Does the Bible support firearms & self-defense?

[4enlightment]

First of all, Peter wasn't aiming for the ear, LOL. The guy dodged. No one cuts off an ear after saying "Shall we slay with the sword?" Jesus sacrificed Himself for us, and He went with the soldiers. But He told Peter to put the sword in his sheath, He didn't tell him to throw it away. If we are truly to resist not evil in any way, then Paul sinned when he ducked out in the basket.

Anyone can use a basket or a purse as a weapon. In the Bible the meaning of the sword is use as a metaphor for judgement; because you are going to end that person life which it is consider a final judgement. God doesn't want us to judge anyone for any reason, but we are willing to do anything to save our lives here on earth but we aren't willing to do anything to save our life for next, because the world is our treasure that is only here temporary.

 

[matt7777777]

So should we just let criminals completly take over the world so they can kill still an rape just so we dont have to kill anyone? Thats not love thats cowerdnece.

 

[Angela53510]

Luke 22

35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Since this is so different an ethic than Jesus taught elsewhere, AND there is no evidence of a disciple or apostle ever fighting themselves out of a difficult situation, Jesus is not literally telling the disciples to BUY a sword, but rather to prepare for difficult times. Jesus knew what they were about to face, because this verse occurred at the last supper.

Look at the WHOLE passage:

[h=3]Scripture Must Be Fulfilled in Jesus[/h][SUP]35 [/SUP]And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” [SUP]36 [/SUP]He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. [SUP]37 [/SUP]For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” [SUP]38 [/SUP]And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”
[h=3]Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives[/h][SUP]39 [/SUP]And he came out and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives, and the disciples followed him. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” [SUP]41 [/SUP]And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed, [SUP]42 [/SUP]saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me.Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.” [SUP]43 [/SUP]And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him.[SUP]44 [/SUP]And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground. [SUP]45 [/SUP]And when he rose from prayer, he came to the disciples and found them sleeping for sorrow, [SUP]46 [/SUP]and he said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Rise and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”
[h=3]Betrayal and Arrest of Jesus[/h][SUP]47 [/SUP]While he was still speaking, there came a crowd, and the man called Judas, one of the twelve, was leading them. He drew near to Jesus to kiss him, [SUP]48 [/SUP]but Jesus said to him, “Judas, would you betray the Son of Man with a kiss?” [SUP]49 [/SUP]And when those who were around him saw what would follow, they said, “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” [SUP]50 [/SUP]And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. [SUP]51 [/SUP]But Jesus said, “No more of this!” And he touched his ear and healed him. [SUP]52 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders, who had come out against him, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs? [SUP]53 [/SUP]When I was with you day after day in the temple, you did not lay hands on me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness.” Luke 11 35-26.

If you look closely, he is actually warning the disciples that his hour has come. And he says this to fulfill prophecy from Isa. 53:12 The Bible is complex - you really have to know who to interpret it and the very first step is:

READ THE BIBLE IN CONTEXT. In that passage, Jesus actually heals the ear of the soldier that Peter strikes. And for that matter, perhaps Jesus purpose in the swords was just for that last incident in the Garden of Gethsamene, to make sure that he would be taken away. And that the disciples would learn NOT to fight back, but to trust God in everything.

This is propaganda, pure and simple, about the NEED to defend yourself. Christ is our shield and defender.

"I love you, O Lord, my strength.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer,
my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge,
my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised,
and I am saved from my enemies." Psalm 18:1-3

My thought is everyone who is not reading their Bibles through completely every year, and reading every day, needs to commit to do that. You will be amazed to read the Words of God in context, without a propaganda machine turning out lies.

 

[4enlightment]

So should we just let criminals completly take over the world so they can kill still an rape just so we dont have to kill anyone? Thats not love thats cowerdice.

Well I know that they already has taken over, even the ones that are in office that had stolen from the pot and which they are excepting bribes which leave us unprotected because of budget cuts. This world has too many issues that it's too hard for us to handle and it's even getting worst.

