Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[jinx]

I answered you questions. We are not saved until we are with HIM in heaven. we are born again here on this earth and we walk daily with HIM as HE molds us and perfects us. When we do fail, and we do cause we are all human, HE is faithful to forgive us our sins when we repent of those offences.

When I was little, I would hear my parents rules and do my best to follow them. Those rules were put there for my safety.
BUT I was a kid and broke the rules now and then and because of this I would have to apologize to my parents for it.

The same goes for our GOD. We are HIS children and all of us sin, and any sin, not just certain ones, separate us from a good standing with GOD, but because of HIS mercy we can come boldly before the throne of grace and seek repentance and be in good standing with HIM once again.

We are fooling only ourselves if we think a prayer from long ago covers all of our future sins. That only opens a door for some to believe they can live like the devil now cause they repented so long ago when they was totally sincere when saying that "sinners prayer".

We are only human, we are not glorified yet. We still fight with in ourselves a spiritual war, and we fight it with the whole armor of GOD. Things that we are told to put on daily.

 

[homwardbound]

John must decrease because he was the one that prophesied about the one crying in the wilderness, paving the way for the LORD. When he saw JESUS coming to be baptized he even asked JESUS to baptize him instead because John was not even worthy enough to tie the laces of JESUS shoes let alone baptize him, but JESUS told him that this is the way it should be. Then when John was at Aenon his own disciples came to him and told him that the man John identified as the Messiah was also baptizing people and more people were going to that man instead of John. (John 3: 22-36) He told his own disciples that he was happy JESUS was doing good, and that JESUS was the messiah and they should follow HIM instead of John because he was not the "bride-groom" but that JESUS was the "bridegroom". He said that he himself (John) was just the best man. He also said that anyone who does not obey the Son of GOD will not experience heaven.

So when he was talking about decreasing himself he wasn't talking about decreasing his own water baptism mode. NO. Johns baptism was a baptism unto repentance, we don't decrease our repentance. He was talking about decreasing his own ministry because he was only the one paving the way, not the messiah himself.

John wasn't talking about water baptism, he was talking about his ministry in general. Even JESUS's own disciples were baptising

Jesus himself nbever did any water Babtizing here Soister but you attributed that Christ himself water Babtized not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bad interpretation Christ did not Babtise with water It is clear from John waht Christ Babtises with
Matthew 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

1. John 1:26
   John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
   John 1:25-27 (in Context) John 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. John 1:33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
   
   John has been nted and witness to say that Christ does not Baptize with water period Sister
   So after the cross truthfully what Baptism are we under? If we are not under the Holy Ghost baptism form Christ then he lied in John 16, and Pentecost never came and in Eph stating only one Lord, noe Faith and one Baptism is a lie then. The whole word does not fit cohesively then
   So anyway thank you for the try to refute John ans Holy Ghost Babtism. If we are not born agaiin by the Spirit of God then we are none of God's because God can only be
   John 4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
   John 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
   John 14:17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
   John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
   
   THis is Holy Ghost Baptism, differant from water Baptism. Anyone can do water baptism of repentance but it does not bring life new life in the Spirit of God. God does by and through the resurrection of his Son Jesus Christ
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[Ephraim]

I answered you questions. We are not saved until we are with HIM in heaven. we are born again here on this earth and we walk daily with HIM as HE molds us and perfects us. When we do fail, and we do cause we are all human, HE is faithful to forgive us our sins when we repent of those offences.

When I was little, I would hear my parents rules and do my best to follow them. Those rules were put there for my safety.
BUT I was a kid and broke the rules now and then and because of this I would have to apologize to my parents for it.

The same goes for our GOD. We are HIS children and all of us sin, and any sin, not just certain ones, separate us from a good standing with GOD, but because of HIS mercy we can come boldly before the throne of grace and seek repentance and be in good standing with HIM once again.

We are fooling only ourselves if we think a prayer from long ago covers all of our future sins. That only opens a door for some to believe they can live like the devil now cause they repented so long ago when they was totally sincere when saying that "sinners prayer".

