examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

[RickShafer]

Well I don't have the actual letters that Paul wrote so the English translations will need to suffice and I trust they are reasonably accurate.
The whole of Paul's writing to the church at Corinth was one of correction in any language. What I wrote I wrote based on the passages to which you refer me.
Do not confuse biblical doctrine with denominational doctrine. I would encourage you to not trust emotion and feeling at the expense of sound biblical doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Please read then.
Then you will see the sound biblical doctrine of the gifts completely covered in I Corinthians 12 and 14.
English does suffice.

 

[zone]

Please read then.
Then you will see the sound biblical doctrine of the gifts completely covered in I Corinthians 12 and 14.
English does suffice.

yep. and they ceased. just as planned.
the WORD was always intended to be the final authority.

IS IT?

 

[RickShafer]

yep. and they ceased. just as planned.
the WORD was always intended to be the final authority.

IS IT?

More speaking from your head zone.
Please read I Corinthians 12 and 14.
Then tell me when the gift of faith ceased? (To another faith by the same spirit.....) - I Cor.12:9pp

 

[Abiding]

More speaking from your head zone.
Please read I Corinthians 12 and 14.
Then tell me when the gift of faith ceased? (To another faith by the same spirit.....) - I Cor.12:9pp

The gift of faith...is not the same as faith, or the fruit of faith...so that arguement is a fail.
faith is just that, faith...the gift of faith is a supernatural amount of it divinely influenced by God.
In otherwords if the "gift" of faith wasnt available there still would be faith, and faith as a fruit.
Im not saying the gift of faith isnt available...just saying bad logic or arguement

 

[RickShafer]

The gift of faith...is not the same as faith, or the fruit of faith...so that arguement is a fail.
faith is just that, faith...the gift of faith is a supernatural amount of it divinely influenced by God.(more faith...like Benny Hinn)
In otherwords if the "gift" of faith wasnt available there still would be faith, and faith as a fruit.
Im not saying the gift of faith isnt available...just saying bad logic or arguement(Unless you are promoting hyper faith your argument fails.....is that what you are promoting?)

Again, another reasoner using circular logic.
Please reread what you posted and clean it up then get back to me.

 

[Abiding]

How do you see that they were "different"?

I can see that the tongues in Acts 2 were "different" than in Corinth because of the miraculous fact that the tongues God gave the disciples were the tongues of the people present to show His power working through these men via the gift of holy spirit by giving them the language of those present. The gift of the holy spirit is the same gift. . . the nine manifestations are the same. . . Corinthians is a book of correction addressed to the church at Corinth and to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. . .which would be us - to get them back on the right track when utilizing the manifestations.

In each recorded instance of people being born again in Acts, they spoke in tongues. Acts 10:45,46 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the holy spirit. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us. . . 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the holy spirit came upon them; and they spake with tongues and prophesied. . .

Of course, if every instance of a person being born again and operating the manifestation of speaking in tongues were recorded. . .the Bible would be too big to even carry around with us!!! Just as if every thing which Jesus Christ did were recorded the world itself could not contain the books that should be written!!!!

very true...but tell me something......"if" as you imply so many spoke in tongues when they were bornagain
(now i think this was for a definite purpose as you mentioned 11:16;19:6) and you rekon that this was normal
SOP not recorded for book size requirements.....why does it not happen today? Ive never shared the gospel
with anyone that broke out in tongues or prophecied? ive also been to large arenas where the gospel was preached
and didnt see it there either....nor in churches....never seen it happen.

 

[Abiding]

Again, another reasoner using circular logic.
Please reread what you posted and clean it up then get back to me.

Huh? not my fault if your brain is going in circles.
why would i want to "get back to you"?

The bad logic was in you saying that faith would not be here unless
all the gifts were also(unless i misunderstood you)

Me thinks you should aim, steady, before you pull the trigger

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

yep. and they ceased. just as planned.
the WORD was always intended to be the final authority.

IS IT?

No it isn't. The spirit bearing witness with the word is.

 

[RickShafer]

Huh? not my fault if your brain is going in circles.
why would i want to "get back to you"?

The bad logic was in you saying that faith would not be here unless
all the gifts were also(unless i misunderstood you)

Me thinks you should aim, steady, before you pull the trigger

So you are claiming hyper faith.
That's the only place you can go.
Just admit you are claiming a special gift of faith that works miracles.
Oh...that would be another gift, the working of miracles.(v.10)
What are you claiming? Just so I know.