Jamie Leigh Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jamie Leigh Jones loses rape case against former Halliburton subsidiary KBR | Texas on the Potomac | a Chron.com blog

Halliburton Rape Case

So are you willing to clean up the house?

 

[matt7777777]

I agree the goverment is criminal which is another reason i belive we need guns.. but my point was the only reason criminals in jail stay there is because fear of death. If the rest of the world decided it was wrong to ever kill an they wouldnt do it than criminals would jist take over thered be no way to stop them.. i mean sure you could fight back without killing but if they where willling to kill an we werent they would have the advantage... i agree we are spose to be a loving people but that is exactly one reason why it is someone nececary to kill to protect those that we love.. an yes it should decintly be the last choice but when it comes down to it an its between killing someone or letting them hurt other people well i think its a clear choice.

 

[4enlightment]

I agree the goverment is criminal which is another reason i belive we need guns.. but my point was the only reason criminals in jail stay there is because fear of death. If the rest of the world decided it was wrong to ever kill an they wouldnt do it than criminals would jist take over thered be no way to stop them.. i mean sure you could fight back without killing but if they where willling to kill an we werent they would have the advantage... i agree we are spose to be a loving people but that is exactly one reason why it is someone nececary to kill to protect those that we love.. an yes it should decintly be the last choice but when it comes down to it an its between killing someone or letting them hurt other people well i think its a clear choice.

The ones that doesn't follow after Christ is going to be judge; they'll all have their chance to explain before God as the way Adam and Eve had explained their sins before Him. But rather than to go through all that stress standing in line waiting to be judge, thinking about how God is going to decide on your case, and going over and over your story in your mind and how you are going to explain it to Him. That is too much for a person to go through, I'll just do what Christ want us to do, to avoid standing on His Left.

 

[matt7777777]

Sure theyll be judged when they die but that dosent help the people theyll hurt here... if God is good enough to give me a gun to defend other people with than thats exactly what ima do.... according to your logic we should of just stood by an let hitlar take over or we shoulld just stand by an let terriost take over.. tell me how many people do you think would miss out on being saved if we just stood by an let other people tak over an out law christiwns an are teachingnof God.. you vould say well God would let that happen he would provide a way for his word to be spread an your right he already has an its bt given us the tools nececwry to defend are right to share his name an his love.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

I know all about the Second Amendment. It is just sad that it has gone so badly astray, and I agree that it will never be taken out of the constitution. But that does NOT mean Christians have the right to bear arms in light of God's truth. That is putting nationalism and earthly laws above God's law!

Oh ya, I totally agree with you there. It's impossible to justify any type of violence going by what Christ teaches. I might have just misunderstood you, a lot of people I talk to that doesn't live in the U.S knows we are gun crazy but they usually have no idea why a ban would never solve that problem in our case.

 

[4enlightment]

Sure theyll be judged when they die but that dosent help the people theyll hurt here... if God is good enough to give me a gun to defend other people with than thats exactly what ima do.... according to your logic we should of just stood by an let hitlar take over or we shoulld just stand by an let terriost take over.. tell me how many people do you think would miss out on being saved if we just stood by an let other people tak over an out law christiwns an are teachingnof God.. you vould say well God would let that happen he would provide a way for his word to be spread an your right he already has an its bt given us the tools nececwry to defend are right to share his name an his love.

Romans 8:36
Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."

God want us to use our bodies as a living sacrifice as the way a sheep does, it is fatten to be slaughter. We have to use our bodies to unveil to them that are wicked , if they hasn't any physically wrong doing, then how can their heads be bowed. so we are to help God to judge the wicked by using our bodies as living sacrifices and which He can restore and wash away the memories that had came along with the abuse. He has shortened our lives because we will eventually will give in to temptation, but before your foot strikes against a stone, He will deliver you up. Moses was starting to go down-hill but God had taken him when he was at his peak; andso as Joseph, he was being tormented for so long that God had brought him into comfort. God said to those who are doing what He desire for them do, that He comes quickly, and so let the vile be vile and the unholy be unholy and so on. once all this is over and done with you'll understand.

