examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

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HeraldtheNews

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Apr 26, 2012
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Don't have the quotes handy, maybe someone could look them up? The Apostle Paul spoke about speaking in tongues as being a valid spiritual gift in its proper place, i.e., not being made into an idol or anything that takes God's rightful sovereign place in the Church. As we know, sadly, this can be anything including music, emotionalism, ritual, exclusiveness social club mentality (i.e., unless you are perfect and socially approved you can't be in our "Christian club," especially if, God forbid, you have any bondage or oppression issues). And if you are single, you are delegated to the lowest social caste of the Church, and if you are a single male, you are sent to the Church leper colony and watched with suspicion. If you happen to have a mental illness, you are sent to beg outside the gates of the leper colony. Jesus did not do this, sorry. He reached out to all of these people, ESPECIALLY them. The issue is not speaking in tongues, it is as that new book talks about being a "fan of Jesus" in the cheering squad until we are called to actually truly be Christ-like. It's a great book btw, "Not A Fan."
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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There is a misunderstanding here. In biblical history, church leaders have done this when God wanted them to do it. No one has said or is saying that they are doing it in apostolic authority. I am saying that I cannot of my own initiative pick and choose who will be baptized in the Spirit and who won't. As in all of the gifts, no work of the Spirit can be performed unless you are Spirit led to do it. If somebody comes up front in my church during the altar call, and they want to be prayed for for healing, I will agree with them for their healing. But I cannot say "be healed" as an authoritative utterance unless the Spirit is leading me to do so. This is what the Bible is talking about throughout Paul's writings about being led by the Spirit. I don't claim the authority. Christ is the head of the church. He has the authority. When the Spirit leads, the gift and power can be manifested. Not till then.
how many gifts do you have Stephen?
which ones?

so you are claiming to be able to - or that God does through you - impart the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.
right?
 

HeraldtheNews

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you asked for credible prophecy-- prophetic dreams: dreams 25 years ago or so of high buildings collapsing and total panic running away; dream of the return of Christ-- the expectation grew like yeast, then one day He appeared in the sky and all people turned involuntarily to face Him-- even burial skulls...
 
Sep 4, 2012
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plus i'm still waiting to find out who is an authoritative prophet today.
so far either no answer; i can't know because i'd just be a naysayer; the ones posted in vids all have errors...etc.
Define authoritative prophet, please. Just so we'll know in case we see one. :)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I am surprised that you skipped over Matthew, For it is the most quoted and most complete version of Jesus telling his disciples of the great commission.

Matthew 28:16-20 [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [SUP]20 [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit was not limited to the apostles. Teaching about it was not limited to the apostles. Teaching the church should have it was not limited to the apostles. "These signs shall follow them that believe" was not limited to the apostles. If a mature,faith-believing, honest, and loving Christian were to ask God for everything He has for them to build the church, would that be an improper prayer? Would such a mature, committed Christian be easily swayed by the devil? Would God allow a mature Christian to be swayed by an imposter posing as the Holy Spirit? Every single one of you that tell about what they went through in your deception were baby Christians at that time it happened. Babes can easily be deceived. When a baby is burned, from that day forward they will never touch a hot stove again. They become scared of it. They fear it. The same thing happens to baby Christians. To some, it's so bad that they leave church never to return. Others will go to a church where it's more comfortable, where there's nothing to fear. Many will stay in that comfort zone the rest of their lives.

so, for you:

baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

means imparting the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, right?

Would God allow a mature Christian to be swayed by an imposter posing as the Holy Spirit?

ask some who have left the movement.
some have already posted.

When a baby is burned, from that day forward they will never touch a hot stove again. They become scared of it. They fear it. The same thing happens to baby Christians. To some, it's so bad that they leave church never to return. Others will go to a church where it's more comfortable, where there's nothing to fear. Many will stay in that comfort zone the rest of their lives.

right.

all the babies who got burned by the actual miraculous gifts poured out at Pentecost - the same powers the Apostles had - went to a Charismatic gathering and heard The Gospel in their own languages; the crippled rose from their mats and leaped; the blind from birth were seeing....but those babies got burned, ran off and went to Safe Baby Church, never to return because they are scared of The Holy Spirit.