 

[Abiding]

So you are claiming hyper faith.
That's the only place you can go.
Just admit you are claiming a special gift of faith that works miracles.
Oh...that would be another gift, the working of miracles.(v.10)
What are you claiming? Just so I know.

What are you even talking about?
Ive made statements not claims.

 

[notuptome]

Please read then.
Then you will see the sound biblical doctrine of the gifts completely covered in I Corinthians 12 and 14.
English does suffice.

I have read them. I do see the matter dealt with biblically. What I do not see is biblically correct doctrine reflected in what those who claim to practice the gifts save for the disorder and outright disobedience.
The OP is seeking some kind of testimony of the gifts operating in harmony with what the bible teaches. The question is that if the Holy Spirit is at work then it must be the same Holy Spirit by which all men are regenerated per Titus 3:5. If it is the same Holy Spirit why are we faced with two divergent doctrines? The Holy Spirit can only testify to the truth and that as revealed in God's word which is the bible. Can we find understanding or must we face only emotion?
Faith does not come from seeing. Faith comes from hearing and hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickShafer]

What are you even talking about?
Ive made statements not claims.

Statements Are Claims.
You've made claims.

 

[RickShafer]

I have read them. I do see the matter dealt with biblically. What I do not see is biblically correct doctrine reflected in what those who claim to practice the gifts save for the disorder and outright disobedience. (what disorder? Where are the gifts disobedient?)
The OP is seeking some kind of testimony of the gifts operating in harmony with what the bible teaches. The question is that if the Holy Spirit is at work then it must be the same Holy Spirit by which all men are regenerated per Titus 3:5. If it is the same Holy Spirit why are we faced with two divergent doctrines? (Are you kidding? There are something like 2200 denominations)The Holy Spirit can only testify to the truth and that as revealed in God's word which is the bible. Can we find understanding or must we face only emotion? (We can if we read, the continual rant of emotionalism on your part, when I have shown you where in the Word to look is quite tiresome)
Faith does not come from seeing. Faith comes from hearing and hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17. (Faith is belief, and not simply belief; but believing what God said in His Holy Writ) - Read, react, and respond to it.
- Or a simple commentary would do: (vis-a-vis showing the verses that support your contention that the gifts are vanquished)

 

[Abiding]

Statements Are Claims.
You've made claims.

do tell....what post did i make any claims.

 

[RickShafer]

Let me look it up;..........Oh, here it is:

The gift of faith...is not the same as faith, or the fruit of faith...so that arguement is a fail.
faith is just that, faith...the gift of faith is a supernatural amount of it divinely influenced by God.
In otherwords if the "gift" of faith wasnt available there still would be faith, and faith as a fruit.
Im not saying the gift of faith isnt available...just saying bad logic or arguement

I don't know,.....might have got a few claims there.
Care to elaborate on your claims of two kinds of faith?

 

[jinx]

zone,

I'd give you my two cents on this topic, but you already know my thoughts on it LOL.

Have you gotten ANY answers yet? last time I read you was convinced more than ever that it was all done away with.

I try and read the thread now and I get lost so I just go to another thread.

 

[notuptome]

(what disorder? Where are the gifts disobedient?)

Paul rebukes the church at Corinth when he says God is not the Author of confusion. Tongues if they are done must be done decently and in order. None speaking out of turn and only with an interpreter present. Also must be for the benefit of unsaved Jews in the congregation. 1 Cor 14:22, 27, 33

? (Are you kidding? There are something like 2200 denominations)

Didn't ask about 220o denominations. Asked about those who claim to speak in tongues or even the other sign gifts of 1 Cor 12-14

(We can if we read, the continual rant of emotionalism on your part, when I have shown you where in the Word to look is quite tiresome)

So far all you have demonstrated is that you cannot make your position from specific scriptures. It's in the bible is not convincing.