 

[matt7777777]

Theres alot of things i want understand until i meet God but this just aint one of the

 

[4enlightment]

Theres alot of things i want understand until i meet God but this just aint one of the

I know that Jesus asked for the cup to be pass, but it wasn't His will to make that decision... I noticed when someone endure hardships for along time but later on in life the very same issues doesn't bother them anymore.

Matthew 11:30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

1 Corinthians 10:13No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Hebrews 10:32Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering.

 

[cavil51]

I am a Christian and a pro-2nd Amendment. As I read the Bible (OT & NT), it seems to me that the Lord directs us to defend oursevles and innocent life.

There are a lot of smart & well-studied people on here. I would be very interested in verses that you feel support and probably more importantly speak against Christians owning tools (weapons, guns, whatever) to defend themselves and the lives God has entrusted to our care.

Please challenge my thinking!!!

Thanks much
Rob

As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another Proverbs 27:17​

rfkeller

Yes, we are allowed to defend ourselves;
[h=3]
Luke 22:36 “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one![/h]Also:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/05/nation/la-na-nn-pistol-pastor-texas-20130405

 

[4enlightment]

rfkeller

Yes, we are allowed to defend ourselves;

Luke 22:36 “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!

Also:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/05/nation/la-na-nn-pistol-pastor-texas-20130405

But what do we do about when our enemies takes away our cloak?

Luke 6
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be childrenof the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

Matthew 18:33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’

 

[Cobus]

I be if we took these people a dropped them of in getto of houston theyd want a gun then.. its one thing to say you wouldnt defend yourself but its a whole new ball game if you actually find yourself in w life or death situation... dont get me wrong its great that yall wanna just live a life of peace but i think its kind of a niaive view... you may be able to go your whole life without being in a life or death sitiuation but milions of other people aint so lucky.

Matt talk ischeap money buys the wiskey...
So here we go. the getto looks like a ten yearold party if compared to the townships of South Africa in the Apartheid years. Even today with the Zenophobia, and the ungovernable gangster areas in and around cape-town, people set other's on fire just because the police cannot control the area. But it was not as bad as in the nineties.

And in those years I went into the heart of the biggest township in South Africa.... To go show the Jesus film on a soccer-field surrounded by more than a million angry black people. As we set up the film projector, generator, speakers and screen, two "impis" that is warriors of the township walked up to me, and asked me.... "Hey BOER, What do you think you are doing here?" And the one had his hand behind his back. As the other one stood in front of me and doing the talking the one with the knife, I assumed it was a knife, stoof about 45 degrees behind me. He had "DEATH" in his eyes and the other one a little bit of doubt. But just before we set up we prayed for His protection.

I looked the talker streight in the eyes, as he seemed to be the captain, and said.... "As soon as it is dark, we will show a movie with all the words translated into Suthu, so why doy you two not come back and watch the movie. If you think then that you still want to kill me, you may, I will put up no fight!" The captain looked at the other fella and shook his head in a NO manner. The other one looked a bit dissappointed and as they walked of he still pleaded to the captain to let him do it, but the captain used a bit more authority in his voice and the impi just walked off with the captain.

I had NOT even a thought that harm would come our way, let alone thinking what I would use in my defence. Faith does this to a person.... It gived you peace, and assurance, and TRUST no matter what! God said He sent His people as lambs into and amongst wolves, but they should not fear... HE IS WITH THEM and HE IS THE GOOD SHEPARD... HE WILL NOT RUN WHEN THE WOLVES COME FOR ONE OF HIS SHEEP...

