The Israel of God

[ProphetExcalibur]

God cannot just destroy Satan, if He could have He would have by now. God will destroy him in the fullness of time, this has been prophesied, this creature had access to every place in God's Creation even His Throne room; even after his fall. Even after Jesus was raised from the grave, Satan had the right to follow Jesus back into heaven. It is not absurd to understand who God's great Adversary is. I don't know another creature in the Bible who had a 1/3 of the angels of heaven as their army. So no your wrong, God can only destroy Satan through another covenant process. This battle with Jacob was over the birthright to God's kingdom, that's why this adversary could not over power Jacob, thus the Covenant name Israel! The Israel of God. Anyway, whether I got hit by a bus or not, this is who Jacob wrestled with. Paul said,,,we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with....?

 

[Graybeard]

......... this is who Jacob wrestled with. Paul said,,,we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with....?

LOL...that so funny......really made me laugh.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

God cannot just destroy Satan, if He could have He would have by now. God will destroy him in the fullness of time, this has been prophesied, this creature had access to every place in God's Creation even His Throne room; even after his fall. Even after Jesus was raised from the grave, Satan had the right to follow Jesus back into heaven. It is not absurd to understand who God's great Adversary is. I don't know another creature in the Bible who had a 1/3 of the angels of heaven as their army. So no your wrong, God can only destroy Satan through another covenant process. This battle with Jacob was over the birthright to God's kingdom, that's why this adversary could not over power Jacob, thus the Covenant name Israel! The Israel of God. Anyway, whether I got hit by a bus or not, this is who Jacob wrestled with. Paul said,,,we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with....?

If God were hasty as many of humans with so much less wisdom are, then God would have just destroyed Satan the very moment he became Satan and the devil.

But God is not hasty and God is far wiser than we humans. When issues are raised against his integrity, God does not act in haste, but considers the affect those issues raised have upon his children. So God wisely allows time for his children to learn for themselves whether there was any truth to those accusations, or not. That way his children are enabled to grow to never doubt him.

So, you might object, 'Well God could have just destroyed Satan and Adam and Eve and began all over again.'

But what would that have taught the angels that are also looking on? Would they not also be interested in knowing the truth as to the issues raised? And might the eternal strength of their loyalty to God also be affected by not having opportunity to find out the truth concerning those accusations?

So then should he just destroy all his angels without regard to whether they rebelled against him or not, and start all things both in heaven and on earth from scratch?

Genesis 18:23 "And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

 

[svedbygrace]

cont Israel shall be saved in the Lord !

The children of the flesh , Abraham's seed, these are not the children of God, that is Israel but The children of the promise are counted as the seed, that is Israel..Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed

The children of the promise are counted [reckoned or determined] as the seed, The seed of Israel..Ps 22:23

Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

This seed of Israel is not based upon race, but grace of election, and comprises men and women of all different ethnic groups..

The children of promise are brought into the world and into the fellowship of salvation as Isaac was..

Gal 4:28

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

That is, we are children given to someone , by the promise of the word of God..

Isaac was not consulted or did not believe anything to become a child of promise..neither do true believers in Jesus christ..we [ believers] become so, because we were children of promise, Gods promise..

lets read a little.. Isaac was not born according to the natural course of life or things, for Abraham and Sarah both were up in age, and said to be past the time of life: perhaps denoting they were past the natural ages of having children..she 89 and He 90..But Isaac was promised to the aged couple in spite of natures obstacle, and hence his birth is accomplished by the word and promise and power of God, and not the strength or determination of the human will..and this is where we get the words or ideal of this:

Jn 1:13

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The children of promise, the Israel of God, are born of God..

Paul writes to the Galatians, Now we brethren, as Issac was are children of promise..note: believers in Jesus Christ are so, because they were children of promise..and not because they believed God as one false teacher reiterates constantly.. for Isaac was a child of promise before he believed anything..and so are the rest of the children of promise..

The children of promise are the seed, talked about earlier in the same book of Galatians:

reading Gal 3:16

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

What promise ? Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The promise to Abraham was preached to him by God, that in Him , all nations shall be blessed..that is become as faithful Abraham per Gal 3:9

9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

becoming believers in Jesus Christ as Abraham was see Jn 8:56

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it [by Faith], and was glad.

so then all future believers in Jesus Christ make manifest that they were blessed with faithful Abraham as their Father..in that He was a Father of many nations per Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Notice, a Father of many nations have i made thee, opposed to just being the Father of natural Israel..so we know here God is speaking spiritually, and of all those who would believe on Jesus Christ as being the manifested seed of Abraham per Gal 3:26-29


26For ye are all the children of God [Israel] by faith in Christ Jesus.

