examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

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K

kenisyes

Guest
awesome Ken...thank you.
but there was no proof Our Lord was involved.
only that certain parts of the brain light up.
the study also said:
i wonder if we have identical studies on pagan peoples who practice the same thing?
prolly.
True, but when scientists get involved in religious opinions, we tend to discredit their work as being biased.

Yes, there are studies of non-Christians, and yes, the effect is pretty much the same. But we should not let that discredit the practice of tongues. Satanists have a eucharist, and it does not stop us from doing it.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Just curious about this IS there any where recorded in the Bible that when angels spoke to men that the men COULD NOT understand them? Or is it recorded that every time the men could understand what the angels said?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Just curious about this IS there any where recorded in the Bible that when angels spoke to men that the men COULD NOT understand them? Or is it recorded that every time the men could understand what the angels said?
not that i know of.
and when God spoke to men they understood Him also.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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True, but when scientists get involved in religious opinions, we tend to discredit their work as being biased.

Yes, there are studies of non-Christians, and yes, the effect is pretty much the same. But we should not let that discredit the practice of tongues. Satanists have a eucharist, and it does not stop us from doing it.
i could turn all that around but i won't.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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not that i know of.
and when God spoke to men they understood Him also.
God understanding and speaking all known languages should be expected He is God after all. :)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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You don't think God's Spirit was alive and well in the "peons" - (least of these)?
I tell you it was, as they are the ones who would cry out to Him from the bottom of their souls anyway.
Not the kings,....not the popes,....not the lord's.
- Just the surfs, (and only some of them at that).

Jesus was born in a manger, and He refused to answer the King of His day,-(Herod).
Ever wondered why some of the last will be first, and the first will be last?

As for your question on tongues it has been answered by the Bible.
It is a gift that was never taken away. As God's gifts are without repentance.
i like this post.
except the part where you tryin to make the gifts Paul said would cease and did ...not cease.
plus tryin' to make glossolalia languages like in Acts 2 *wink* < Jews at Jerusalem.

tongues t'was a signeth for jewesths or summink
 
Sep 8, 2012
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O, Timothy...why Paul didn't tell you about prayer language or whatever?

(He did, "remember to use the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." - I Timothy 4:14)
I Timothy 1:14 sounds like what you said Paul was supposed to say to Timothy.

Again: "neglect not to use the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." - I Timothy 4:14)
[h=3][/h]
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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God understanding and speaking all known languages should be expected He is God after all. :)
specially since He instituted many at Babel.
so they couldn't come together as ONE and do stuff He didn't like.

like....charismatic renewal crossing all boundaries.
why catholics and protestants having the same "gifts"?
why Benny Hinn get a gift?

nah
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I Timothy 1:14 sounds like what you said Paul was supposed to say to Timothy.

Again: "neglect not to use the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." - I Timothy 4:14)
[h=3][/h]
right.
the gift of:

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers

Paul passed on the office of pastor and teacher to Timothy.
Paul has the Authority to do so.

pres·by·ter·y [prez-bi-ter-ee, pres-] Show IPA
noun, plural pres·by·ter·ies.
1.
a body of presbyters or elders.
2.
(in Presbyterian churches) an ecclesiastical court consisting of all the ministers and one or two presbyters from each congregation in a district.
3.
the churches under the jurisdiction of a presbytery.
4.
the part of a church appropriated to the clergy.

plus he left him with a tummy ache which i don't get if the gifts (Paul could heal and raise the dead) were without ceasing


unless you believe in Apostolic Succession like Rome and EO....dat was dat.
foundation laid.
 
