Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[zone]

Captain Obvious is my alter ego. Your contribution is very thought provoking.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

roger, are you captain obvious; a Mod from another christian forum?

 

[SarahM777]

Whoops here's where the train jumps off the track. You just dumped grace for works. There is a spiritual concept here that you are not grasping. We do not discard the commandments but the commandments no longer are sin to us. Christ has fulfilled all the commandments for us. Only perfect keeping of commandments is sufficient for God. Failing in even the smallest degree is complete failure in Gods eyes.

How hard is it to understand then when one is baptized it is an act of faith. It is putting faith into action. Show me where any where in the Epistles it seems we are to be baptized in the Holy Spirit? Even Acts shows that the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit AT THE TIME THEY BELIEVED. The ones that received the baptism of the Holy were believers who DID NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT INDWELLING IN THEM. All the rest received at the time they believed and then they were baptized into WATER. It is NOT a work it is faith in action. You can NOT separate faith and works,like or not they go hand in hand. True works of faith are faith in action. Our faith is to be active not passive. James is very clear that faith without works is dead.
So the real question comes if one does not do what Jesus told us to do is that faith alive or dead?

 

[4enlightment]

How hard is it to understand then when one is baptized it is an act of faith. It is putting faith into action. Show me where any where in the Epistles it seems we are to be baptized in the Holy Spirit? Even Acts shows that the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit AT THE TIME THEY BELIEVED. The ones that received the baptism of the Holy were believers who DID NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT INDWELLING IN THEM. All the rest received at the time they believed and then they were baptized into WATER. It is NOT a work it is faith in action. You can NOT separate faith and works,like or not they go hand in hand. True works of faith are faith in action. Our faith is to be active not passive. James is very clear that faith without works is dead.
So the real question comes if one does not do what Jesus told us to do is that faith alive or dead?

Measuremnent of an Disciples:

Matthew 6:30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?

Matthew 8:26He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

Matthew 17:17“You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.”


Measurement of an Gentiles:

Matthew 8:10When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 15:28Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

How do God Measure?
How long you have been with Him....

The greastest in the Kingdom:

John 20:29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Matthew 24:15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

Mark 13:14“When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Reason why?

Matthew 12:41The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here.

John 20:29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”




Mark 13:14“When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

 

[notuptome]

roger, are you captain obvious; a Mod from another christian forum?

No. Nobody in their right mind would ever let me moderate but I have never used captain obvious on any forum. Just seemed appropriate reply in the situation. Sorry to disappoint.

For the cause of Christ
Roge

 

[Elizabeth619]

No. Nobody in their right mind would ever let me moderate but I have never used captain obvious on any forum. Just seemed appropriate reply in the situation. Sorry to disappoint.

For the cause of Christ
Roge

Lol this made me giggle. I don't know why.ayne I'm not quite awake yet

 

[homwardbound]

What was Peter commanding them do in the verse RIGHT before it? I think it's pretty clear in that verse Peter is talking about WATER baptism,it says water,see below.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured outeven on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Where does Peter say spirit in that verse? He says they ALREADY RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT.

That was nit a command sister

 

[jinx]

oh good grief!!!! peter commanded them in acts 2:38. and one cannot baptise themselves with the SPIRIT only GOD can do that, but in acts 2:38 peter commands us to be baptized, so that only leaves water!!!!!!

This is not hard to understand!~!!!!!

 

[SarahM777]

That was nit a command sister

Homeward let's try this again

So which one is correct here?

Bible hub

New International Version (©2011)
So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.New Living Translation (©2007)
So he gave orders for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Afterward Cornelius asked him to stay with them for several days.English Standard Version (©2001)
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.International Standard Version (©2012)
So Peter ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked him to stay there for several days.NET Bible (©2006)
So he gave orders to have them baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for several days.Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Then he commanded them to be baptized in the name of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah, and they begged him to stay with them for some days.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
So Peter ordered that they should be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for several days.King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to tarry certain days.American King James Version
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.American Standard Version
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Douay-Rheims Bible
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Then they desired him to tarry with them some days.Darby Bible Translation
And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of the Lord. Then they begged him to stay some days.English Revised Version
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Webster's Bible Translation
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they requested him to tarry certain days.Weymouth New Testament
And he directed that they should be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they begged him to remain with them for a time.World English Bible
He commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay some days.
Young's Literal Translation
he commanded them also to be baptized in the name of the Lord; then they besought him to remain certain days.

HMMMM

How is it that it is translated command.? How hard is it to understand?

 

[notuptome]

oh good grief!!!! peter commanded them in acts 2:38. and one cannot baptise themselves with the SPIRIT only GOD can do that, but in acts 2:38 peter commands us to be baptized, so that only leaves water!!!!!!

This is not hard to understand!~!!!!!