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

See, their is no race difference in the Israel of God, the Children of Promise.

God gave Abraham and Jesus Christ [BTW, The promise was first given to Him] faithful children by His promise..

So the Israel that shall be saved in the LORD are the children of promise comprised of individuals from many nations..

 

[svedbygrace]

Israel shall be saved in the LORD


Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

This everlasting salvation is issuing from the blood of the everlasting covenant, the one that was revealed to king david 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.


This is a promised, not offered, not made a offer of, but a promised sure salvation for a very specific people..[Israel]

Israel is another name for the seed of abraham..

Those gentiles, who scripture foresaw that God would Justify through Faith per Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

these [gentiles] are the seed of abraham Gal 3:9

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

And would also be Israel..The Israel that shall be saved in the LORD..

And so, as paul states in Rom 11, with the grafting in of the elect gentiles, so then all Israel shall be saved per Rom 11:25-26

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

All the seed of abraham shall be saved 15

 

[svedbygrace]

Ps 130:7-8


Ps 130:7-8

7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.

8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

This is not speaking about Israel of the flesh, but the Israel of God, Gods chosen people..

You see, there is a Israel that is comprised of all the seed of Abraham, the children of promise, which is made up of both elect jews and gentiles..

Rom 9:6-8

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But this gives us to be reminded that only a chosen people have the right and privilege to hope in the LORD and His redemption..

 

[peterT]

Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

2000 years has past and who is jesus ruling over?

Us Christians the true Israel of God.

He hath made one blood all nations of men.

One body, one blood, one baptism , one spiritual drink

 

[weakness]

I have not so much study and am not sure the proper meaning of dispensationalism. But I think I get the picture.God has to some degree dispensed over different times segments of his plan.I do not see a need to go much further than that.As far as the church replacing old testament Israel,I look at it not as a replacement but more as an extension under a new covenant and a change from the old., still bearing the same root., and open to both Jew and Greek. For there is only One body of Christ.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

To understand verse Romans 11:25 properly you have to take all Paul said into account:

(1) It had been established in chapter 10 that Paul was upset that the Gentiles lacked zeal to preach to his fleshly relatives, asking them "How will they here without someone to preach?"

(2) Verse 1 shows the Gentiles being affected by the Jews persecution of them had caused them to act as though all the remaining Jews yet outside of Christ must have been completely cast off.

(3) Verses 2-5 argues that it is no different than in Elias day, that there is yet a remnant of them still out there. Only a remnant yet out there.

(4) Verses 6-11 shows that God did not take the full remnant all at once but was bringing that remnant in gradually so that the Gentiles could be benefited by being used to help bring the remainder of that remnant in.

(5) Verse 14 shows Paul was not speaking of all Jews yet out there being save, but only some, as in the remaining part of the remnant of them, just as in the days of Elias. (Compare Romans 10:1 showing Paul only hoped they might be saved.)

(6) Verse 15 Paul argues that the fulness of that remaining remnant yet out there is valuable to God, even as all human life from the dead even of the gentiles is.

(7) Verse 16 Paul argues that if the firstfruits of that remnant be holy to God then the entire lump of that remnant yet out there must also be holy to God. (That gets missed to apply to all as in the entire Israel but that idea jumps from Paul's theme arguing for the remnant yet out there. We must stick with Paul's theme and his theme is that just as in Elias day there is yet part of a remnant still out there, even as Elias was the first part of that remnant back in his day and more of a remnant remained out there.)

(8) Verses 17-24 merely warns the Gentiles to not be so high minded becuse God could cut them back off that tree, as in permanently and revert back to only saving a remnant of those Jews rather than a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles.

(9) Verse 25, which actually says when properly translated and understood, Stop making this out as something mysterious in your ignorance. It is no mystery. That remaining part of that remnant which is yet out there, will be out there as it is being brought in along with the fulness of the Gentiles being brought in.

(10) Verse 26-31 (as compared to what Paul said at Romans 9: 6-15) is only telling us that remnant of all who are really Israel by the election of God (not of flesh) will be saved just as it was prophesied that remnant would be. It has never been prophesied that all would be saved which is why Paul clearly said he hoped to save some of them in verse 14. It is false doctrine that claims God ever said all Israel as in all Israel by flesh would be saved. And it the spirit of the Synagogue of Satan per Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 which has infiltrated that idea into the church.

