True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security
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But David repented of those sins.
See post #50: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60679-possible-go-24-hours-without-sin-3.html
King David did not have Jesus and the NT and the baptism of the Holy Spirit and BORN OF GOD... This all came AFTER Jesus...
Look at the next two verses and see the process of God at Work... 1 john 1:8 to 10... Look at the CLEANSE OF ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.... And the SINNED in the PAST tense because that is what God does... He puts sin in the past and REMOVE ALL SIN FROM HIS CHILDREN... AND HIS CHILDREN FROM SIN...
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Jesus cleanse us throgh the BORN OF GOD... 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18... They KEEPETH CLEAN>>>>1 JOhn 5:18 READ IT...
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
They are not in wickedness, they are IN CHRIST.. and KEEPETH THEMSELVES THERE,.... In Holiness..
Blain I see a bit of stubborness in you.. Look who God says sins.... And it is NOT HIS CHILDREN... He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Ya i guess i am kinda stubborn that i certainly am trust me even i hate my stubborness, but i also know what the lord says not what you or sinless believe. No man can never sin, sin is even in our thoughts. Jesus knows this and understands so he does not condemn us for it. you know by what you believe, i know by what god has taught me. I am willing to admit I sin, i only wish to become like Jesus. when in the bible did Jesus say, if you love me you will never again have a hateful thought? If you think we have the choice to never sin again i am afraid you are very misguided. It's very easy to take scripture out of context so be careful what scripture you post because the word of god is a divine and sacred thing
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
One man believes I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Another says I am limited because of my works of the flesh.
I reckon both men are right
Another says I am limited because of my works of the flesh.
I reckon both men are right
Yes i do but even so we are human after all. We have new thoughts yes but sin is a constant battle between the flesh and the spirit. It would take a
very long amount of refining by fire to become even 90% like christ. the flesh will always have fleshly desires but it will not have power over us if we don't let it. This is not the same as never again sinning as that is quite impossible as long as we are bound to earth by this body
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
Absolutely Blain, it does take time, perseverance, struggle, sacrifice, suffering, pain, all those wonderful purifying things.
Yet we are told though
"For though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes."
When calamity strikes do you embrace it, and laugh in its face knowing the enemy is attacking getting frustrated by not gaining any ground while the Lord is teaching you.
or do you give in allowing the enemy reason to laugh in Gods face.
We don't have to let the latter happen.
Think of it like a dog barking as its running after you trying to scare you off
Some run, some ignore the dog and walk past.
Similar to a roaring Lion which has grown old and only roars because its teeth are worn and no longer has the stealth to attack quietly like a young bold lion.
And why are we told the righteous are as bold as a lion?
Consider the difference between a roaring Lion and one that is bold and needs not roar.
The roaring Lions strength is only in his roar
The bold lions strength is known in what it is capable of and needs not advertise it.
When Christ is in you, you know what you are capable of.
For instance overcoming the enemy, overcoming transgression against God, helping another brother etc.
I don't believe anyone is suggesting the good fight can be won overnight.
What is the good fight anyway? if not the spiritual battle within us.
What is the spiritual battle if not the one fought to reclaim our soul as well as others to Christ.
The battle also though to go and sin no more, as Christ told the adulterous woman.
Or did Jesus set her up for failure? I dont believe he would do such a thing were the directive not possible.
I dont feel we should look to the scriptures for the verses of
we have all fallen short
there is none without sin
Manmade ones such as "I'm only human"
etc as consoling to make us feel better if we sin
But instead I feel these verses should be looked at more as how we once were but can be so much more complete in God.
It could be those verses were an exclamation of the disgust from the apostles toward some people, to shame them.
Why would Christ say to go and sin no more only for his followers to proclaim that its not possible?
The message is to strive for it, as opposed to give in to a discouraging belief of defeat.
A wise saying says "As a man thinks in his heart, so he is"
This can directly apply to the thought process of constantly telling ourselves we are going to just keep on sinning and falling short and being a sinner.
Or...is it better to keep reminding ourselves of what Jesus said, go and sin no more, go and sin no more, if you want to be perfect sell all you own and give to the poor. be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect.
What words of the Lord does one choose to meditate upon makes a difference.
What words do the enemy cause us to meditate upon???(knowing were a believer and listen to Gods word..hint hint)
And true we all have some amount of sin simply due to our flesh still being present.
But which is more noble, having a thought of sin but not carrying it out
(such as be angry but not sin)
or having a thought of sin and thinking well Jesus said if we hate our brother we have already comited murder so I may as well go ahead and carry out my thoughts.
If the thoughts are not carried out they are not fed by action
When they are not fed by action and instead cast away, they diminish
Little by little, they all start to diminish......until few are left
when few are left, do you feel it is possible to conquer those few one by one as well.
With Christ as the one who strengthens you to do so of course.
Likewise when faith is carried out by action more and more replacing sin, what can the result be?