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Dec 26, 2012
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specially since He instituted many at Babel.
so they couldn't come together as ONE and do stuff He didn't like.

like....charismatic renewal crossing all boundaries.
why catholics and protestants having the same "gifts"?
why Benny Hinn get a gift?

nah
Or those saying they have the gift,change denomination and then start praying to the archangel Michael. (Still have to wonder about that summink doesn't seem right there) :p
 
L

livingepistle

Guest
The following commentary addresses much of what I would offer on this subject:

The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the day of Pentecost inActs 2:1-4. The apostles went out and shared the gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages: “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” (Acts 2:11). The Greek word translated tongues literally means “languages.” Therefore, the gift of tongues is speaking in a language a person does not know in order to minister to someone who does speak that language.

In 1 Corinthians chapters 12–14, Paul discusses miraculous gifts, saying, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?” (1 Corinthians 14:6). According to the apostle Paul, and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts, speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God’s message in his or her own language, but it is useless to everyone else unless it is interpreted/translated.

A person with the gift of interpreting tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30) could understand what a tongues-speaker was saying even though he did not know the language that was being spoken. The tongues interpreter would then communicate the message of the tongues speaker to everyone else, so all could understand. “For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says” (1 Corinthians 14:13). Paul’s conclusion regarding tongues that were not interpreted is powerful: “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue” (1 Corinthians 14:19).

Is the gift of tongues for today? First Corinthians 13:8mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the “perfect” in1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the tense of the Greek verbs referring to prophecy and knowledge “ceasing” and that of tongues “being ceased” as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the “perfect.” While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11andJoel 2:28-29as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. First Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a “sign to unbelievers.” According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.

At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command God gave through the apostle Paul, “If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God” (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in accordance with1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him or her to communicate with a person who speaks another language. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in the dispersion of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they did not have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this. Tongues does not seem to occur today in the manner it did in the New Testament, despite the fact that it would be immensely useful. The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today."
By: S. Michael Houdmann


1Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: [19] Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


I will submit a second post concerning a historical report of a group of Christian skeptics that decided to address the issue of "Speaking in Tongues". The report states that they also committed themselves to fasting, prayer, and waiting in similar fashion as the members of the First Century Church when the gift of the Holy Spirit was first given with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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right.
the gift of:

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers

Paul passed on the office of pastor and teacher to Timothy.
Paul has the Authority to do so.

pres·by·ter·y [prez-bi-ter-ee, pres-] Show IPA
noun, plural pres·by·ter·ies.
1.
a body of presbyters or elders.
2.
(in Presbyterian churches) an ecclesiastical court consisting of all the ministers and one or two presbyters from each congregation in a district.
3.
the churches under the jurisdiction of a presbytery.
4.
the part of a church appropriated to the clergy.

plus he left him with a tummy ache which i don't get of the gifts were without ceasing


unless you believe in Apostolic Succession like Rome and EO....dat was dat.
foundation laid.
Are you saying that ordination came from "Laying on of hands"?
It wasn't just Paul (the Apostle) laying his holy unstained hands on Timothy.
So the idea it was something he conferred onto Timothy is right out because the whole presbytery put their hands on him.
You are saying that ordination took the laying on of hands?

If it was a conferring of apostolic power only Paul would have laid his hands on him, (since he was the only apostle present).
No, the whole presbytery did.
Thus the "GIFT GIVEN THEE".
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Are you saying that ordination came from "Laying on of hands"?
It wasn't just Paul (the Apostle) laying his holy unstained hands on Timothy.
So the idea it was something he conferred onto Timothy is right out because the whole presbytery put their hands on him.
You are saying that ordination took the laying on of hands?

If it was a conferring of apostolic power only Paul would have laid his hands on him, (since he was the only apostle present).
No, the whole presbytery did.
Thus the "GIFT GIVEN THEE".
okay Rick...what Gift did they lay hands on Timothy and impart?
tongues?
where does it say that?

the whole presbytery still included persons who had seen the Christ and the resurrected Christ.
the whole presbytery at that time was still the First disciples.

they had Direct Authority. given to the Apostles by Christ, then the Apostles convened the councils.
Jesus gave them the keys to do so.
 