(11) Verse 32 says, Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them [as in the remaining part of that remnant] all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all [of the remnant of both Jews and gentiles yet out there.].

Them is a word added by the translator in verse 32 and actually says, Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." Which is the same exact thing Paul spoke of at Galatians 3:22. Read the entire Galatians chapter 3 and you will see all he meant at Romans 11:32.

I have been staying strictly to the scriptures with them all the way through our discussion. crossnote has injected opinion all over the place and has not stayed by scripture. He blasphemes Abraham and Paul in his opinions which go way outside of scripture, touting that Abraham had no faith before God approached him the way that the wicked generation of Jews back then demanded a sign before they could have faith. He is saying that is what Abraham did and blaspheming Abraham.

And he claims that Paul had not faith in God before his conversion on the road to Damascus. That is a blasphemy by missed understanding. You guys have mistaken faith in Christ with faith in the Father. It was on the basis of true faith in the Father that Abel was remembered and that Noah and his family was saved. Abraham's faith was in the Father. The Promises were given upon faith in the Father not upon faith in the seed that is Jesus and everyone has missed that, transferring that faith all over to Jesus who was back when the promises were made only the seed, the thing promised of God the Father and faith was in the word of the Father that God cannot lie.

And Paul had that. He lacked yet fully understanding the thing promised but his faith in God was strong.

Please grasp this and help me break this reign of the synagogue of Satan in the church. We need to educate ourselves so we can bring them to their knees.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

THERE IS MUCH CONFUSION OVER FAITH AND WHERE FAITH BEGINS.

Mark this into your minds with unalterable ink: Jesus said plainly, Matthew 11:27 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Remember what Jesus told Peter when Jesus asked who they thought Jesus was: Matthew 16:15 "He [Jesus] saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGINS. THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGAN FOR ABEL, FOR ENOCH, AND FOR NOAH WHO BY IT FOUND THE DIVINE FAVOR OF GRACE IN GOD'S EYES. Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."

THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGAN FOR ABRAHAM, FOR ISAAC, AND FOR JACOB.

SARAH HAD TROUBLE WITH THAT BEGINNING FAITH BUT ABRAHAM DID NOT. THEREFORE GOD HAD TO TELL ABRAHAM TO LISTEN TO SARAH AND DO WHAT SARAH REQUESTED OF HIM. SO THEN ABRAHAM'S SIRING OFFSPRING BY SARAH'S MAID SERVANT WAS NOT ABRAHAM LACKING IN FAITH.

GOD TOLD ABRAHAM TO LISTEN TO SARAH SO THAT HE COULD CREATE THE LIVING ALLEGORY PAUL SPEAKS OF AT GALATIANS 4:21-31. GOD USE EVERYTHING CONNECTED TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB BACK THEN TO CREATE VARIOUS ALLEGORIES FOR US TODAY TO ASSIST OUR ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT TOOK PLACE WITH FLESHLY ISRAEL VERSES GOD'S TRUE ISRAEL OF THE SPIRIT.

THAT FAITH HAS ALWAYS BEGAN IN GOD THE FATHER THAT HE CANNOT LIE!!! THAT IS THE BEGINNING FAITH THAT GOD BLESSED THAT SPIRIT OF FAITH BY THOSE IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE. AS HIS TRUE ISRAEL OF A RIGHT SPIRIT WHICH BELIEVES WITH IT'S WHOLE HEART THAT GOD CANNOT LIE, GOD ELECTED THEM TO BE IN CHRIST WHERE BY BEING IN CHRIST THEY COULD THEN COME TO KNOW THE FATHER INTIMATELY IN TERMS OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS AND KNOW HOW TO RID THEMSELVES OF THEIR OWN FLAWED RIGHTEOUSNESS.

THE MEEK ARE THOSE WHO HAVE THAT FAITH THAT GOD CANNOT LIE. AND THAT HAS TO EXIST FIRST OR NO ONE WOULD EVER ACCEPT CHRIST. THE OT TELLS US THAT SINCE THE FIRST ONE, ABEL, SUCH MEEK ONES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN THE EARTH TO BE FOUND. IN FACT GOD MAKES IT CLEAR THAT HAD THEY NOT BEEN GOD WOULD HAVE JUST GONE AHEAD AND DESTROYED THE EARTH, COMPLETELY.