 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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you asked for credible prophecy-- prophetic dreams: dreams 25 years ago or so of high buildings collapsing and total panic running away; dream of the return of Christ-- the expectation grew like yeast, then one day He appeared in the sky and all people turned involuntarily to face Him-- even burial skulls...
hello:)

thank you.

but was it a prophetic dream?
because we know Jesus will be returning and it will be dramatic.

was it the buildings collapsing part that was prophecy?
which buildings were they?

zone
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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"These signs shall follow them that believe" was not limited to the apostles.
in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.

we KNOW the disciples did these things.
i know it's not popular or is somehow dishonoring, but may i PLEASE see proof that you are doing all those things - exactly like the Apostles did?

we have the record in Scripture to compare.

new tongues is human languages.
we all agree on the per Acts 2, right?

so we are going only now on the angelic tongue.
i guess.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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I am not sure that the question is coming across clearly. Someone speaks in "tongues",how does that person before he or she even opens their mouth,tests that spirit to know if it is of the Lord or not? Two if one is speaking in "tongues" how does the person speaking know if they are praising God or cursing Jesus? Once the words are spoken it's a bit late at that point so to speak for the person speaking to test it so how does one test that spirit even before the words are spoken?
All we need to know about tongues is in scripture particularly 1 Cor. 12-14 and the records in Acts. In scripture, is there any record of anyone cursing Jesus when speaking in tongues?
 

zone

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Jun 13, 2010
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Define authoritative prophet, please. Just so we'll know in case we see one. :)
well, i guess since the prophets were subject to the prophets; and the prophets were ultimately subject to the Apostles (who were all also prophets - receiving ongoing and real time revelation from God)...whatever the prophet is prophesying should be on par with Scripture and should be added to it.

right?

if God is speaking through prophets today, they are equal to Scripture.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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All we need to know about tongues is in scripture particularly 1 Cor. 12-14 and the records in Acts. In scripture, is there any record of anyone cursing Jesus when speaking in tongues?
not that i know of.
the fact it was brought up means it might have been happening or they may have been worried about it.
we don't know.

but tongues was actual human languages.

how can tongues-speakers today ever know if they are cursing Jesus?
or maybe even just muttering nothings.
dunno.

makes zero sense and is in conflict with the Bible, sooooo
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
Not understanding...are you saying when you pray in tongues, your understanding of God is improved? 1 Cor 14:14
What do you mean by "slant"? are you saying you experience something that makes you change prayer direction?

It seems like your saying that your praying in tongues causes a domino effect...which would
mean that those who dont pray in tongues would not receive as much from their prayer.
Which if that were true....would bring up several biblical issues.
I would not necessarily say "improved". Many times, when I stop thinking about what I should pray about next, and just start in tongues, ideas I think I would not have thought of jump into my head. These more often than not, prove to be the ones I need to minister to the person with whom I am praying. It can happen without tongues, and happens to me without tongues. I was offering this only as a way to verify that the tongues are from God - they produce worthwhile fruit. i am not implying that tongues are needed for anything.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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how?
that still hasn't been answered. has it?
it seems like we take tongue-speakers' word for what is right or wrong (and they disagree pretty much).
:confused:
Zone,

One of the things I didn't heard was this

Acts 2

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.7 Utterly amazed,they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b]10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

It shouldn't be about us it should be about Him and what He has done. A lot of it seemed to be shallow type stuff,ie: "God knows the struggle you are going through,He loves you and will see you through." It seemed to be mostly generalities.

Some of it when they say that it is from God we can line it up against scripture. When it's shallow it's much more difficult and can take longer before one can start catching the errors.

