Is baptism Essential for salvation?

zone · May 17, 2013

and you are also very good at adding to his words:

"Paul said he was not sent to lay the hands on anyone so that they could be baptized in the Holy Spirit, but he did do so with the household of Stephanas but did not know whether he had baptized any other."

WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT.

kardiaoangelous said:

stop adding to what is written PLEASE.

zone · May 17, 2013

kardiaoangelous said:

Your reasoning shows true spiritual thinking. My spirit appreciates the connections your spirit has shown there. Clearly you are hearing God's spirit.

This was a crucial verse to appreciate, John 2:6 "And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece."

I see what compares to what you said in that shortly thereafter John spoke of Jesus' zeal toward the cleansing of God's temple and then of, John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body."

Jesus body' is that vessel of the water turned into wine and that temple for the curing of the nations. And we know that body to be his bride or church.

Then as we proceed on into chapter 3 of John we find, John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Thus this set the theme for being born of baptism by the Holy Spirit. And it is interesting to follow it from there.

REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED (IN WATER) IN RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

mystics just run on ahead of the doctrines of Christ, without fear, without care.

ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM.....water.

Ciscokid · May 17, 2013

starfield---Please, please don't fall into the "one scripture salvation syndrome".
Eph 2:9 does not totally explain or give FULL instructions on the way to be saved.
Eph 2"9 gives no scriptural evidence--either way--as to the necessity of baptism.
Eph 2"9 is only saying that salvation cannot be obtained by the works of man own self righteousness, because salvation is a gift of God.

kardiaoangelous · May 17, 2013

zone said:

Some see but not all.

Matthew 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Now, zone, what is the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ?
And how is the Holy Spirit involved in that?

notuptome · May 17, 2013

Water cannot save. If it could Christ would not have died on the cross. Blood must be shed to atone for sin. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that gives us life to moment we ask Christ to save us from our sins. The first ten verses of Ephesians lays a firm foundation for those who have not quite grasped this doctrine.
Water baptism is not viewed in the same context today by Gentiles as it was by the early church Jewish believers to whom the word was given.
Christ made atonement for our sins by shedding His blood. His blood is wholly sufficient to save us. Nothing can be added to the finished work of Christ. To receive the grace of God one must believe. Salvation is instantaneous and not a process. Our walk with Christ after salvation is a process.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

kardiaoangelous · May 17, 2013

zone said:

Yes, that is what adding the words (IN WATER) there is as doing.

Listen to Jesus tell you what that baptism is as shown in my post just before this one.

kardiaoangelous · May 17, 2013

notuptome said:

Water cannot save. If it could Christ would not have died on the cross. Blood must be shed to atone for sin. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that gives us life to moment we ask Christ to save us from our sins. The first ten verses of Ephesians lays a firm foundation for those who have not quite grasped this doctrine.
Water baptism is not viewed in the same context today by Gentiles as it was by the early church Jewish believers to whom the word was given.
Christ made atonement for our sins by shedding His blood. His blood is wholly sufficient to save us. Nothing can be added to the finished work of Christ. To receive the grace of God one must believe. Salvation is instantaneous and not a process. Our walk with Christ after salvation is a process.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

I accept that explanation in the sense that we are sealed to salvation by the Holy Spirit and that is as good as done. No man can take that salvation away from us once it has been sealed to us.

Cobus · May 17, 2013

zone said:

Zonie what water is this.... This is the Water Jesusassociate with the SPIRIT AND THE WATER... THAT LEADS UNTO EVERLASTING LIFE....
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of hisbelly shall flow rivers of living water.
And this.... But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shallgive him shall never thirst;but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springingup into everlasting life.
Do not get confused with the H₂O.... Just as we would thirstagain after drinking H₂O (water, water baptism) we would NOT THIRST AGAIN AFTERDRINKING HIS LIVING WATER... (WORD, SPIRIT BAPTISM).

Cobus · May 17, 2013

My uncle put it so good one day... He says there is a lot of CROCODILES out there that wants to pull you to the water,,, WELL SAID DOLF! ADOLF!!!

homwardbound · May 17, 2013

jody50 said:

So tell me does works produce Faith? Or does Faith in God produce God works. For no flesh in his sigth shall ever please him. And he condemned all sin to flesh
[h=3]Romans 8:1-3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So only being born again of the Spirit of God by the resurrection of Christ back at the cross can one truly serve God
John 4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him

And we are born again by belief in:
[h=3]Romans 6:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The Babtism is not water here it is the Holy Ghost with Fire to burn out our flesh ways of selfishness
For after John babtized Jesus, Johnb job that John was born forto do was done and he said the he must decrease after he Babtized Christ

[h=3]John 3:29-31[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]29 [/SUP]He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

