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At best you have made a misapplication. The scripture you rely upon Acts 2:38 is clearly not water baptism. Contextually and linguistically it cannot be supported from the text. I agree that Acts 8:36-39 is water baptism. And properly administered to boot.
Water baptism has its place just not in salvation. Salvation is solely the province of grace.
Commandment wise I'm still working of Luke 10:27
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Water baptism has its place just not in salvation. Salvation is solely the province of grace.
Commandment wise I'm still working of Luke 10:27
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Some things leave no room for compromise. When you get the context right and the translation correct you'll discover it's not me that you are having a problem with but a few little hiccups in the doctrine.
Don't judge me too harshly at least not yet. I have been wrong in the past. I'm certain I must have been.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Don't judge me too harshly at least not yet. I have been wrong in the past. I'm certain I must have been.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Holy Spirit Baptism. The word translated baptized in the verse is baptizeo a derivative of bapto. Baptizo implies a submersion like a sunken ship. This presents obvious problems for water baptism since we cannot live long without air. Holy Spirit baptism however is a submersion with no need to be brought back up. Bapto is a dipping and is used to illustrate water baptism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
S
Yeesss. That is exactly what it is. I've heard this kind of stuff for many years, and it always ends up the same. Brick. Wall.
People with this kind of understanding never move from this position. They are enlightened by their learned understanding and stand behind the argument, " The Holy Spirit denies you understanding because you are really not saved, you just think you are." A denial that acts 2:38 is baptism by water ( this is Jesus's baptism I speak of, not john's, in case someone happens to want to make that argument, again, ad nauseum ) is a denial in the understanding that has been engaged in this passage for nearly 2,000 years and billions of souls. Not too sure I want to engage in that type of claim. I confess, I am not so learned as some of the scholars present, since I have tried over the years to spend most of my time studying the Word, not the words, and I haven't really spent too much time 'boning up' on evidentiary paradigms ( or whatever ), but its just hard for me to reconcile, " And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "[SUP][/SUP]All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "[SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP]Go therefore and [SUP][/SUP]make disciples of [SUP][/SUP]all the nations, [SUP][/SUP]baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, [SUP][/SUP]I am with you [SUP][/SUP]always , even to [SUP][/SUP]the end of the age." Baptizing them in the name of the Holy Spirit-WITH the Holy Spirit?
People with this kind of understanding never move from this position. They are enlightened by their learned understanding and stand behind the argument, " The Holy Spirit denies you understanding because you are really not saved, you just think you are." A denial that acts 2:38 is baptism by water ( this is Jesus's baptism I speak of, not john's, in case someone happens to want to make that argument, again, ad nauseum ) is a denial in the understanding that has been engaged in this passage for nearly 2,000 years and billions of souls. Not too sure I want to engage in that type of claim. I confess, I am not so learned as some of the scholars present, since I have tried over the years to spend most of my time studying the Word, not the words, and I haven't really spent too much time 'boning up' on evidentiary paradigms ( or whatever ), but its just hard for me to reconcile, " And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "[SUP][/SUP]All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "[SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP]Go therefore and [SUP][/SUP]make disciples of [SUP][/SUP]all the nations, [SUP][/SUP]baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, [SUP][/SUP]I am with you [SUP][/SUP]always , even to [SUP][/SUP]the end of the age." Baptizing them in the name of the Holy Spirit-WITH the Holy Spirit?
1 Peter 3
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
Baptism is a physical gesture that symbolizes that you admitted that you are dirty with sin and that you are willing to come clean.
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
Baptism is a physical gesture that symbolizes that you admitted that you are dirty with sin and that you are willing to come clean.
J
does anyone have a problem with following commandments?
does anyone believe that it is a sin not to follow commandment?
does anyone believe that sin separates us from GOD?
does anyone believe that when JESUS said go and baptise and when Peter (who was given the keys of heaven) acts 2:38 that these were commandment?
It is necessary to do what ever GOD ask us to do and if we don't it is sin, and that sin will keep you from heaven. disobedience is sin.
does anyone believe that it is a sin not to follow commandment?
does anyone believe that sin separates us from GOD?
does anyone believe that when JESUS said go and baptise and when Peter (who was given the keys of heaven) acts 2:38 that these were commandment?
It is necessary to do what ever GOD ask us to do and if we don't it is sin, and that sin will keep you from heaven. disobedience is sin.
You are the first person that I've ever heard day that this passage means Holy Spirit baptism, and it simply does not work in this verse for many reasons.
1. Never once in the bible is the HS baptism a command. It is given by the Holy Spirit as a blessing/gift. Peter is giving a command to be baptized. Even the apostles had to wait for their HS baptism. They didn't recieve it upon their own command.