Apparently it is difficult for many. Peter in Acts 2:38 does not command them to be baptized. He was asked by those who were pricked in their hearts by his preaching what shall we do? Peter said repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. Repentance is a complete change of heart to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit baptism is the only baptism that can remit sin. This was part of what Peter had just preached to the crowd from Joel 2.
It takes a lot of gymnastics to support water baptism in this passage. But then no bridge is too far for a pet doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Homeward let's try this again

How is it that it is translated command.? How hard is it to understand?

Apparently four hundred year old English is difficult to translate. At least for some.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jinx]

Apparently it is difficult for many. Peter in Acts 2:38 does not command them to be baptized. He was asked by those who were pricked in their hearts by his preaching what shall we do? Peter said repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. Repentance is a complete change of heart to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit baptism is the only baptism that can remit sin. This was part of what Peter had just preached to the crowd from Joel 2.
It takes a lot of gymnastics to support water baptism in this passage. But then no bridge is too far for a pet doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Dude, don't respond to me, infact please ignore me. LOL.

PLEASE.

why would I ask you to do such a thing???

cause you disagree with EVERYTHING I say, I'm feeling a little singled out.

seriously..... knock it off.

 

[jinx]

Homeward let's try this again





How is it that it is translated command.? How hard is it to understand?

I'm seeing a lot of command in those scriptures.... could that mean it was a command?

 

[notuptome]

baptized INTO HIS DEATH AND.....AND....raised with Him in His Resurrection.
so your Holy Spirit baptism has you at the bottom of something, never emerging in His resurrection.

no, Holy Spirit Baptism was for the infallibly gifted and inspired prophets and apostles who with the Lord laid the foundation of the new church.
PENTECOST. it already happened. it won't happen again.

they were Baptized; overwhelmed by the Spirit - the POWER FROM ON HIGH....for an important JOB.

they were ALSO baptized by water.
...

this is not how it works today.

but some folks just can't grasp this.

it's easy:

repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and THEN, AFTER THOSE THINGS, and receive the Holy Spirit (this is NOT being "Baptized in the Holy Ghost").

i fear some people are going to be very surprised on that Day.

Luke 6:46
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

James 1:22
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says

Matthew 7:24
"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inb the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

if you insist on denying we are to make disciples, baptize them, and teach them what Jesus said, at least please stop teaching that to others.

Acts 10:48
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

This is really way way out there. I cannot believe that it is standard fare in the Lutheran church.
Any way I'll give you Titus 3:5 We are washed and renewed by the Holy Spirit by which we are saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Dude, don't respond to me, infact please ignore me. LOL.
View attachment 50521
PLEASE.

why would I ask you to do such a thing???

cause you disagree with EVERYTHING I say, I'm feeling a little singled out.

seriously..... knock it off.

I really should get that brick wall for my avatar.
If God is dialing your number you had best pick up the phone.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jinx]

HE didn't dial my number, but you got on my nerve.

 

[notuptome]

HE didn't dial my number, but you got on my nerve.

You're welcome.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jinx]

that's arrogant

 

[homwardbound]

does anyone have a problem with following commandments?

does anyone believe that it is a sin not to follow commandment?

does anyone believe that sin separates us from GOD?

does anyone believe that when JESUS said go and baptise and when Peter (who was given the keys of heaven) acts 2:38 that these were commandment?

It is necessary to do what ever GOD ask us to do and if we don't it is sin, and that sin will keep you from heaven. disobedience is sin.

anything and all things without Faith, (belief) is a sin, period

 

[homwardbound]

baptized INTO HIS DEATH AND.....AND....raised with Him in His Resurrection.
so your Holy Spirit baptism has you at the bottom of something, never emerging in His resurrection.

no, Holy Spirit Baptism was for the infallibly gifted and inspired prophets and apostles who with the Lord laid the foundation of the new church.
PENTECOST. it already happened. it won't happen again.

they were Baptized; overwhelmed by the Spirit - the POWER FROM ON HIGH....for an important JOB.

they were ALSO baptized by water.
...

this is not how it works today.

but some folks just can't grasp this.

it's easy:

repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and THEN, AFTER THOSE THINGS, and receive the Holy Spirit (this is NOT being "Baptized in the Holy Ghost").

i fear some people are going to be very surprised on that Day.

Luke 6:46
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

James 1:22
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says

Matthew 7:24
"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inb the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

if you insist on denying we are to make disciples, baptize them, and teach them what Jesus said, at least please stop teaching that to others.

Acts 10:48
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

So you are not Holy Ghost filled? did I read this correctly?

 

[4enlightment]

does anyone have a problem with following commandments?

does anyone believe that it is a sin not to follow commandment?

does anyone believe that sin separates us from GOD?

does anyone believe that when JESUS said go and baptise and when Peter (who was given the keys of heaven) acts 2:38 that these were commandment?

It is necessary to do what ever GOD ask us to do and if we don't it is sin, and that sin will keep you from heaven. disobedience is sin.

Yes, but can anyone accept His commands.

Matthew 5:44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,