Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[Christabel]

I am enjoying this thread. For Christians to be a light unto the world, we must be united concerning our doctrinal beliefs.

For those that are opposed to water baptism being essential

Will someone that does not believe water baptism is essential to receiving salvation, please give a Biblical definition of what salvation is...provide chapter and verse.

I would like to assist in speeding the process...here are some scriptures that may help to get you started.:

Acts 4:12
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
Acts 13:47
47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'"

Romans 1:16
16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Philippians 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Titus 2:11
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

Hebrews 9:27-28
27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

1 Peter 1:3-9
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade-kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that your faith-of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire-may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Revelation 19:1
1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,

Please include where it is written that we are "baptized" in the Spirit.

I think the GRAND FINALE question is; if you have accepted Christ, why in all this world would you not want to get baptized? It is a symbol to the world that you have died with Christ and rose along with Him.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I agree that we should be baptised, However, I do not agree that it is a requirement for salvation. I will reference John 3:16 again. No Mention of baptism. Only believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and the same shall be saved. We should not add requirements that God does not give.

Insofar as the extras beyond that:

Acts 15:28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

 

[jinx]

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


it's a commandment. not an option. He didn't say repent first and if you feel like it later you can get wet.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I see that it is time to just let the crowd roar and speak only to those who show appreciation.

I don't mean putting them on ignore but simply not replying to their resentful remarks.

God loves them and I love them and many others love them, enough to ignore their disparaging remarks which they speak out of blindness.

 

[Kerry]

Yes, my brother, baptised or immersed in Christ not water. Water baptism is an outward show of what has already happened spiritually, a sinner can be baptised and it means nothing anyone can be dunked or sprinkled by a preacher, true salvation is from the heart.

 

[Kerry]

I couldn't reply with quote. So, this is from 1 Still.

Obviously exceptions are made if you're stuck on a cross, or stuck on a bed and can't get to water.

These exception to the rule for some, should not become the rule for all.

Now, you are saying that God is not just. He has rules for some and rules for others. God is the same and He changes not. Searching the hearts of man.

 

[livingepistle]

dang hes still over my head Mo!

Absolutely disgusting. What will they think of next.

 

[Kerry]

So what do you think. A person comes to your church and accepts Jesus as the lord of their life. You gonna tell them they can't be properly saved until we have a baptism service or are you gonna dunk em in water immediately.

 

[Kerry]

And Jesus say's, no I can't save him cause his head ain't wet. Better dunk him quick. Come on, what kite are you flying.

 

[livingepistle]

There is a certain brother with us a goodly part of the time for whose sake I have been holding back fully addressing that subject for now. I believe that he is making good progress but I also have reason to believe that if I approach that too abruptly he might recoil in fear and cease to grow in small steps. The fact is that particular brother is the one around whom I have set my pace as I see the depth of his love so greatly.

But you can look in the things I speak concerning how I see us as acquiring the spirit for now. It is there. It is just not being spoken loudly as of yet.

I do understand and respect your concerns.

 

[Kerry]

Can you name one OT saint that was baptised. Maybe the rules were different for them or was it faith?

 

[livingepistle]

I think the GRAND FINALE question is; if you have accepted Christ, why in all this world would you not want to get baptized? It is a symbol to the world that you have died with Christ and rose along with Him.

Yes I must agree.

This is where I am confused with these responses. It has become a spiritual phenomenon for me. This is an all-important subject because many of the innocent observers want an honest answer. “What is salvation?” let them answer it.
I can't find in scripture where I need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. If it is written, I am obeying and why should I or anyone that loves the Lord fight or resist.

"You must be" is a commandment. When a secular judge makes a ruling and says "You must pay a fine" does any smart person say, will you take a "verbal check your honor? My word is all you need". LOL "Must” pay is a commandment to action—write that check or money order; cash will work—just pay the clerk and if you do not guess what buddy, call the Bailiff...jail time.