We are only human, we are not glorified yet. We still fight with in ourselves a spiritual war, and we fight it with the whole armor of GOD. Things that we are told to put on daily.

I agree with most of that. Except that I think God already knows we are prone to break the rules, he put us in that place.

'For God has accursed all in disobedience that he may have mercy on all'.

So I don't really think the apology is merited because we will only do it again (in all likelihood). I think we ALL sin, but the point is not to try to be perfect, because that's impossible when we are accursed in human nature, rather it's to try to be moral and have the kind of spirit that God wants from us; a compassionate, loving spirit that's as gentle on itself as it is on others. To me that's the best we can do and anything else is an expectation on ourselves that we will just become bitter about because of never being able to achieve it.

 

[livingepistle]

Once again, if you believe water baptism is essential for salvation you are preaching a false Gospel.

I really do not believe you are an honest person. You are manipulative. Now you just went too far. You are enhancing my messages to read the way you want. No more conversations with you. You really need a true Born Again Experience. May you be rewarded according to your works.

No hard feelings, I just do not wish to converse with you any longer. And by the way you never answered the two questions: Was David in the Temple eating show bread? Was Moses and the Hebrew Baptized by Spirit and Water? I am adding a third, "Was there work performed by G-d and Moses on the days of the crossing?" I kept my promise, no conversation until you repent and be true.

 

[homwardbound]

I answered you questions. We are not saved until we are with HIM in heaven. we are born again here on this earth and we walk daily with HIM as HE molds us and perfects us. When we do fail, and we do cause we are all human, HE is faithful to forgive us our sins when we repent of those offences.

When I was little, I would hear my parents rules and do my best to follow them. Those rules were put there for my safety.
BUT I was a kid and broke the rules now and then and because of this I would have to apologize to my parents for it.

The same goes for our GOD. We are HIS children and all of us sin, and any sin, not just certain ones, separate us from a good standing with GOD, but because of HIS mercy we can come boldly before the throne of grace and seek repentance and be in good standing with HIM once again.

We are fooling only ourselves if we think a prayer from long ago covers all of our future sins. That only opens a door for some to believe they can live like the devil now cause they repented so long ago when they was totally sincere when saying that "sinners prayer".

We are only human, we are not glorified yet. We still fight with in ourselves a spiritual war, and we fight it with the whole armor of GOD. Things that we are told to put on daily.

But waht if you were by beleif dead to flesh? Waht then would you be controlled by the Holy Ghost then
[h=3]Romans 8:1-4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Do you not see that water Babtism is of the flesh and that the Spirit Baptism is of God?

 

[jinx]

Joh 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

 

[homwardbound]

oh my goodness!!!! your making it out as if I am just drinking a six pack with a stogie in one hand, a needle up my arm and putting a hit out on someone who owes me money ..... like i do this on purpose or something.

REALLY!!! IS THAT REALLY HOW YOU THINK I WORK????

cause if it is, then no wonder you dont get anything I am saying.

And no I do feel boastful and proud when I don't sin.... goodnight homie what ya smoking there bud?????

I feel blessed because I have the SPIRIT of GOD giving me strength to overcome temptation.

So sorry that you do not see what is beiing said and takiing offense I said nothing to you in any accusation I only said that walkiing by flesh in and of self only creates mor flesh actions and reaction being caught up in sin
Re-read Galatians 6:8 it is clearly stated waht keeps one in sinful behavior
And I know Sister you wish not to sin and know that you have an advocate Jesus Christ. Yet you continue to refute ans continue to go to God for more forgiveness, not understanding why you keep sining that same sin you are exhausted about and wanting it to leave. It will not as long as you trying to stop it, I know been there done that and am only telling you this out of Love

"The difficulties in life are caused by disharmony in the individual, not in My Kingdom, only something unconquered in My children."

"Learn of Me. Kill the self within. Every blow to self is used to shape the real, eternal, imperishable you. Be candid and rigorous with yourselves. Did self prompt that? and if it did, oust it at all costs."
Love you deeper than you see at this time, knowing that God will reveal these truths to you.

 

[jinx]

Joh_4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Joh_4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)


I would think that if JESUS didn't want people to be baptized in water, HE would have stopped HIS own disciples.

but HE didn't did HE.

 

[homwardbound]

Joh 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1-3

King James Version (KJV)

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
[SUP]2[/SUP](Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.

Oh and this was before the cross and all changed after the cross where the Holy Ghost Baptism took place on the day of Pentecost

 

[jinx]

even after Pentecost homie, they still baptized with water.

I know what your going to say after I post this. that's ok. please dont post it again.

but let me tell ya that your belief is wrong. once saved always saved is wrong. There is no such thing.
Turn from this evil belief system. a prayer you said 50 some years ago will not cut it today. you have to die daily... DAILY.

 

[homwardbound]

Joh_4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Joh_4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)


I would think that if JESUS didn't want people to be baptized in water, HE would have stopped HIS own disciples.

but HE didn't did HE.

This was before the cross Sister there is a big differance before under Law and after freed from Law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Christ took our place and after we believe we go to christ and die with Christ then we are resurrected like Christ was by the Father of Christ in the same like manner, being born again of the Spirit of Christ, as he said in John 3 to Nicodemus we are to born again of the Spirit of Gode and it is a free gift
Romans 5:15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[livingepistle]

What have you said differant dry ground they past over and were safe, never got wet, I said this and posted it and it says what I ahve said, do not uderstand where I posted anything differant

No, Hom, thought you were aware of the addition to the translation of [ground]. Ground is not in the original translation. Simply asking if you had any additional information on that addition to the KJV. Forgive me for not being clear on my intent.

The differences here is that salvation is not defined and "Yes" I do understand what the Thread is asking but it is not that simple because the Church is divided along these lines of understanding. Salvation has different aspects. I have discovered since participating in this forum that many have a different understanding of what "salvation" is. This is an excellent Thread because it makes sincere Christians think about what it is they understand concerning salvation.

I pose a question to you; sincerely and without controversy, what is your definition of salvation and what are the scriptures that support your definition? I know what Jinx, Zone, and others believe, if you can give me your definition it will be appreciated.

 

[livingepistle]

I answered you questions. We are not saved until we are with HIM in heaven. we are born again here on this earth and we walk daily with HIM as HE molds us and perfects us. When we do fail, and we do cause we are all human, HE is faithful to forgive us our sins when we repent of those offences.

When I was little, I would hear my parents rules and do my best to follow them. Those rules were put there for my safety.
BUT I was a kid and broke the rules now and then and because of this I would have to apologize to my parents for it.

The same goes for our GOD. We are HIS children and all of us sin, and any sin, not just certain ones, separate us from a good standing with GOD, but because of HIS mercy we can come boldly before the throne of grace and seek repentance and be in good standing with HIM once again.

We are fooling only ourselves if we think a prayer from long ago covers all of our future sins. That only opens a door for some to believe they can live like the devil now cause they repented so long ago when they was totally sincere when saying that "sinners prayer".

We are only human, we are not glorified yet. We still fight with in ourselves a spiritual war, and we fight it with the whole armor of GOD. Things that we are told to put on daily.

I look for that blessed hope of redemption also. Maranatha!

 

[homwardbound]

even after Pentecost homie, they still baptized with water.

I know what your going to say after I post this. that's ok. please dont post it again.

but let me tell ya that your belief is wrong. once saved always saved is wrong. There is no such thing.
Turn from this evil belief system. a prayer you said 50 some years ago will not cut it today. you have to die daily... DAILY.

I do die daily that is the only way is to be daily in the Spirit and not of any self works, by Faith in the living God I am alive forever more Sister
God will and has never left me. No one can snatch me out of God's hand not even me after I have seen the whole truth of being 100% dependant on God as Christ so well showed everyone to be as such
Thank you for condeming me, and I am glad you or I am not God.
I have complete trust in the followiing scripture for me and you and anyone else God is able, flesh is not and never will be
[h=3]Romans 14[/h]King James Version (KJV)

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

God has recieved you Sister and has recieved me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love you

 

[jinx]

well I don't kill my human body daily either homie, that would make me a zombie. and no one can snatch you from GOD but yourself. you yourself can choose not to follow GOD and be out of HIS good graces.

 

[homwardbound]

No, Hom, thought you were aware of the addition to the translation of [ground]. Ground is not in the original translation. Simply asking if you had any additional information on that addition to the KJV. Forgive me for not being clear on my intent.

The differences here is that salvation is not defined and "Yes" I do understand what the Thread is asking but it is not that simple because the Church is divided along these lines of understanding. Salvation has different aspects. I have discovered since participating in this forum that many have a different understanding of what "salvation" is. This is an excellent Thread because it makes sincere Christians think about what it is they understand concerning salvation.

I pose a question to you; sincerely and without controversy, what is your definition of salvation and what are the scriptures that support your definition? I know what Jinx, Zone, and others believe, if you can give me your definition it will be appreciated.

By belief
1 Corinthians 1:21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Corinthians 3:5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
Galatians 2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

There are many a scripture tha point to Faith, Belief in god and what God has done not man.
But man is just so desiring to do what man wants to do and make a muck out of things taking away the power of God.
Most of the people today are taught a half-sham Gospel Christ died for you, now go out and work!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ludicrous the full Gospel is the including of the resurrection
Just read 1 Cor 15. Very clear we are to die to self so we can be alive today here and now by the resurrection back at the cross. And all this is by beleif in God that he has done it all for anyone that beleives
Romans 3:22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 4:3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[homwardbound]

well I don't kill my human body daily either homie, that would make me a zombie. and no one can snatch you from GOD but yourself. you yourself can choose not to follow GOD and be out of HIS good graces.

Since you can Sister that is what you think and belief which keeps you in a work program to be saved, thinking you are enduring to the end
I am in God and God is in me, forever and always, because my God is Faithful and nota tyrant as you have just said, by trying to be in his good graces, that my Sister is a works program, and I am happy for you, Iahve been there and have left that and come unto the Faith and riches that are only found in Christ via the whole cross the death, and resurrection where one recieves new life and are so elated over what God ahs already done for them praising and thanking God so busy with that. that there is no time for sinful behavior. This is what you do not see
Most people beleive that God wants you to quit lying, or stealing, or getting angry right?
I used to beleive this same way, then when I understood that this was a lie from Human flesh
I saw God say to me Howard how well are you doing with that works program of trying to stop sinful behavior?
I said not well and God said you are trying awfully hard, how about a differant way to see this problem
You know if you get busy praising and thanking me for takiing away all sin from you, will oyu have time to sin?
I said well no. And God said no one can of themselves be perfect and never could after the fall of Adam and Eve.
If anyone ever could stop sin 100% in and of themselves then my Son Christ would have not had any need to go to the cross for you die for you, and then come back to life for you. Iwent WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And have not looked back since, I quit my works program, and took on God's 100% truth, too busy thanking and praisiing God for this miraculous salvation that few ever find, and you will one day see what God says, and you will be so overjoyed by this, you won't know waht to say
This righteousness of God is beyond Human understanding.

 

[homwardbound]

well I don't kill my human body daily either homie, that would make me a zombie. and no one can snatch you from GOD but yourself. you yourself can choose not to follow GOD and be out of HIS good graces.

we are by Faith to reckon our selves dead to sin and alive to God Daily Sister
Romans 6:11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 4:4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

 

[jinx]

thinking homie isn't understanding me. That's ok.
homie continues to believe what ever he wants any way.
I can't make him understand what I believe as long as he is so close minded.

 

[jinx]

oh and GOD does want us to stop lying and stealing. it's a commandment.