A person that needs to defend himself does not have faith! PERIOD. And should a person suffer at the hands of the EVIL ones, for GOD'S Name sake, it is not a gain to defend, but to suffer. Timothy says it best...Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
As we know a lot of this persecution leads to the Godly man's death. When they sticked and whipped Paul, did he resist ONCE? Nope! Wonder why? God said he shall suffer much for His Name sake, just like ALL who live Godly in Christ.

I cannot think that anything else but God's will, will be done in the life of a godly man. Come the time when the other want to harm him, God will be there and that godly man will NOT, NOT DO THIS. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

God says unto ALL MEN, does that mean even the ones that wants to harm me, or kill me? YEP!!!! Doubt not that you will do this, FOR HE WILL STRENGTHEN YOU IN THIS AS WELL!!!!

 

[Cobus]

The best proof I have of this was when a Muslim told me how they have to defend themsleves, family, fellow Muslim, their mosks, Mohammed and the Quran... And I heard myself say... Us Christians has NOTHING to defend here, for our God's Kingdom is not here, and the evil cannot damage anything of God!

The Muslim asked me what I will do if he would threaten my family, I said.... I will pray, and love you, and bless you in my lord's Name..... He said... Oh you are crazy..... I said, I know, God said His wisdom is craziness for the world. And the world's wisdom is foolishness in His sight. So thank you my friend, I would rather be a fool in the world's eyes, than in God's.

I said.... Do you see that my God has more love than your's? My God says I should even love my enimy, and HE gives me the love to achieve this..... Your Allah, gives you hate and the command to slay all who says the Messiah is the Son of God, it is written in the book of Cow, but my God says.... TURN THE OTHER CHEEK.... Your's say, SLAY THEM WHERE YOU FIND THEM...

That is the proof that Jesus does not want us to act like Muslims, Kill all who stands against us. Whether they come with sticks and stones to fight the flesh, we do NOT FIGHT FLESH, but evil spirits. That Muslim was beaten, and he admitted that he has NEVER heard what I said, but then, I doubt it was me speaking, but that is another matter.

May this verse be true to all of us....That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[enoch1nine]

If the man had known what hour the thief would come, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Thieves usually mean business, and the homeowner is not always on equal ground without a sword or whatever.

Someone chopped off an ear right in front of Jesus, with a sword that He told him to bring.

Bad thing about guns is that you can flinch in a moment of anger or confusion and kill, but with a sword, you gotta get pretty personal with the enemy.

 

[Kerry]

People, ban guns if you want to. It will not stop murder. Murder has been going on long before guns were invented. Guns are a tool and also self defense. Our American forefathers fought and died for the right to bear arms. They thought that it was that important. Now we want to belittle that act and say they died in vain. There is nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes). Millions of people have been killed without one shot being fired. Hitler killed millions with gas. The Romans annihilated countries without a gun. If we ban guns, what is next. Bows and arrows, how bout rocks, or flat blade screwdrivers. Will we be allowed to have kitchen knives. People have been killed by all of these. What about drunk drivers that kill more people than a gun ever thought of.

 

[Cobus]

Kerry there is no greater gift than to lay down your life for another..... If someone comes to kill me and my family, we will gladly lay our lives down for GOD. We will die praysing the Lord, like Stephen did. We will thank God for HIS SON, HIS TRUTH, HIS LOVE, and HIS WILL. For me and my house WE SHALL SERVE THE LORD, AMEN!

 

[Kerry]

Cobus, I hope that never happens and I believe that God will protect. But, if America had layed down as you speak. We would be speaking German to this day And under the rule of tyranny. There comes a time that we must fight and pray and ask God to support us. He has done that on many occasions. Just because we are Christian and love our enemies, we must draw a line. God drew that line with Aaron's two son's. He also drew it with Reuben, He also drew it with Sodom.

 

[matt7777777]

ima put it to you this way if God himself told me id go to hell if i ever killed someone even in self defense than i would still do what i had to to protect my love ones even if it ment giving up my eternal life an exspecially so if those loved ones where unsaved.