I think if i saw Jesus in my cereal bowl that would be proof enough sister o.o I'd fall to my knees and start worshiping.
BTW pilgrim that vid has a troll on it if you go to the youtube link XD
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BTW pilgrim that vid has a troll on it if you go to the youtube link XD
whoa....look at that super-cool flag!
feel like i'm at woodstock, man.
Seychelles. who knew?
Seychelles (i/seɪˈʃɛlz/ say-shelz; French: [sɛʃɛl]), officially the Republic of Seychelles (French: République des Seychelles; Creole: Repiblik Sesel), is a 115-island country spanning an archipelago in the Indian Ocean, some 1,500 kilometres (932 mi) east of mainland Africa, northeast of the island of Madagascar.
oh ya...i'm there.
simple things and shiny objects are good.
end derailment.
sorry
I did. But before you go there be aware of the fact that the islands are sinking. You might need one of these
Sorry for the derailment.
D
danschance
Guest
Well I guess the prime question is how do you know Jesus even existed? There are no contemporary to Jesus accounts of him ever having existed by either his followers or the general population. The first writings about Jesus came some 37-38 years after his death by people who were born after his death.
How did you get the info on "The first writings about Jesus came some 37-38 years after his death.."? Please list a source.
(Still waiting for a reply)
I find it interesting that a world religion with more than one billion adherents could have come into being without the original founder ever having existed.
That the original disciples, and those who believed on the day of Pentecost, were believing a lie, and that is why the gospel spread like wild fire. Because it was a lie???
All religions have origins. Josephus Flavius was the most read man in the ancient Greco-Roman world, although he was born just slightly after Jesus was crucified, even he wrote about him. Here is a reliable (If Christian!) site that you might want to read farther.
Regarding the quotes from the historian Josephus about Jesus|Josephus a Jewish priest,wrote Antiquities | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Here is a small sample of what he wrote (underlines are questionable inserts!):
"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man [if indeed one ought to call him a man.] For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. [He was the Christ.] When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. [On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things about him.] And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.”
I don't have all day to argue about Christ, his deity, (Because he did exist) so I will just give you an experiential non-apologetic response.
I was an alcoholic, living in sin, depressed and ready to take my own life. Jesus entered my life, spoke to me, and called me his own. I stopped drinking, became a teacher (now a chaplain). I married a Christian man, and have 4 grown children, all married with good careers.
None of that would be possible without Christ! I would probably be dead by now.
As far as books:
The Case for Christ - Lee Strobel.
Mere Christianity - C.S. Lewis.
I am not at home, but I have many more books to post. Some by Ph.D secular professors, which might mean something to someone demanding some kind of intellectual proof. In the end, you have to leave the intellect behind, and let the Spirit speak to you. But apologetics is a good place to start.
My question is - Do you believe in "God" at all? Because you started with Jesus, not the existence of God.
That the original disciples, and those who believed on the day of Pentecost, were believing a lie, and that is why the gospel spread like wild fire. Because it was a lie???
All religions have origins. Josephus Flavius was the most read man in the ancient Greco-Roman world, although he was born just slightly after Jesus was crucified, even he wrote about him. Here is a reliable (If Christian!) site that you might want to read farther.
Regarding the quotes from the historian Josephus about Jesus|Josephus a Jewish priest,wrote Antiquities | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Here is a small sample of what he wrote (underlines are questionable inserts!):
"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man [if indeed one ought to call him a man.] For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. [He was the Christ.] When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. [On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things about him.] And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.”
I don't have all day to argue about Christ, his deity, (Because he did exist) so I will just give you an experiential non-apologetic response.
I was an alcoholic, living in sin, depressed and ready to take my own life. Jesus entered my life, spoke to me, and called me his own. I stopped drinking, became a teacher (now a chaplain). I married a Christian man, and have 4 grown children, all married with good careers.
None of that would be possible without Christ! I would probably be dead by now.
As far as books:
The Case for Christ - Lee Strobel.
Mere Christianity - C.S. Lewis.
I am not at home, but I have many more books to post. Some by Ph.D secular professors, which might mean something to someone demanding some kind of intellectual proof. In the end, you have to leave the intellect behind, and let the Spirit speak to you. But apologetics is a good place to start.
My question is - Do you believe in "God" at all? Because you started with Jesus, not the existence of God.
hmmm, I can't PM you...so I'll have to ask you my question here:
I was just wondering how your life is today. Would you view your life as a life on track in the sense that all your desires and wants are or seem attainable? Is your standard of living adequate, is life going well. Are you in need or want? Please describe to me how you view your life at the moment in terms success or satisfaction.