Well Sis, keep your head down and your powder dry, it is time for the howitzers. lol

 

[livingepistle]

Can you name one OT saint that was baptised. Maybe the rules were different for them or was it faith?

Ah, "how much do you understand about the Levitical Priesthood?" because that is where you find the answer. In the OT, salvation from G-d was reserved for the Jews. The entire nation was baptized when they passed through the Red Sea; the NT has a wonderful explanation of this phenomenon,1 Corinthians 10:2. All other men and women/nations that wanted salvation had to become subject to the nation of Israel and worship their G-d. Baptism was performed by the priests as individuals and by the High Priest; details intentionally omitted for this response.

I remain open for dialogue should you choose to do so.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Ah, "how much do you understand about the Levitical Priesthood?" because that is where you find the answer. In the OT, salvation from G-d was reserved for the Jews. The entire nation was baptized when they passed through the Red Sea; the NT has a wonderful explanation of this phenomenon,1 Corinthians 10:2. All other men and women/nations that wanted salvation had to become subject to the nation of Israel and worship their G-d. Baptism was performed by the priests as individuals and by the High Priest; details intentionally omitted for this response.

I remain open for dialogue should you choose to do so.

I seem to be having difficulty sleeping tonight so I just popped in. Yes, that is right. And there is something that foreshadowed but not for every individual as so many think. I have been laboring in myself as to how to begin to explain this also for some time now.

1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

There is his seed, and then there are the nations of the earth which procure blessing to themselves by means of his seed.

His seed = the true sons of God with Christ as that primary seed which made it all possible.

The nations of the earth who procure blessings to themselves by means of those seed = the children of Christ and of his temple brethren.

Christ's brethren who are seeds as is Christ = The true church or Temple of God the firstfruits out of all the nations.

His children = other sheep as the remainder of the harvest

His children just occupy the courtyard to the temple, which since the wall of separation was torn down holds both non-anointed Jews and non-anointed gentiles.

Boy is that one going to catch flack.

 

[starfield]

Ah, "how much do you understand about the Levitical Priesthood?" because that is where you find the answer. In the OT, salvation from G-d was reserved for the Jews. The entire nation was baptized when they passed through the Red Sea; the NT has a wonderful explanation of this phenomenon,1 Corinthians 10:2. All other men and women/nations that wanted salvation had to become subject to the nation of Israel and worship their G-d. Baptism was performed by the priests as individuals and by the High Priest; details intentionally omitted for this response.

I remain open for dialogue should you choose to do so.

What about Enoch? He was not immersed in water yet was accepted by God. There are numerous examples of people who were saved before getting baptised which prove that the ordinance is not essential for forgiveness of sins. The Apostles on several occasions omitted baptism from their messages but never omitted "faith". In fact in 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul separated baptism from the gospel in other words his primary focus was not to baptise people but to preach the gospel; this suggests that baptism is not the gospel itself for it isn't efficient for salvation. Also, the Israelites weren't baptised into Moses to be God's chosen nation. They were already His covenant nation before they crossed the Red Sea. Likewise with the NT baptism, the one getting water baptised in obedience to Christ is already part of God's family (saved).

 

[zone]

But you are confusing that at 1 Peter 3:21 to be water baptism when it is not. That idea does not match the parallel with Noah's Ark and that flood.

Please listen as I explain how that parallel works:

Noah and seven others were transported in the Ark as risen above by water of a world which was perishing.

Parallel: Isaiah 57:20 "But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt."

Jesus arranged things to demonstrate how by faith in him we can rise to walk safely on the surface of even turbulent water, again to those who have spiritual discernment a picture of rising above this perishing world to safety through faith in Christ:

Matthew 14:22 "And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away.
23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.
24 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.
25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.
26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

Jesus' body compares to that Ark Noah built. When we become a part of the body of Christ (his church) it is as being inside that Ark that Noah built being carried over the top of the turbulent waters of wicked mankind. And we can only enter Christ's body (his true church) through an active faith which fears not to step out and walk as does Christ, even as Jesus used Peter there at Matthew 14 to demonstrate, making it no surprise why peter would be the one to write as he did at 1 Peter 3:21.