Again I have no problem with the fact God can DO IT,the question still comes down to is He STILL doing it or did He tell us it would end,and that itself should tell us if it is from Him or not?




 
K

kenisyes

Guest
Maybe I'm not seeing this right but I also know that when one talks to another person about Jesus we need to define which Jesus we are talking about. Are they talking about Jesus of Nazareth,the Christ or are they talking about a different Jesus?
If one doesn't ask the right questions then can one be sure the two of you are talking about the same Jesus? If those questions aren't asked then is the other person talking about the JW,the Mormon,the good teacher,good example or the Santa,Jesus? It seems to me that asking the right questions about the source first makes more sense then finding out later we have gone off half cocked and wind up in a place we do not want to be.

And can anyone name one prophet of God that really wanted to be a prophet? I know the New Testament says to desire that gift but who in their so called "right mind" really wants that? I think the Old Testament prophets realized what it really meant. to be a prophet.
Let me try to give you a better answer, Sarah:

Parable: Johnny obviously had musical talent. Even from age 3, he would sit at the piano in the family room, making up songs. One day, when Johnny was 5, his father held a "consolation gathering" for 85 year old Aunt Rose. Rose had lost her husband exactly one year ago that day, and had been sad ever since. As the adults sipped tea in the dining room, Johnny pounded away in the music room. A particular melody grabbed Johnny's fascination, and he played it over and over, louder each time. Suddeny, Rose dropped her tea, and made it to the music room as fast as her legs would allow. She stood in the doorway crying, exclaiming "He's only five, how could he know the song my husband and I courted to 65 years ago?" This had a profound effect on Johnny, and he often asked his parents about it for years to come.
Ending A. Johnny is now a PhD psychologist, who teaches and researches about channeling reincarnated spirits through music.
Ending B. Johnny is now a bereavement counsellor, and has helped countless people deal with grief over loss. In his spare time, he plays old songs on the piano at retirement homes, where the residents take much joy in feeling like children singing along with the songs they grew up with.

Questions:
1. What happened when Johnny was 5? Was it reincarnation? Channeling? ESP? Coincidence? Or did Aunt Rose just hear what she wanted to hear? Was it God? Was it satan?
2. When Johnny asked about it, what did his parents say that made Johnny choose either ending A of ending B as his life story.

The interpretation: Musical talent is like the groans that cannot be expressed in speech in Rom. 8. The piano is like the human speech apparatus. It is a collection of gadgets that give expression to musical talent. Babbling is like hitting keys at random. Tongues is a real melody (the words for the music are the interpreter's ministry). Just like real life, not everyone can play piano, even if they have musical talent. Aunt Rose is like the people at Pentecost outside the upper room. Ending A is many of the ministers we are seeing on these youtube videos, whose job is is to prove something regardless if is consistent with the word of God or not. Ending B is the millions of followers of Jesus, who try to use their tongues to build the Body. Question 1 is the subject of many threads at CC, and clearly Zone and I do not agree on the answer. Question 2 is the key question, because Johnny's parents are every pastor whose young sheep think/have/want the gift of tongues.

In 40+ years, I have heard only three kinds of tongues. This is very subjective, and I suspect others will disagree, but here is how I separate them:
Real tongues feels buoyant, uplifiting, exciting.
Mimicked tongues feels scrubbed-down sterile, devoid of purpose.
Demonic tongues makes my spine crawl, and makes my adrenoline pump, because my wife and I have to deal with them on several occasions.

And to your final question. Neither I nor my wife cared if we ever got tongues. When God gave it, we took it.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
hi Ken
how are WE (cessationist leaning) supposed to know which is which.
first you are certain you have the gift, then you're pretty sure what is in the vids is "a poor copy of the group prayer in tongues that was practiced in the early Cath. Charismatic renewal" - whatever that means.

what does that mean?
I just posted an answer to Sarah. Just wanted to let you know I saw it.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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well, i guess since the prophets were subject to the prophets; and the prophets were ultimately subject to the Apostles (who were all also prophets - receiving ongoing and real time revelation from God)...whatever the prophet is prophesying should be on par with Scripture and should be added to it.
right?
if God is speaking through prophets today, they are equal to Scripture.
I'm not so sure about the adding to scripture part. That obviously happened in OT times.