I was just wondering how your life is today. Would you view your life as a life on track in the sense that all your desires and wants are or seem attainable? Is your standard of living adequate, is life going well. Are you in need or want? Please describe to me how you view your life at the moment in terms success or satisfaction.
truth doesn't change.
but who says what's recorded in anything other than scripture is accurate or even true?
no, i'm not a flat earther.
that's 1Still
possibly a few others.
no, i hold to the Biblical Geocentric model.
exactly as God told us.
who said i reject historical findings? i accept truthful historical records, and reject fraudulent history (generally called lies or propaganda - example - Pol Pot began the world at year 1 after killing most of the population. should i believe him and change my calendar?)....it does take some energy and care to make sure which history is fabricated and which is truthful, and to what degree.
most don't care one way or the other. makes for easy to remember Holiday dates etc.
and when you decide (as a govt) you dont want certain dates remembered, you simply use a foundation such as Carnegie to gradually erase it from the records.
secret societies exist. but they're secret
a few people own all the corporations which own most of the world's wealth. they have an interest in making things run smoothly.
is this a surprise to you?
or do you think everything happens accidentally. many do.
they wouldn't be Christians in any case.
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M
Moetown
Guest
no, i'm not a flat earther.
that's 1Still
possibly a few others.
no, i hold to the Biblical Geocentric model.
exactly as God told us.
who said i reject historical findings? i accept truthful historical records, and reject fraudulent history (generally called lies or propaganda - example - Pol Pot began the world at year 1 after killing most of the population. should i believe him and change my calendar?)....it does take some energy and care to make sure which history is fabricated and which is truthful, and to what degree.
most don't care one way or the other. makes for easy to remember Holiday dates etc.
and when you decide (as a govt) you dont want certain dates remembered, you simply use a foundation such as Carnegie to gradually erase it from the records.
secret societies exist. but they're secret
a few people own all the corporations which own most of the world's wealth. they have an interest in making things run smoothly.
is this a surprise to you?
or do you think everything happens accidentally. many do.
they wouldn't be Christians in any case.
No, no suprise. Just don't spend too much time digging into the conspiracy stuff, but I am sure that there are chuncks of truth in them, especially ones about the banksters. Don't find much interest in deciding which conspiricay to adhere to though; if it's the Jews or the Masons, etc. that hold the real power (don't find much value in it). I am more a theology, philosphy person who dables a bit in science, politics, and social issues.
It is fun/entertaining to hear about it on occassion though.
M
Moetown
Guest
Lookin at your, photo. You're a cat person aren't you?
Haven't been on these posts very long, but I have noticed a looottt of cat people on hear.
Truth be told, I think I am a closet cat person.
Haven't been on these posts very long, but I have noticed a looottt of cat people on hear.
Truth be told, I think I am a closet cat person.
oh...well you might be surprised about some of the science you dabble in. it's probably mostly philosophy (which is actually some other religion in disguise).
and politics, well...to suggest politics exists without conspiracies happening every 5 seconds is rather naive.
or that political systems today aren't actually orchestrated by secret societies. but oh well.
and social issues...well...i guess you're not familiar with social engineering.
it's been used as far back as the Mystery Schools (Egypt/Babylon etc).
today we like to say social sciences.
don't we.
k....bye then
W
Widdekind
Guest
why cause conflict ?
why dispute, until dispute is absolutely necessary ?
anybody can claim anything whatsoever, whensoever, wheresoever.
But, why would people have believed in Jesus, if the guy never existed? If you don't like Christianity, that's one thing; but why bother denying that Jesus existed?
And, "come on man", the Talmud mentions Jesus, as Yeshu, in unflattering terms, 'cause they didn't like Jesus then, nor now. Jews say Jesus was a heretic. So, the Talmud won't say anything nice about him, as the Talmud won't say anything nice about the Romans.
hypothetically, people could simply acknowledge, that there once was some guy from Galilee named Joshua (Jesus), and some people hated him (calling him a heretic), and other people loved him (calling him The Messiah). But i guess that boils down, to asking Religious people, not to get in a Religious uproar. Religion (often) super-animates people to rashness. Meanwhile, calm cool collected composure with facts, logic & reasoning is the only human-known way, of finding common ground, getting to the bottom of things, etc.
why dispute, until dispute is absolutely necessary ?
anybody can claim anything whatsoever, whensoever, wheresoever.
But, why would people have believed in Jesus, if the guy never existed? If you don't like Christianity, that's one thing; but why bother denying that Jesus existed?
And, "come on man", the Talmud mentions Jesus, as Yeshu, in unflattering terms, 'cause they didn't like Jesus then, nor now. Jews say Jesus was a heretic. So, the Talmud won't say anything nice about him, as the Talmud won't say anything nice about the Romans.
hypothetically, people could simply acknowledge, that there once was some guy from Galilee named Joshua (Jesus), and some people hated him (calling him a heretic), and other people loved him (calling him The Messiah). But i guess that boils down, to asking Religious people, not to get in a Religious uproar. Religion (often) super-animates people to rashness. Meanwhile, calm cool collected composure with facts, logic & reasoning is the only human-known way, of finding common ground, getting to the bottom of things, etc.
K
kenisyes
Guest
A lot of the problem with historical proofs of Jesus, is that Christians destroyed most of the books other than the ones they liked. That means most of the books we have from that period were saved by Christians. Since they were saved mostly by recopying, and they had a strong motive to add and alter things, most of the books are historically suspect. While new proofs turn up every generation, athiests would prefer a proof untouched by Christian hands, and that is very difficult to get.
The Talmud is even suspect, because the Talmud contains much that is symbolic or fanciful. References to Jesus in there could be no more probative than saying that a refrence to the "fact" that Santa Claus has elves working for him, proves the existence of Santa.
There is pagan Messiah, called Appolonius of Tyana, who you can Google up. You will see that people believed in false Messiahs who could never have existed, who worked miracles, etc. In the days when Jesus walked the earth, many people believed in Jupiter, Minerva, etc. as well. Today, many people believe in MOrmonism, which includes Jesus appearing to the American indians, and several Hebrew people who wrote these facts down.
The Talmud is even suspect, because the Talmud contains much that is symbolic or fanciful. References to Jesus in there could be no more probative than saying that a refrence to the "fact" that Santa Claus has elves working for him, proves the existence of Santa.
There is pagan Messiah, called Appolonius of Tyana, who you can Google up. You will see that people believed in false Messiahs who could never have existed, who worked miracles, etc. In the days when Jesus walked the earth, many people believed in Jupiter, Minerva, etc. as well. Today, many people believe in MOrmonism, which includes Jesus appearing to the American indians, and several Hebrew people who wrote these facts down.
M
Moetown
Guest
You don't actually know in what aspects I take an interest in "science, politics, and social issues."
What you did see was an opportunity to establish your superiority.
I even put out an olive branch with the cat thing and you completely ignored it.
Prior to your last post I was a little curious and was considering asking you for some reading references about some of your theories . I think I'll pass.
"k....bye then"
W
Widdekind
Guest
what false Messiahs existed in everybody's minds, without existing in real reality too ?
Does not skepticism first require some sort of contradiction, before one can claim fraud ? If a story checks out, seems perfectly plausible, then why quibble ? Or, if we quibble, then we could quibble on everything, and convince ourselves to be (reasonably) certain of nothing.
There was a guy from Galilee, people perceived him as a Prophet animated by "God in heaven", some loving him, and others hating him. Why bother denying the existence of Jesus?
Does not skepticism first require some sort of contradiction, before one can claim fraud ? If a story checks out, seems perfectly plausible, then why quibble ? Or, if we quibble, then we could quibble on everything, and convince ourselves to be (reasonably) certain of nothing.
There was a guy from Galilee, people perceived him as a Prophet animated by "God in heaven", some loving him, and others hating him. Why bother denying the existence of Jesus?
E
EasterLuv
Guest
That's what discernment is all about Moetown. "You will know them by their fruits."
Ugly repeated mocking sarcasm? That in itself tells the whole story.
now now easter. you're just ticked off that Freemasons can't be christians.
and i am blinded by your holy shining fruit here:
you mentioned real enemies trying to kill us...who are they exactly?
do we get to know or is it a secret?
what a self-righteous hypocrite.
i just read enough of your posts to make me need to go lie down for awhile.
ugh.
E
EasterLuv
Guest
No, no suprise. Just don't spend too much time digging into the conspiracy stuff, but I am sure that there are chuncks of truth in them, especially ones about the banksters. Don't find much interest in deciding which conspiricay to adhere to though; if it's the Jews or the Masons, etc. that hold the real power (don't find much value in it). I am more a theology, philosphy person who dables a bit in science, politics, and social issues.
It is fun/entertaining to hear about it on occassion though.
You know what they say about half-truth and half-lies, and you know who does that regularly. So if conspiracy theories have "chunks" of truth in them but the rest is fabricated, what does that make them? And once again, who is responsible for half-truth and half-lies?