Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Does God keep His promises? Will God keep His promise, covenant, with Israel? Has God been faithful even when Israel was not? I don't think this is real hard to figure out. Now will it look like Israel expects it to look? Hard to see God working when you are in a deep state of apostasy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Apr 14, 2013
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Do Jews Love Jerusalem than Christians and Muslims ?

[video=youtube;jF0ggohh33c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF0ggohh33c[/video]
 
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jinx

Guest
wow, kardi went in here guns blazing.

I myself think that someone needs to sit in the middle of the thread room and hand out chocolate covered prozacs.

That could solve a lot of problems!!!
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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You are a fool. And God is going to come to you shortly to end the reign of your lies.
Matthew 5:22

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
 
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Widdekind

Guest
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[TD="class: vRefb, bgcolor: #F5F5F5"]Rom 6:23[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispb, bgcolor: #F5F5F5"]For [SUP]1063[/SUP] the wages [SUP]3800[/SUP] of sin [SUP]266[/SUP] [is] death [SUP]2288[/SUP]; but [SUP]1161[/SUP]the gift[SUP]5486[/SUP] of God [SUP]2316[/SUP] [is] eternal [SUP]166[/SUP] life [SUP]2222[/SUP] through[SUP]1722[/SUP] Jesus [SUP]2424[/SUP] Christ [SUP]5547[/SUP] our [SUP]2257[/SUP] Lord [SUP]2962[/SUP].[/TD]
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[TD="class: vRefa"]
Rom 11:29[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispa"]For [SUP]1063[/SUP] the gifts[SUP]5486[/SUP] and [SUP]2532[/SUP] calling [SUP]2821[/SUP] of God [SUP]2316[/SUP][are] without repentance [SUP]278[/SUP].[/TD]
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Let us talk Greek, the original language of the NT. The word you are translating as "gifts" is actually the Greek word charisma, meaning "Grace" or "Favor". And Paul explicitly defines what the "Grace ... of God" (charisma of Theos) are. The previous time that word charisma appears in the NT, Paul defines the "charisma of Theos" as:

"eons of life in Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom 6:23, literalistic translation)

If we remain rooted in NT Greek, then we cannot stray so far, as to re-apply ancient Scriptures, to modern Jews.

If we do not remain rooted in NT Greek, then we can stretch Scripture to say "in translation" anything whatsoever at all.

Prima facie, everybody already is possessed, of prior opinions, now physiologically unchangeable. But, those opinions are unrelated, to the original Greek of the NT. They may be more correct, better, who knows -- "God in heaven" could have given earth over to a "New Dispensation", there could hypothetically be a "New NT" >> "old & defunct NT". Perhaps. However, according to that 2000 year old NT, written in Greek, the "Grace of God is irrevocable"; and that "Grace of God" = Jesus acknowledged as Christ, and accepted as Lord.

I.e. any Jew, at any time, can "come to Christ", acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah, and also accepting Jesus as Lord. That Gracious Offer has been "on the table" for 2000 years, and will (so sayeth Scripture) there remain within reach of any Jew, at any time. Anything else is "Sin", whose "wages are death" (which Prophesy is also, presumably, as firmly fixed as Grace).

For what the NT Greek is worth, no more, no less.




As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(Rom 11:28-29)

This is obviously speaking about natural Israel. Yet we see that the gifts (promise of land amongst other things) are without repentance, or as the ESV translates it 'irrevocable'. Spiritualize and allegorize all you want but Israel belongs to the Jews...if not actualized now, then soon.
 
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Widdekind

Guest
Romans 11:30-31 "For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy."
I.e. "God in heaven" extends Grace to all humans on earth, "even" gentiles, so that through that universal Dispensation of Grace, Jews can "jump back on the bandwagon".

To date, they have not (to my knowledge) done so, and so are still "sinners". (But they seemingly say, that "God in heaven", tells them a different story, which could hypothetically be true -- would you or i know, for absolute sure, if "God in heaven" talked to other people, besides ourselves, with Words different from what we have heard?)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Another of the many reasons we are not to judge to condemnation, thank you.

I.e. "God in heaven" extends Grace to all humans on earth, "even" gentiles, so that through that universal Dispensation of Grace, Jews can "jump back on the bandwagon".

To date, they have not (to my knowledge) done so, and so are still "sinners". (But they seemingly say, that "God in heaven", tells them a different story, which could hypothetically be true -- would you or i know, for absolute sure, if "God in heaven" talked to other people, besides ourselves, with Words different from what we have heard?)
 