IT IS BLASPHEMY AGAINST GOD AND AGAINST ABRAHAM, PAUL, OR ANYONE, TO CLAIM THEY DID NOT HAVE TO HAVE THAT BEGINNING FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE, BEFORE GOD COULD REVEAL CHRIST TO THEM, OR EVEN BEFORE GOD WOULD HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM IN TERMS OF BLESSING THEM WITH THE PROMISES.


THIS IS AN EXTREMELY SERIOUS MATTER FOLKS. IT CANNOT GET MORE SERIOUS AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BLASPHEMING GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH REVEALS THIS ERROR CONCERNING FAITH TO THE MANY THAT HAVE PUT IT ALL IN CHRIST AND FORGOTTEN TO TEACH THAT BEGINNING FAITH IN GOD.

HERE WHAT I SAY AND FEAR GOD.


ASK YOURSELVES IF CROSSNOTE'S CLAIM THAT I AM WRONG IN THIS BECAUSE OF WHAT PAUL SAID AT ROMANS 10:17.

Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

ABSORB THAT A SECOND SO THAT YOU CAN SEE HOW SUBTLE FORCES ARE THAT MISLEAD.

NOW HEAR THIS: Matthew 13:14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive.."

RIGHT THERE YOU CAN BEGIN TO UNRAVEL CROSSNOTE'S LIE. BUT DON'T HATE HIM AS HE MAY PERHAPS REPENT IT AND IF NOT THEN HE DESIRES TO BE RIGHT MORE THAN HE DESIRES TO KNOW TRUTH. IT WILL BE YOUR DUTY TO HIM AND TO GOD TO IGNORE HIM UNTIL HE DOES REPENT IT. OTHERWISE HE WILL ONLY BE CONTENT TO KEEP DECEIVING HIMSELF. AND TO ALLOW THAT WOULD NOT BE LOVING OF US.

AS I SAID, WE CAN BEGIN TO UNRAVEL THAT LIE, HERE, Matthew 13:14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive.."

THEY HEARD BUT NO FAITH IN WHO CAME? NO FAITH IN CHRIST CAME. BUT, THAT DID NOT MEAN THAT THEY HAD NO FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE SO THAT THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE NO FAITH THAT GOD WOULD DELIVER ON HIS PROMISES. ABOUT 2% OF THEM TODAY OUT OF THAT 10% THAT ACTUALLY EXPRESS BELIEF IN GOD, YET HOLD OUT HOPE OF REALIZING THOSE PROMISES. THEY JUST HAVE NOT YET UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY ARE FULFILLED IN JESUS AS THE MESSIAH. AND THAT TWO PERCENT MAY YET WAKE UP. COMPARE WHAT I HERE SAID TO THE LAST POST WHERE I DISCUSSED ROMANS CHAPTER 11 AND SHOWED THAT THE ENTIRE THEME STICKS TO THAT REMNANT, RATHER THAN TO THE WHOLE NATION.

FOR THE TRUE ISRAELITE BY THE SPIRIT OF FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE AND THAT THEREFOR THESE PROMISES SURELY MUST COME, THEIR NOT ACCEPTING JESUS ONLY MEANT THAT THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORD THEY HEARD ABOUT JESUS.

AND FOR THAT SMALL NUMBER WHO ACTUALLY HAD THAT MODICUM OF FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE, THAT WAS BECAUSE IT REQUIRES GOD TO HELP THEM TO HAVE FAITH IN JESUS AS DISCUSSED AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS POST. THUS IT WAS ONLY TRUE FOR THAT SMALL NUMBER WHO ACTUALLY HAD THAT MODICUM OF FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE THAT IT CAN BE SAID THAT GOD LET THEM REMAIN BLINDED.

THE ONES LACKING THAT MODICUM OF FAITH, OF WHICH PAUL WAS NOT ONE, THEY HAD BLINDED THEMSELVES THROUGH UNBELIEF OF THEIR OWN EMPTY MINDS THAT COULD NOT SEE GOD IN ALL THAT GOD HAS DONE AND IN CREATION AROUND THEM TO HAVE MODICUM OF FAITH IN GOD THAT GOD CANNOT LIE. WE SEE THAT TYPE ALL AROUND US.

BUT THAT IS WHERE READING WHAT PAUL SPEAKS CONFUSES MANY AS SOMETIMES HE IS SPEAKING OF THAT LARGER PORTION WHICH BLINDED THEMSELVES BY THEIR OWN UNWILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE EVEN IN THE FATHER. (LIKE THEY 8O TO 90 PERCENT OF ISRAEL TODAY), AND SOMETIMES PAUL WAS SPEAKING OF THE REMNANT (THAT SMALL NUMBER) YET BLIND BECAUSE GOD HAD NOT YET OPENED THEIR EYES AS GOD HAD RESERVED IT FOR THEM TO HAVE THEIR EYES OPENED BY BEING PREACHED TO BY THE GENTILES INCITING THEM TO JEALOUSY WHEN THEY PREACHED TO THEM.