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A

Abiding

Guest
I think Pentecost had more miracles than just the tongues
Then how is it that "each of us" hears "them" in our native language?

Imagine a bunch of men speaking different languages at one time
to a large crowd....you wouldnt be able to make out a thing.
I cant even hear my three grandchildren at the same time.
u can count on me for trivia.:cool:
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I Timothy 1:14 sounds like what you said Paul was supposed to say to Timothy.

Again: "neglect not to use the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." - I Timothy 4:14)
can we please use context Rickster?
it makes it easier:

HOLY SPIRIT INFALLIBLY INSPIRED PAUL SPEAKING:

1 Timothy 4
1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

6If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters,a you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

11Command and teach these things. 12Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. 14Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

15Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. 16Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.


Timothy was ordained a pastor and teacher.
it's pretty clear there, right?
 
Sep 8, 2012
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okay Rick...what Gift did they lay hands on Timothy and impart?
tongues?
where does it say that?
It is the Gift WITHIN him.

Not outward ordination that only an outward apostle working in the outward ordinations could give.
(This idea of handing down ordinations from man to man is big in the romance religions B.T.W.; -
Eastern Ortho., Roman Cath., Anglican.)

What is the gift within?

What is the ordination without?

The gift is the power of the Holy Spirit.

How can you neglect something if it is not already inside you?
Was Timothy going to show them a scroll with Paul's and the presbyteries signatures on it?-
-(Remember that parchment, show them I really vouch for you!)
 
U

unclefester

Guest
are you suggesting he was boasting he spoke more kinds of secret prayer language than them all?
No.
I'm pointing out that he was telling them not to forbid speaking in their angelic prayer language, after he had just told them it was better to prophecy in the assembly.

how many kinds are there?
One angelic language.

There are many verses in Revelations and otherwise where we are told and can read of the angels in heaven worshipping God. Many. Interestingly enough Rick, there is not one instance where it is said or shown to be in a heavenly "angelic language". Not once. Given that you've expressed that there is in fact one "angelic language", I have to ask the following : Do all angels, both those remaining in God's presence and those who were cast out of heaven for their rebellion speak the same angelic language ? How does the fact that many angels were cast out of heaven for rebelling against God fit into this angelic language thingy you believe and adhere to ? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

*** Red print are Rick's replies
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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c
11Command and teach these things. 12Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. 14Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.
why we find it so hard to cast our minds back by reading the historical record and seeing that the GIFTS (which were MEN) were being given, as the foundation was laid. we already saw that - Jesus gave apostle, prophets, etc....MEN.

they received through PROPHECY that Timothy was to be ordained as a TEACHER.
so they laid hands on him and consecrated him accordingly.

are you saying they laid their hands on him and he received the Holy Spirit?
is that really the way Paul would have said it?
like Timothy wasn't already saved?
look at the verse JUST prior to it.

no, the gift of teacher for Timothy, was received by the elders through prophecy (Timothy shall be a teacher).
the laying on of hands wasn't something they did?
yes it was.

Acts 13
Barnabas and Saul Sent Off

1Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,a Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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There are many verses in Revelations and otherwise where we are told and can read of the angels in heaven worshipping God. Many. Interestingly enough Rick, there is not one instance where it is said or shown to be in a heavenly "angelic language". Not once. Given that you've expressed that there is in fact one "angelic language", I have to ask the following : Do all angels, both those remaining in God's presence and those who were cast out of heaven for their rebellion speak the same angelic language ? How does the fact that many angels were cast out of heaven for rebelling against God fit into this angelic language thingy you believe and adhere to ? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

*** Red print are Rick's replies
I said in another thread there must be different dialects.
Since the fallen angels were apart from God so long.
Kind of like the King's English vs. Appalachian.

But besides the non sequitur there is infact a reference (at least one) to men speaking with the tongues of angels: I Corinthians 13:1.
"Though I speak with the tongues of angels" - Paul
Another - "Building yourself up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost"
 
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