Mar 15, 2013
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I.e. "God in heaven" extends Grace to all humans on earth, "even" gentiles, so that through that universal Dispensation of Grace, Jews can "jump back on the bandwagon".

To date, they have not (to my knowledge) done so, and so are still "sinners". (But they seemingly say, that "God in heaven", tells them a different story, which could hypothetically be true -- would you or i know, for absolute sure, if "God in heaven" talked to other people, besides ourselves, with Words different from what we have heard?)
A remnant has and more of a remnant may yet.

That is all which has ever been said to be.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Matthew 5:22

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
That is why you through your anger at what I say, being as I only speak what the word speaks, need to be very careful that you don't mis-judge me by your anger.
 
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Widdekind

Guest
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matt 5:18
Let us look at the original NT Greek, which reads (approximately) "ouranos kai ge para-erchomai" ("sky & land come-forth", literalistic translation).

Those four words, in that exact order, appear next in the Olivet Discourse, after Jesus deserted the temple of Jerusalem (Matt 24:35), "ouranos kai ge para-erchomai" but His Words will never pass away.

And, those words appear in the Apocalyptic Prophesies of 2 Peter 3:10 = Rev 21:1, when heaven & earth pass away, at the Coming of God, on the Great-White-Throne, to Judgement of earth (after the Millennium, and then also after the End Times, when Satan is loosed out of guard, to marshall Gog & Magog vs. the Church).

So, seemingly unambiguously, the Law & Prophets (Tanakh) remain, until Judgement.

i think that implies, that Jewish Christians would have to keep the Law, since the Law was Dispensed to them. But, gentile Christians are "grafted in" (Rom 11) via the Jerusalem Council of 50 AD (Acts 15). God gave the OT to Jews, through whom He gave the NT to gentiles (approximately).

That "two-tiered" structure characterized the early Church, e.g. James, the Bishop of Jerusalem, was famous for his Jewish-style piety, praying daily in the physical temple in Jerusalem, until he was martyred in 62 AD, by the High Priest Ananias, sacrificed about the time that the physical temple was finished, finally, after 80 years of renovations, and presumably then rededicated to the God of the Jews. (For nearly the next 8 years, a Prophet appeared in Jerusalem, named Jesus ben Ananias, who ceaselessly Prophesied the Doom of Jerusalem, with the words "woe, woe to Jerusalem", until the Romans sacked the city, in 70 AD.) James Tabor has been writing, recently, about Bishop James, "brother of the Lord" (Gal 1), and "pillar Apostle" (Gal 2); he may be overstating the role of James, who was head of the Church in Jerusalem, i.e. Bishop there-of, but not necessarily head of the Church world-wide, e.g. Peter was Apostle to the Jewish diaspora world-wide.
 
Oct 6, 2012
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That is why you through your anger at what I say, being as I only speak what the word speaks, need to be very careful that you don't mis-judge me by your anger.
What is there to misjudge? You called Crossnote "A Fool."

Matthew 5:22 clearly warns against such behaviour. If Crossnote is one of the Lord's and has the Spirit dwelling in them then your words leave me feeling extremely uncomfortable at best, as it is actually God you are saying the words to.
Christ made it clear that whatever is done to a Brother, is done to Christ, is done to the one who sent Him.
I would repent of that line you wrote with great urgency...ie without delay.
 
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silverdollar

Guest
A remnant has and more of a remnant may yet.

That is all which has ever been said to be.
you said i'm not part of that elect thing. i had to be on the porch or something. lol
what ever. are you going to tell that other guy youre sorry for threatening him? and saying God told you to?
that's NUTS buddy.
 
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silverdollar

Guest
That is why you through your anger at what I say, being as I only speak what the word speaks, need to be very careful that you don't mis-judge me by your anger.
i dont think you only speak what the word speaks.
your posts are all about how smart you are. but i think you probably live with your Mom. lol!
 
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Widdekind

Guest
Hebrews 13
here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Revelation 11
their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified

Scripture points to something.
Jesus = Temple (John 2)
Crucifixion of 30 AD = destruction of Temple of 586 BC
Jews of Jerusalem = Chaldeans of Babylon
30-70 AD = Babylonian Captivity of 586-539 BC
Titus in 70 AD = Cyrus in 539 BC​

Most of Revelation (Rev 1-18) Prophesies the destruction of Jerusalem ("Babylon"), in 70 AD, by the pagan Roman empire ("Beast of the sea"). Revelation does so, by making the above analogies, e.g. symbolizing 1st century AD Roman armies, as 6th century BC Persian-style cavalry armies (Rev 9).