WE HAVE TO DISCERN FROM THE CONTEXT AND OUR KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THAT PAUL HAS TOLD US, WHICH ONES OF THAT NATION PAUL IS SPEAKING OF WHEN HE SPEAKS.

MANY OF THEM LACKED THAT FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE BUT THOSE ONES WOULD NOT TRY EVEN TO SERVE GOD BY THEIR OWN ZEAL. NO ONE SERVES GOD IF THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN HIM AND THOSE ONES WOULD NOT BE AT ALL INTERESTED TO HEAR ANYONE PREACH TO THEM SO AS TO BE MADE JEALOUS BY THE ONE PREACHING TO THEM.

HOW DOES THAT JEALOUSY WORK? IT WORKS THAT IN WHEN THE GENTILE PREACHER CAME TO THEM TO PREACH TO THEM, THE ONES THAT HAD THAT FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE WOULD NOT LIKE A GENTILE KNOWING MORE THAN THEY. AND THAT WOULD BE A FORCE TO MOVE THEM TO TRY HARDER TO THINK THE MATTER THROUGH.

THAT EFFORT OF THEIR FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE GOD WOULD THEN BLESS AND REMOVE THE VEIL FROM OFF OF THEIR HEART.

BUT HE HAD LEFT THAT SMALL NUMBER OF THE BLINDED FOR THE SAKE OF THE GENTILES, FOR IF GOD WAS GOING TO HELP THE GENTILES TO BECOME IN DEPTH IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE IT WOULD MOST CERTAINLY BE BY HAVING THEM PREACH TO TRUE JEWS OF FAITH THAT HAD THAT BACKGROUND KNOWLEDGE. THAT WOULD MAKE A GENTILE HAVE TO WORK HIMSELF TO A FULLER UNDERSTANDING IN ORDER TO BE EFFICIENTLY ABLE TO PREACH TO THE JEW OF FAITH IN THE PROMISES OF GOS THAT HE CANNOT LIE.

I HOPE THIS CLEARS UP MUCH OF THE CONFUSION REIGNING HERE AND ENDS THE CURRENT BLASPHEMY OR AT LEAST MINIMIZES THAT BLASPHEMY BY EQUIPPING MORE TO WAGE SPIRITUAL WARFARE AGAINST IT.

 

[svedbygrace]

Rom 9:6


Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

According to this verse, is paul recognizing Two distinct Israel's ? If yes, what is the difference of the Two ?

If no, then why did He use those words like that ?19

 

[svedbygrace]

There was a national Israel and a remnant Israel..Rom 9:6

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:27

27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 11:4-7

4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5Even so then at this present time also there is a Remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The promises of old were to Israel the Remnant, who were in National Israel, and God has been faithful to His promises to the Remnant Israel, thats why paul says:

Rom 11:1-2

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

So the promises has always been not to all of the nation of Israel, but to a remnant within the nation..which too is Israel, the Israel of God..

 

[RaphaEl2nd]

The Israel of God
(Galatians 6:16)

by Michael Marlowe, Dec. 2004.

14 ἐμοὶ δὲ μὴ γένοιτο καυχᾶσθαι εἰ μὴ ἐν τῷ σταυρῷ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, δι᾽ οὗ ἐμοὶ κόσμος ἐσταύρωται κἀγὼ κόσμῳ. 15 οὔτε γὰρ περιτομή τί ἐστιν οὔτε ἀκροβυστία, ἀλλὰ καινὴ κτίσις. 16 καὶ ὅσοι τῷ κανόνι τούτῳ στοιχήσουσιν, εἰρήνη ἐπ᾽ αὐτοὺς καὶ ἔλεος, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ.