(Faith is belief, and not simply belief; but believing what God said in His Holy Writ) - Read, react, and respond to it.
- Or a simple commentary would do: (vis-a-vis showing the verses that support your contention that the gifts are vanquished)

Vanity, emptiness.
1 Cor 13:8 Tongues shall cease. 1 Cor 1:22 The Jews require a sign. Tongues are a sign for Jews not gentiles. How many unsaved Jews were in your services the last time someone claimed to speak in tongues? Do you know what tongues represent to the Jew? Why did God choose tongues as a sign for Jews? 1 Cor 14:21-22, Isa 28:11-12

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickShafer]

notuptome - black RickShafer-Red

[/COLOR]
Paul rebukes the church at Corinth when he says God is not the Author of confusion. Tongues if they are done must be done decently and in order. None speaking out of turn and only with an interpreter present. Also must be for the benefit of unsaved Jews in the congregation. 1 Cor 14:22, 27, 33(Not a mention of Jew or any other special class in any of those passages)
[/COLOR]
Didn't ask about 220o denominations. Asked about those who claim to speak in tongues or even the other sign gifts of 1 Cor 12-14[/COLOR](no, you said there were two divergent views, I pointed out that they were many more)
So far all you have demonstrated is that you cannot make your position from specific scriptures. It's in the bible is not convincing.(read post #159, since you obviously haven't I will repost it for you)
Vanity, emptiness. (...................)
1 Cor 13:8 Tongues shall cease.(Here is the whole verse in context - "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." -So what you are saying is that tongues ceased with knowledge????)
1 Cor 1:22 The Jews require a sign. Here is what it actually says- ("For after that in the widom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;") - How you get tongues being only for a sign out of that is a real quandary.
Tongues are a sign for Jews not gentiles.(Well obviously...you have proved it so well!)
How many unsaved Jews were in your services the last time someone claimed to speak in tongues? Do you know what tongues represent to the Jew? Why did God choose tongues as a sign for Jews? 1 Cor 14:21-22, Isa 28:11-12(He didn't,
you fabricated it out of whole cloth)
I Cor. 14:21-22:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”[SUP][a][/SUP]

says the Lord.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

Isa. 28:11-12:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom He said, “This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,”
And, “This is the refreshing”;
Yet they would not hear.

(This is speaking about those who would deny the gifts, it would be nice to pass it off on a certain group of people in the past, but it is explicitly speaking about those who deny the gifts)

 

[RickShafer]

(all Rick Shafer)

Now, This is what Paul said, (not me); Paul :

I Corinthians 14

:2 "For He that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not to men, but to God: for no man understands him; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries."

:14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth,but my understanding is unfruitful."

:15 "WHAT IS IT THEN? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:

I will sing with the spirit,and I will sing with the understanding also." - (Notice the juxtaposition of spirit and rational mind)

:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

:17 For thou verily giveth thanks well, but the other is not edified.

: 18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. (More contrast between praying in the spirit and praying with understanding)

:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children(slow to hate), but in understanding be men.(grasp it!)

:21 In the law it is written, With other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that they will not hear me, saith the Lord. (reference to Isa. 28:11,12)

 

[GreenNnice]

notuptome - black RickShafer-Red

Paul rebukes the church at Corinth when he says God is not the Author of confusion. Tongues if they are done must be done decently and in order. None speaking out of turn and only with an interpreter present. Also must be for the benefit of unsaved Jews in the congregation. 1 Cor 14:22, 27, 33(Not a mention of Jew or any other special class in any of those passages)
[/COLOR]
Didn't ask about 220o denominations. Asked about those who claim to speak in tongues or even the other sign gifts of 1 Cor 12-14[/COLOR](no, you said there were two divergent views, I pointed out that they were many more)
So far all you have demonstrated is that you cannot make your position from specific scriptures. It's in the bible is not convincing.(read post #159, since you obviously haven't I will repost it for you)
Vanity, emptiness. (...................)
1 Cor 13:8 Tongues shall cease.(Here is the whole verse in context - "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." -So what you are saying is that tongues ceased with knowledge????)
1 Cor 1:22 The Jews require a sign. Here is what it actually says- ("For after that in the widom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;") - How you get tongues being only for a sign out of that is a real quandary.
Tongues are a sign for Jews not gentiles.(Well obviously...you have proved it so well!)
How many unsaved Jews were in your services the last time someone claimed to speak in tongues? Do you know what tongues represent to the Jew? Why did God choose tongues as a sign for Jews? 1 Cor 14:21-22, Isa 28:11-12(He didn't,
you fabricated it out of whole cloth)
I Cor. 14:21-22:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”[SUP][a][/SUP]

says the Lord.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

Isa. 28:11-12:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom He said, “This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,”
And, “This is the refreshing”;
Yet they would not hear.

(This is speaking about those who would deny the gifts, it would be nice to pass it off on a certain group of people in the past, but it is explicitly speaking about those who deny the gifts)

Cleaning it up for you, rickshafe Tongues have not ceased because knowledge has not ceased. That is pretty convincing, is it not, uptoHim