Please note, that the "Beast" defeats "Babylon", near "Armageddon" (Rev 16); and then is defeated later, by the "Word-warrior" (Rev 19). Most people mis-translate Rev 17 to say that "the Beast goes to its destruction". But, in the original Greek, the Beast hypo-agos to destruction, meaning "leads under" to destruction. The Beast of the sea leads Babylon down under to destruction, and then is later defeated, by the Word-warrior:

Beast of sea = pagan Roman empire of Mediterranean
Word-warrior = Christ = Church
Victory = Christianization of Roman empire --> Byzantine empire
Millennium = Byzantine empire, from Christian Constantinople, the physical manifestation, of the Spiritual New Jerusalem Temple City (described, in its ultimate completed eternal form, in Rev 21-22, with Christians as Jasper bricks in the walls thereof, per Eph 1-2)​
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,422
6,700
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It is written that some pagans have the truth inscribed on their hearts with their own consciences accusing or excusing them as they act. Now, this has always been an admonishment for me never to judge any by appearances, not that we are not taught this elsewhere.

It is not a difficult mind test to know the difference between judging to condemnation, which none of us have the authority to do, and judging for ourselves what is right. Yeshua teaches we are hypocrites if we do not judge for ourselves what is right.

It is a joy, great peace, and a relief (rest) to know we do not have that burden of judgment while in this age. Come the Kingdom, if we are given to judge, then we may do so, but until the thrones are set up, and the crowns are given out, we must always bear in mind the wonderful teaching of Yeshua, "Judge not, and you will not be judged." Blessed be our Teacher and all whom He has appointed over us to instruct in the Way, amen.
 
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silverdollar

Guest
as i get older in my christian life do i have to change the way i talk into all this religious sounding talk lol.
it sounds fake to me. lol
i mean we should be polite whenever possible and speak what the bible speaks but why do some people get a weird new way of talking? that bugs me.
 
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Widdekind

Guest
A remnant has and more of a remnant may yet.

That is all which has ever been said to be.
do you say that by firm knowledge, or by trusting believing faith ? The Jews have a voluminous Talmud, which they seem to say is some sort of supplementary Scripture, recording those utterances, of their Rabbis, which were effectively Divinely Inspired, since Rabbis seemingly say, that they live under perpetual Divine Presence (Shekinah).

According to Christian canon, Jesus Prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem; that Prophesy occurred; so Jesus was vindicated as a true Prophet, to be "feared" (= Deut 18). Logically, the Prophethood of Jesus cannot be denied, from those Scriptures alone. Emotionally, anybody can dislike anything whensoever they whim, or are influenced to whim (e.g. by deluding & deceiving Spirits, sent to select humans on earth, by "God in heaven", 2 Thess 2 / 1 Tim 4).
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,422
6,700
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People will always communicate in the manner most comfortable for them. As long as there is true dialog, what is the problem?

Many times when sharing any part of the Word a person will feel obliged to use language as close to the thoughts and teachings being conveyed as used in the Word so as not to add or take away from the Word of Yahweh, which would be a grave infraction, not of law, but of liberty.

If there is something specific you do not understand, please, by all means ask about it. After all this is a forum.

That said, there really is not a lot to laugh about others' manner of communications, and it can be taken as cruel.


as i get older in my christian life do i have to change the way i talk into all this religious sounding talk lol.
it sounds fake to me. lol
i mean we should be polite whenever possible and speak what the bible speaks but why do some people get a weird new way of talking? that bugs me.
 
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frabjousday78

Guest
as i get older in my christian life do i have to change the way i talk into all this religious sounding talk lol.
it sounds fake to me. lol
i mean we should be polite whenever possible and speak what the bible speaks but why do some people get a weird new way of talking? that bugs me.


Often wondered the same thing lol
 
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Widdekind

Guest
i'm not "Judging", but i don't want to imply, for free automatically without further consideration, that anything said to be from "God in heaven" is (say) necessarily friendly to humans on earth. If someone says that "God in heaven" sends them Voices & Visions, then i do not deny them out-of-human-hand; but nor do i accept anything so attributed, as friend-like

Another of the many reasons we are not to judge to condemnation, thank you.