2. I've never in the bible read where the HS baptism is for the remission of sins. There are no references to this whatsoever.
3. If you think back to the 1st century you'd realize that these people knew what Johns baptism was. It was water. When Peter told them to be baptized it is obvious that they'd realize he was referring to water and not something else.
1. Never once in the bible is the HS baptism a command. It is given by the Holy Spirit as a blessing/gift. Peter is giving a command to be baptized. Even the apostles had to wait for their HS baptism. They didn't recieve it upon their own command.
2. I've never in the bible read where the HS baptism is for the remission of sins. There are no references to this whatsoever.
3. If you think back to the 1st century you'd realize that these people knew what Johns baptism was. It was water. When Peter told them to be baptized it is obvious that they'd realize he was referring to water and not something else.
Everybody has a problem with keeping commandments. Rom 8:
1 John 1:8 if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and His truth is not in us. For by the law comes knowledge of sin.
Of course that's why we have an advocate with the Father Who makes intercession for us. Heb 7:25
Whoops here's where the train jumps off the track. You just dumped grace for works. There is a spiritual concept here that you are not grasping. We do not discard the commandments but the commandments no longer are sin to us. Christ has fulfilled all the commandments for us. Only perfect keeping of commandments is sufficient for God. Failing in even the smallest degree is complete failure in Gods eyes.
What do you teach were the keys of heaven given to Peter the little stone? Commandments? Through grace sin no longer has any power over us. When believers sin they suffer only a loss of fellowship with the Father. The Father never brings us under His condemnation again. Never. Our sins are removed as far as the east is from the west never to be remembered again. All our sins are under the blood. All past, present and future. That is not a license to sin and those that go there are demonstrating a lack of repentance toward sin. The new creature in Christ has a new nature that hates sin and loves righteousness. 2 Cor 5:17
For the cause of Christ
Roger
What do you teach were the keys of heaven given to Peter the little stone? Commandments? Through grace sin no longer has any power over us. When believers sin they suffer only a loss of fellowship with the Father. The Father never brings us under His condemnation again. Never. Our sins are removed as far as the east is from the west never to be remembered again. All our sins are under the blood. All past, present and future. That is not a license to sin and those that go there are demonstrating a lack of repentance toward sin. The new creature in Christ has a new nature that hates sin and loves righteousness. 2 Cor 5:17
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I demonstrated from the text that in the original language it can be nothing else. The bible was not written in English so the men who translated it had a huge task to take the original and make it as accurate as possible.
The apostles received the Holy Spirit in the upper room before Pentacost. John 20:22
It is precisely what John said when he saw Jesus. A baptism John could not give only God.
The Jews were baptizing long before John. John's baptism was different in that John said it was in preparation for the coming kingdom of God. A baptism of repentance. the Jews knew of the Holy Spirit baptism because Joel prophesied it. Joel 2
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
baptized INTO HIS DEATH AND.....AND....raised with Him in His Resurrection.
so your Holy Spirit baptism has you at the bottom of something, never emerging in His resurrection.
no, Holy Spirit Baptism was for the infallibly gifted and inspired prophets and apostles who with the Lord laid the foundation of the new church.
PENTECOST. it already happened. it won't happen again.
they were Baptized; overwhelmed by the Spirit - the POWER FROM ON HIGH....for an important JOB.
they were ALSO baptized by water.
...
this is not how it works today.
but some folks just can't grasp this.
it's easy:
repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and THEN, AFTER THOSE THINGS, and receive the Holy Spirit (this is NOT being "Baptized in the Holy Ghost").
i fear some people are going to be very surprised on that Day.
Luke 6:46
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
James 1:22
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says
Matthew 7:24
"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inb the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
if you insist on denying we are to make disciples, baptize them, and teach them what Jesus said, at least please stop teaching that to others.
Acts 10:48
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
so your Holy Spirit baptism has you at the bottom of something, never emerging in His resurrection.
no, Holy Spirit Baptism was for the infallibly gifted and inspired prophets and apostles who with the Lord laid the foundation of the new church.
PENTECOST. it already happened. it won't happen again.
they were Baptized; overwhelmed by the Spirit - the POWER FROM ON HIGH....for an important JOB.
they were ALSO baptized by water.
...
this is not how it works today.
but some folks just can't grasp this.
it's easy:
repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and THEN, AFTER THOSE THINGS, and receive the Holy Spirit (this is NOT being "Baptized in the Holy Ghost").
i fear some people are going to be very surprised on that Day.
Luke 6:46
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
James 1:22
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says
Matthew 7:24
"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inb the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
if you insist on denying we are to make disciples, baptize them, and teach them what Jesus said, at least please stop teaching that to others.
Acts 10:48
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
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