I will stop there for a time so you can ponder that tid-bit.

why stop there?
please proceed to the passages that expound on how "we can only enter Christ's body (his true church) through an active faith which fears not to step out and walk as does Christ"

what's the very first thing Peter said in his sermon - on the day of Pentecost?

and what did they do after they heard him speak of many more things...what did they do that very day (AFTER the Spirit had been poured out?) - they were baptized. they said, brothers - WHAT SHALL WE DO?

what did he say? if the baptism he meant was NOT water - why do you now say water baptism IS TO BE PERFORMED.



so please don't stop there.

....

you said baptism was proper.
please, show where the New Testament says baptism with water is proper and to be performed; but is NOT the baptism commanded by Jesus in the great commission.

 

[zone]

I need no chance but the spirit on the word upon which i feed. It is that spirit which fills me.

I am sorry that you don't see but then that is as it will be for some.

It is there spoken for you if you should at anytime soften your heart and allow yourself to begin to understand spiritual things.

And that is because God loves you and so do I.

Be in peace if you are satisfied.

oh.....purleeze.
you were baptized in WATER - H20.

why were you?
why did you do it?

just make it clear - how you reached the conclusion you did - that you should go to the river and be baptized.

were you baptized in the Name of the Father, the Name of the Son and the Name of the Holy Spirit/ in Jesus' Name?

WHY? why did you submit to H20 baptism? in ignorance until the allegorical significance hit home?

then why do you STILL say H20 is proper and should be done.

PICK ONE. no two answers - unless i can see why you got wet.

 

[zone]

this is pretty important.

i really hope for a straight up answer from the WATER isn't the Baptism folks

forget about does water save - nobody says waters saves.

i actually have more respect for people who scoff at water baptism AND DON'T SUBMIT to it than those who scoff or take lightly or allegorize it away and DO GET WET.

 

[homwardbound]

I only know of 2 Cor.5:21, that when we look for the inflection which is found in the last one or two letters of each word, there is no possible way to read it, "we righteousness in him."

I must let the grammar do the interpreting for me rather than imposing my own interpretation over it. I don't think you will find any legitimate Greek scholar who would contradict what I have told you. It is just too plain in that verse that it must be read just as I said.

Not exactly following you. I am saying by Christ and through trusting the finished work of Christ seeking to understand truth to be set free in christ to God the Father, we have the righteousness of God of Christ. Now this is not ours it is God's and we are made partakers of this God getting all the glory
Are we saying the same, i know it is sometimes not easy tosay the same froma differant angle as you have so well said before.

 

[homwardbound]

My dear CC brother, it is you that assume that it is Spirit. If you can provide me with a Bible scripture that states that we are baptized in the "Spirit" please do so and your observations will be plausible.

Brotherly love continues

John 3:30He must increase, but I must decrease
Matthew 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Luke 3:16John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Acts 1:5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

We today are after the resurrection of Christ and the Babtism of the Holy Ghost came on the day of Pentecost
this today is what is in effect, and we are not born again until we are babtized with the Holy Ghost
John 3 very clear on this about being born of the Spirit of God and Christ was very clear on sending the Holy Ghost in John 16
Before the cross all Law had to be fulfilled by Christ and that is why Christ said to John that John needed for no0w to babtize him
And then John does this announcesthat the Messiah has arrived and says that he must decrease and Christ must increase, that John only babtizes with water but Christ with the Holy Ghost and with fire
Only God my brother caqn revealthis truth to you
Romans is a doctrinal account by Paul, and is a born again account in romans 6 by the Spirit of God
Tell me today how is God worshipped? what is the only way God can be worshipped?