This Baptism of the Holy Ghost came at Pentecost and was told about coming seperating the diffearance of John's Babtism and Christ's
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

John's Baptism was one of repentance, and Christ's is one fro new life in the Spirit of God prooven by the resurrection of Christ
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

We are at the cross the whole world stands with the availabilty to recieve God's forgiveness provided by his Son Jesus Christ once for all
Hebrews 10:10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Believe and recieve too simple but man as shown through out the Old and New Testament just has to have something to do with this amazing Salvation and not completely beleive God took care of it all for us through his Son
Even where Peter quoted abouyt water Baptism said to do this is not the removal of sin, truly was saying it is the wanting of the removal of sin, but water can't do this it is only a good conscience before God.
Only being Born of God through the resurrection can this be done by God through you if you beleive God it will come to pass, but and everytime you think pridefully or say boastfully you,I and allothers willget a messdenger of Satan as Paul did in stating this in 2 Cor:7- onward and how he then gloried in his iniquities. I bet he didn't get too proud or boastful nuch after this realization of his continual need for God, which is way past water Baptism that does not remove the filth of the flesh as only the Holy Ghost does this
Hope this helps my Sister in Christ

homwardbound · May 17, 2013

krow said:

It in the way of the world, works to get one to work in the eneregy of thier own flesh and from the enemy in hope to decieve and not see that God does not want our works, rather our belief in him to do his type of works of Love in and through the ones that do belive
True Faith in God produces God works through that person as it did Abraham, Noah, Issaac, Joseph, Saul who became Paul and many others who lived by Faith not works of themselves, yet had works, but these were God's works in and through them period

homwardbound · May 17, 2013

krow said:

Faith is more important. "For it is by grace you have been saved, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works so that no man may boast." Baptism along with good works are just the outward expression of the inward change, but they are not what saves us. Faith believing with with -ing, the present tense, in the sacrifice of Christ is the only thing that redeems us. Logically if one is believing in that one lives different than the world.

Even in the Old Testament faith was more important: And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

What does being baptized really have to do with if you live in faith later on or not? Nothing.

Oh and there was no water Baptism in Abraham's time and God promised Abraham through Faith HMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

homwardbound · May 17, 2013

Cobus said:

This ONE baptism in Eph 4 is BAPTISM OF/IN/WITH GOD!
Baptism that saves is: To be baptized by God into ONE BODY... HIS!
Baptism that saves is: You died and you need a NEW LIFE... HIS!
Baptism that saves is: You are baptized in THE NAME (ONE NAME) OF: JESUSCHRIST / FATHER GOD / AND HOLY GHOST.
Baptism that saves is: You die IN CHRIST, and will be made alive IN CHRIST BY CHRIST!
Baptism taht saves is: You are BAPTIZED IN WATER THAT WILL FLOW FORM YOUR BOWELS, WATER BY THE WORD, THE TRUTH!
Baptsin that saves is: YOU DIED IN CHRSIT AND THE MOMENT GOD GIVES YOU THE NEW MAN, CHRSIT JESUS IN YOU, YOU SRE QUICKENED BY THAT SPIRIT TO LIVE A HOLY AND PERFECT LIFE HERE ON EARTH.

God calls that moment various things... He calls it... Batism in Spirit, He calls ir Rebirth, Born of God, He calls it filled with the Holy Spirit. He calls it holy men of God. He calls it a vessel of honour, he calls it the perfect gift from above. He calls it the Gift of the Holy Spirit. He calld it the Seed remainith in them. Etc.Etc.

One thing is for sure, Every person that did repent, and were baptized with this baptism of God, are ONE WITH GOD... They are all made PERFECTLY one because of the COMPLETE POWER OF GOD to make them one, PERFECTLY ONE with eachother and with HIM.... The whole Bible is about this ONE PERFECT BODY, that REACHES FROM THE EARTH RIGHT INTO GOD! One perfect holy body, as ONLY GOD CAN DO IT.... I mean HE IS GOD and HE WANTS IT THAT WAY, SO I GUESS HE WILL DO IT HIS WAY.

What and awesome God this Christ Jesus is.

Father, Jesus asked you to make them perfectly one, Lord may I be one of these you do this with, PLEASE! Amen! John 17.

And Cobus Iraythis with you that God willshow you the way,the truth and the life found in the death, burialand resurrection of Christ and you see it as all God and none of us, thus being complete in him as youare crying out for
Love you man

homwardbound · May 17, 2013

Cobus said:

Yes so let us by the cross die with Christ at the cross and be resurrected with Christ at the resurrection
[h=3]Romans 6:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

and the Baptism that Paul speaks of is not water, it Holy Spirit baptism with fire to kill flesh carnality
So therefore

[h=3]Romans 6:11[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

homwardbound · May 17, 2013

kardiaoangelous said:

Your reasoning shows true spiritual thinking. My spirit appreciates the connections your spirit has shown there. Clearly you are hearing God's spirit.