14 But far be it from me to boast, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.




The proper interpretation and translation of the last phrase in Galatians 6:16 has become a matter of controversy in the past century or so. Formerly it was not a matter of controversy. With few exceptions, "The Israel of God" was understood as a name for the Church here. [1] The καὶ ("and") which precedes the phrase ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ ("upon the Israel of God") was understood as an explicative καὶ. This understanding of the grammar is reflected in the Revised Standard Version's "Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God," and in the New International Version's "even to the Israel of God." It is not necessary, however, to understand the καὶ as an explicative in order to get substantially the same sense. If it be regarded as an ordinary connective καὶ, as Marvin Vicent says, "The ὅσοι ['as many as'] will refer to the individual Christians, Jewish and Gentile, and Israel of God to the same Christians, regarded collectively, and forming the true messianic community." (Word Studies in the New Testament vol. 4, p. 180). So the rendering "and upon the Israel of God" (KJV and others) is acceptable enough, if it is not misunderstood. In any case, it seems clear that in this verse Paul cannot be pronouncing a benediction upon persons who are not included in the phrase "as many as shall walk by this rule" (the rule of boasting only in the cross). The entire argument of the epistle prevents any idea that here in 6:16 he would give a blessing to those who are not included in this group.

The phrase has become controversial because the traditional interpretation conflicts with principles of interpretation associated with Dispensationalism. Dispensationalists are interested in maintaining a sharp distinction between "Israel" and "the Church" across a whole range of theological matters pertaining to prophecy, ecclesiology, and soteriology. They are not comfortable with the idea that here Paul is using the phrase "Israel of God" in a sense that includes Gentiles, because this undermines their contention that "the Church" is always carefully distinguished from "Israel" in Scripture. This is a major tenet of dispensationalist hermeneutics. C.I. Scofield in his tract, Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth (New York, Loizeaux Brothers, 1888) wrote, "Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student ] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." Likewise Charles Ryrie in his book Dispensationalism Today (Chicago, 1965) explained that the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." (pp. 44-45).

The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) < click


etc etc

do we have this sorted out yet?

If I may ask , What is the meaning of the word Israel ?

 

[tribesman]

...etc etc

do we have this sorted out yet?

Oh how we have...many times...and many times on deaf ears. Love u sis.

 

[zone]

If I may ask , What is the meaning of the word Israel ?

you deny the Deity of Jesus, correct?

i would need an answer to that before attempting to discuss who is really Israel.

Matthew 2:15
where he [JESUS] stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."

 

[zone]

Oh how we have...many times...and many times on deaf ears. Love u sis.

lol.
i love you too brother.

it seems to be coming down to this, in these last days, ya?
there's a line in the sand appearing.

amazing.

 

[svedbygrace]

Who Is Israel ?


The True Israel of God is really Jesus christ..There are scriptures that indicate this i.e Isa 49:1-3

1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3

And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Jesus christ was the antitype of Jacob or Israel, being the Head and represenitive of the whole Israel of God, which is His body, the church.

The prophecy in hosea indicates that Jesus christ is Gods Son Israel
Hos 11:1

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Now see how the Holy Spirit applies this too Jesus in Matt 2:15

And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

So Israel is all those who are in Union with Gods Son Israel..for they were chosen in Him

Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:31

 

[enoch1nine]

If when you read scripture, you mentally replace "Israel" with "Sincere Christianity", and "Jacob" with "insincere Christianity" then it's pretty easy to see what's going on and what's coming.

 

[svedbygrace]

I am the True Vine Israel

Jn 15:1

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Jesus here is intimating that He is the True Israel..for vine represents Israel in scripture. Now remember how that the Son out of egypt intimated Jesus as Israel i.e Hos 11:1

1When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Matt 2:15

15And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Now there is more scripture confirmation that this son called out of egypt, which was christ typified, also is typified by a vine, lets look at Ps 80:8

8Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.

This vine out of egypt, is Jesus the True Israel, the True vine of Jn 15: 1

And it serves to reason, all those chosen in Him before the foundation are the true Sons of Israel..

 

[svedbygrace]

Rom 11:28

Rom 11:28

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

The unbelieving Jews were enemies of the gospel and to all who were true believers, both jew and gentile. For Paul himself as an unbelieving jew was a enemie to those who preached and believed the gospel [ 1 Tim 1:13 ; Acts 9], but as for the election of grace within Israel, these are loved for the promises made to fathers sake, the promises that there would be deliverance for ethnic jews is kept by God in the deliverance of the election of grace within the jewish people, as paul himself was an example of [ Rom 11:1] So this verse here speaks as Rom 9:6 contrasting the two Israels, which are Unbelieving Israel the enemies of the gospel [ permanently ] and the remnant which is according to the election of grace, who of course start out as enemies by nature as paul did , but will be delivered or converted to Jesus christ as Paul was.. The remnant along with the believing gentiles is how all Israel will be saved, and at the same time God being Faithful to ethnic Jews who are part of the election of grace..33