nato expanded, russia began to build back up it's military, and that led us to where we are today.

and, for the 12th time, russia does not want nato missiles in ukraine and more than you would want russian missiles in mexico.

the difference is that america would try to use diplomacy to keep russian missiles out of mexico.

putin does not do diplomacy. he does tanks and missiles.
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Why not look into some of these things that you claim to be facts.
Because I happen to know that some of your "facts" are propaganda....they aren't in ANY documents. They ARE statements made by propagandists with no basis in fact.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#2,065
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
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#2,065
JohnDB said:
Why not look into some of these things that you claim to be facts.
Because I happen to know that some of your "facts" are propaganda....they aren't in ANY documents. They ARE statements made by propagandists with no basis in fact.
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the source of my info is the national security archive.

there you will see where sec. of state james baker told the russian president that " nato would not move on inch eastward"

then , bush sr. told him the same thing.

this was the 1990. 91 summits that this documented event happned.

so, adjust your sources if they say that this did not happen, because it is 100% documented facts.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#2,066
Jan 16, 2021
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#2,066
gb9 said:
the source of my info is the national security archive.

there you will see where sec. of state james baker told the russian president that " nato would not move on inch eastward"

then , bush sr. told him the same thing.

this was the 1990. 91 summits that this documented event happned.

so, adjust your sources if they say that this did not happen, because it is 100% documented facts.
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Put up the link and quotes....a signed treaty.

Meanwhile
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1688638653566730241
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#2,067
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
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#2,067
gb9 said:
the source of my info is the national security archive.

there you will see where sec. of state james baker told the russian president that " nato would not move on inch eastward"

then , bush sr. told him the same thing.

this was the 1990. 91 summits that this documented event happned.

so, adjust your sources if they say that this did not happen, because it is 100% documented facts.
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Also one last little key fact.....

Do you know what the requirements are for joining NATO?....it's not just a desire to join...
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#2,068
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
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#2,068
JohnDB said:
Put up the link and quotes....a signed treaty.

Meanwhile
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1688638653566730241
Click to expand...
nope.

i do not do links.

if you care, you will look it up. if you don't, then you won't.

and, it was a word of mouth agreement at the summits.

mind you, this is documented in AMERICAN national security archives, not russian.

so, look up " bush sr gorbachev agreement nato.

but, i did not do homework for others in school, nor do i do it now.
 
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I_am_what_I_am

Banned
#2,069
Aug 8, 2023
16
1
1
#2,069
Gideon300 said:
Some seem to imagine that Russia is justified in waging war against Ukraine. I would like to know what nation is squeaky clean enough to point the finger at supposedly evil Ukraine. When I look at a country, my first thought is, would I like to live there? Would I prefer America to China? I've not visited China, but I know enough to say that I would rather live in America. It's far from perfect, but you can vote out the administration if you don't like it. Or can be bothered voting.

Would I prefer Russia to Ukraine? No. As has been said, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Putin has entrenched himself in power and who can dislodge him?

America has its own problems. If God is using Russia to punish Ukraine, then watch out Americans. You are no better than Ukraine. China is your nemesis. And Australia will be caught up in the conflict as well.
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God never created man to fight.

Increasing poverty and homelessness is hard evidence of corrupt government, nothing else.

Apocalypse is being born right now.

The west, bloodstained decendants of cain, have designed and manufactured tactical nukes; devised a war plan for them; and will immorally use them in a first strike against Russia and China all because it is unable to compete with these countries fairly.
Evil men decided to nuke the developmental progress in those countries back over one hundred years, with no care for the billions of innocent people that will die.

Do unto others what you wish done for you is prophecy, all evil will soon be eradicated by evil. Evil actually destroys itself and will entirely perish in nuclear winter. The faithful have nothing to fear, evil can take one's life but not one's soul.
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#2,071
Sep 14, 2020
36,778
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#2,071
NightTwister said:
I never thought I'd see support for an Atheist nation on a Christian chat site, but here we are.
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Christians are supposed to be doers of the law, not a judge of the law. We are not here as judges, we are here as witnesses.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#2,073
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
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#2,073
I_am_what_I_am said:
God never created man to fight.

Increasing poverty and homelessness is hard evidence of corrupt government, nothing else.

Apocalypse is being born right now.

The west, bloodstained decendants of cain, have designed and manufactured tactical nukes; devised a war plan for them; and will immorally use them in a first strike against Russia and China all because it is unable to compete with these countries fairly.
Evil men decided to nuke the developmental progress in those countries back over one hundred years, with no care for the billions of innocent people that will die.

Do unto others what you wish done for you is prophecy, all evil will soon be eradicated by evil. Evil actually destroys itself and will entirely perish in nuclear winter. The faithful have nothing to fear, evil can take one's life but not one's soul.
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What "they" discovered after WW2 was that war was by far the biggest and most profitable game in the casino.

Making TV's and washing machines? That antiquated business model has been offshored. Not enough profit nor pillage.
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#2,074
Sep 14, 2020
36,778
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#2,074
cv5 said:
"Enormous daylight air strikes all across Ukraine today. Air defense seems nonexistent, Russia is striking at will."

It's over man. Time to bury the hatchet.
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But what about the 38 Abrams tanks? I heard that all Ukraine needs is another 362 tanks + Patriot Missiles + F16s and they can mount a real counterattack.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#2,077
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
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#2,077
gb9 said:
nope.

i do not do links.

if you care, you will look it up. if you don't, then you won't.

and, it was a word of mouth agreement at the summits.

mind you, this is documented in AMERICAN national security archives, not russian.

so, look up " bush sr gorbachev agreement nato.

but, i did not do homework for others in school, nor do i do it now.
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Oh I've done mine....and know that you cannot provide a link to something that doesn't exist. It absolutely does not. All the claims made are from a Russian propagandist working out of Serbia.
(In case you were curious to the origin)

Because it never happened, was promised, not part of any agreement or treaty.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#2,078
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
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#2,078
Gideon300 said:
I did not know that murdering women and children is the Lord's work. I did not know that lying and deception is a godly pursuit either. If Putin is doing God's work, how come it's going so poorly for him? His 3-day "special operation" is turning into a pointless orgy of destruction. Is it God's work to stop the supply of needed grain to those who cannot grow it themselves? Or is Putin a childish despot who lashes out when he can't get his own way?

Which nation is not corrupt? All I know is that I would rather live in Ukraine than in Russia.
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The fighting continues....
Wars do not stop because of military actions. There's not going to be a decisive victory in this by Russia or Ukraine....only more death and destruction.

Russia is going to pound Ukraine into the stone age before they will get tired and broke and decide they want to establish trade with the entire world again. Especially with Ukraine targeting their tanker ships.
 
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