Other than the Fathers will by always only listening to him as opposed to our own limitations if relying on ourselves.
True, with man these things are not possible
With God all things are possible
Is the Lords arm too short
Shall we place any limits upon God?
I don't claim to be sinless myself, I sin once in awhile to remind myself I'm human (lol
)but do you ever have your moments, perhaps 5 minutes out of the day that you can reflect back upon and see there was no sin in you during that moment for either totally hearing the spirit or carrying out the fathers will.
Then maybe another time it was a half hour or more.
Then maybe, just maybe that time of no sin and instead righteousness taking its place can become greater as Gods presence becomes greater in you.
Allowing Gods presence being totally willing to be in submission to him while crucifying our flesh having no fear of the one who can kill the body...what could become of such a man ?
It absolutely amazes me how anyone can ignore the entire context of Ephesians 5 to claim this, as follows:
And then proceed on to say this, as follows:
It just makes the breath fall right out of me to see this level of reasoning.
It would be better to sin without thinking about it than to rationalize what Christ did for us to be a cloak for sinners to get away with sinning.
2 Corinthians 6:1 "We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain."
Read ahead in Ephesians 5 and read on after there at 2 Corinthians 6
And then proceed on to say this, as follows:
It just makes the breath fall right out of me to see this level of reasoning.
It would be better to sin without thinking about it than to rationalize what Christ did for us to be a cloak for sinners to get away with sinning.
2 Corinthians 6:1 "We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain."
Read ahead in Ephesians 5 and read on after there at 2 Corinthians 6
I'm amazed at Starfield's knowledge of scripture. I think we need to be really careful with holding onto our doctrines so dearly. Instead, we should look to the Word of God and ask for wisdom to see it as it really is.
True faith bears works. Works do not save us, but true faith will make us move in accordance to God's will.
If there is anyone out there, youth especially, who is in doubt about their salvation, I encourage you to watch this sermon by Paul Washer on youtube The Shocking Youth Message (Paul Washer) - YouTube There is a lot of bad doctrine out there floating around, but I don't think there are many as deadly as the doctrine of 'once saved always saved.' Read the Word of God yourselves and ask in the name of Jesus for wisdom.
God bless guys.
edit- Just wanted to reaffirm how awesome starfield is
If you beleive and God knows who these are that do believe and will carry on the work for those that do beleive and noone can snatch us out of his hand and no weapon formed against us shall ever prosper
Why does man continue to not beleive in the power of the cross of salvation in and by God in and at the cross where new life is available at after the death
Man over the years has destroyed this miraculous salvation adding all kinds of works to it
And I am hurt over these evil doers acting all righteous like the leaders in Christs day
Now will any of you escape oh man
Hebrews 2:3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
The power of salvation is in the cross where one recieves everything they need for life and Godliness nowhere else is this found
Im sorry Blain, but this is untrue. The Father would never teach you that it is impossible to be free from sin. You have not learned this from Christ
Ephesians 4
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Amen, as a man thinks so is he. That is why it is so important that we persist to teach the truth of the gospel even in the face of ridicule. If even one comes to the truth it is well worth it
Wellthese should cover itthat at the crossis where all sin wastaken out of the way by Christ at the death of Christ in Christ's Father's sight. Now all one needs is to move onto the ressurected Christ at the cross and recieve new life here and now in the Spirit of Christ.
But I found I could not dothis untilI finalized that Iwas and am forgiven by Christ at the death of Christ at the cross, then I was made abletosee the new life in the Spirit of God wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing, and therefore I rested and am rested from any of my own works, been transferred to just trust in God the Father. He put me to rest by belief as hebrews 3 and 4 talk about
Romans 3:24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
1 Corinthians 1:30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption
Ephesians 1:7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Colossians 1:14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Hebrews 9:12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Hebrews 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Colossians 3:13Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Colossians 2:13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
1 John 2:12I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
Originally Posted by MidniteWelder
One man believes I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Another says I am limited because of my works of the flesh.
I reckon both men are right
It is true, so why don't you stop living defeated and start walking in victory
Homeward Im shocked, not one of those verses say anything about future sins being forgiven before we even commit them, must less if we refuse to repent of them, but oddly enough if you would have kept reading from Romans 3:24 you would have seen Paul tells us that only our past sins are forgiven at conversion
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Actually Radius have you forgotten that ones past sins are forgiven there is no need to ask because as soon as a sin is past it is forgiven therefore in response to this we say thank you to Father for this wonderful gift and seek how to walk by Father circumspectly, doing what is right by Father as Christ has already done for us. We grow in grace.
Romans 3:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
2 Peter 1:9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
How fast are our sins any of them past tense? Yes as soon as they are done and we are forgiven because we have an advocate
1 John 2:1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One
Who makes constant intercession for us,so we recieve the solid food
Hebrews 5:14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
God is good only and being in God by Christ we are made the same and learntoact the same with no credit ofour own for we live by Faith in Christ back at the cross of Christ by the resurrection of christ