This was a crucial verse to appreciate, John 2:6 "And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece."

I see what compares to what you said in that shortly thereafter John spoke of Jesus' zeal toward the cleansing of God's temple and then of, John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body."

Jesus body' is that vessel of the water turned into wine and that temple for the curing of the nations. And we know that body to be his bride or church.

Then as we proceed on into chapter 3 of John we find, John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Thus this set the theme for being born of baptism by the Holy Spirit. And it is interesting to follow it from there.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I see Iron sharpening Iron here

homwardbound · May 17, 2013

zone said:

So Zone please let me get this straight you only beleive in water Baptism? Thanks for your answer in this in advance just curious

homwardbound · May 17, 2013

notuptome said:

And the water turne to wine and in the Old the nikle turned to blood we are not water Babtized today we are blood Babtized just a revelation that came to mind as I read all the posts WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to me whether anyone else understands or not, hoping so though!

starfield · May 17, 2013

Ciscokid said:

So one is saved by getting dunked in water?

What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
Water baptism is done for a good conscience, Apostle Peter said.

Not a full instruction huh? So what is the full instruction?

It is important to be baptised in obedience to Christ, but it's not what saves you. It is pretty clear in that passage that one is saved by God's grace through faith, not man's work.

1. When the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, they replied "believe in the Lord Jesus". If water baptism was a requirement for salvation then they would have said so.
2. Cornelius' salvation took place before his water baptism. He was saved, baptised in the Holy Spirit, then water baptised.
3. The gospel of salvation is repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus. For with the heart man believes to righteousness and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
4. The Apostles always baptised people that were saved. They didn't baptise people to be saved.
5. Baptism is an ordinance like the Lord's supper instituted by Christ that every believer should do however it isn't what saves.

Water baptism is a work hence it does not save. Christ's blood does.
Leviticus 17:11 says it is the blood that makes atonement for souls. Similarly, as per Heb 9:12, Christ entered the Holy place once to obtained eternal redemption for us by His BLOOD. Christ's blood is sufficient and efficient to save and the repentant sinner receives salvation by what He has done, not what they do to please Him.

Baptismal regeneration is unscriptural.
What about death bed salvation? Are they not saved? Are they heading to Hell because they didn’t have the opportunity to be baptised?
Perhaps that's why the Roman Catholics, Mormons, and other cult groups baptise the dead to help them get to Heaven?

notuptome · May 17, 2013

homwardbound said:

I'm quite certain some understand although there is a disagreement over what they understand. Water is not grace. Water is not faith. Water is not blood. Water is water. The blood of Christ is sprinkled on the altar in heaven and there it covers our sins. John 20:17 Heb 9:11-12
The faith required to receive the grace of God is received by hearing the word of God. Rom 10:17 The Holy Spirit supplies the light necessary for us to respond to the word and receive Gods grace. John 3:19-21 No man comes except the Father draw him. Those who come Christ will in no wise cast out.
If an unsaved man goes into the water an unsaved man will come back out of the water. The only thing that changes is that he gets wet and that too will soon pass. Acts 8:35-40

For the cause of Christ
Roger

livingepistle · May 17, 2013

<Opening thread>
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1Peter 3:21

My comments are to prove through scripture that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and by Water is essential:
Case point, the Apostle Peter gave emphasis to the importance of “Water Baptism” when he used the Biblical account of Noah:

1 Peter 3:19-22
19] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22] Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Note that Peter’s emphasis in this epistle to the intended audience was spiritually educated concerning the importance of the Holy Spirit; therefore, Peter is giving greater emphasis to “Water Baptism” as being “equally” essential to being saved.

Now consider what Paul had to say concerning “Water Baptism” as being essential for believers:

Paul in Ephesus
The following scriptures is an example of Water Baptized believers under “John’s Baptism” that had not received the “Holy Ghost/Spirit”; even the former “baptism” was replaced with the New Covenant baptism that Jesus made by the shedding of his blood.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Acts 19:2 He said to them, Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? And they said to him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:3 And he said to them, To what then were you baptized? And they said, To John's baptism.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John truly baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.

If there were any skeptics, this Church Elder was certain to record the events as separate in occurrence (receiving the Holy Ghost) and (re-Baptized in Water) performance; careful to emphasize that both are essential.

The scriptures give a clear mental picture of what is required when considering the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” and that of the “Baptism in Water”. The Holy Spirit received as a gift from God, while the Baptism by Water is an act of obedience through faith. The works of that faith is submitting (obedience) to being ‘Water Baptized” (physically immersed) in the name of Jesus.
This is my understanding according to scriptures; (KJV).

Is baptism Essential for salvation?

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