However, Agabus was a NT prophet, and all that we know about him is that he prophesied to Paul that he would be bound if he went to Jerusalem. I'm sure there were other prophets we don't know about.

Perhaps the adding to scripture part isn't a necessary part of the plan anymore.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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All we need to know about tongues is in scripture particularly 1 Cor. 12-14 and the records in Acts. In scripture, is there any record of anyone cursing Jesus when speaking in tongues?
1 Corinthians 12

12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Paul is very clear that if one is not speaking by the Spirit of God that yes is it possible. Paul is stating both sides of the coin. So it comes down to HOW do you test that spirit to know that it is either a demon or the Holy Spirit?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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In 40+ years, I have heard only three kinds of tongues. This is very subjective, and I suspect others will disagree, but here is how I separate them:

Real tongues feels buoyant, uplifiting, exciting.
Mimicked tongues feels scrubbed-down sterile, devoid of purpose.
Demonic tongues makes my spine crawl, and makes my adrenoline pump, because my wife and I have to deal with them on several occasions.
i read all of your post Ken, but can't fairly comment on the parable, since it is also subjective, and is begging the question somewhat.

but SURE appreciate your integrity in telling how you discern what is authentic (as far as you know) and what is not.

love zone
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I'm not so sure about the adding to scripture part. That obviously happened in OT times.

However, Agabus was a NT prophet, and all that we know about him is that he prophesied to Paul that he would be bound if he went to Jerusalem. I'm sure there were other prophets we don't know about.

Perhaps the adding to scripture part isn't a necessary part of the plan anymore.
but what Agabus said was recorded, and it was to and for an Apostle.

i'm sure there were prophecies given that weren't recorded - just as John said Jesus did many other things that were not recorded. the prophets revealed new information from God , the pertinent parts are surely recorded for us, through the writings we have.

is Scripture sufficient or not? that's really the question. and infallible. can prophets be fallible?

we don't claim He is speaking directly to men as they walked speaking with Him then, do we? as he did with John?
does anyone here claim to have seen Jesus and receive information from Him?

if we aren't to add to Scripture - is there a NEW parallel set of directives and NEW doctrines we need to know about?

who are the prophets and what are they saying because if God really is speaking in real time First Person to us today - I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE IS SAYING TO THE CHURCH.

but, i MUST be allowed to test it.

my spiritual health depends upon it.
and my fidelity.
 
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Dec 26, 2012
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In 40+ years, I have heard only three kinds of tongues. This is very subjective, and I suspect others will disagree, but here is how I separate them:
Real tongues feels buoyant, uplifiting, exciting.
Mimicked tongues feels scrubbed-down sterile, devoid of purpose.
Demonic tongues makes my spine crawl, and makes my adrenoline pump, because my wife and I have to deal with them on several occasions.

And to your final question. Neither I nor my wife cared if we ever got tongues. When God gave it, we took it.
Sorry Ken,

I can't agree with you. Remember Satan can transform himself into an angel of light. People do all kinds of crazy things because it makes them feel uplifted and it seems exciting. (Just ask people after a great drug high or you have some get really pumped from some sports thingy) That in and of itself can not be the test to determine where it comes from,it's too subjective.

My sister was also a witch,and even though she was a witch,it didn't make my skin crawl. (I didn't find out she was a witch till later so....) Again subjective.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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1 Corinthians 12:3a Wherefore I give you to understand that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

1 Corinthians 14:14,15 For if I pray in an tongue my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

"speaking by the Spirit of God" = "my spirit prayeth" = "pray with the spirit" = speaking in tongues


I still can't see any conflict with the Bible/scripture concerning any of the manifestations?:confused: