gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

[Wall]

Who has heard voice?

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, AND UNTO THY SEED, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

Honest Abe heard Gods "voice" and so he kept His commandments

JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Also Gods sheep hear His “voice”.

DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God. [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Cant do a song and dance around above scripture. It is truly Gods 10 commandments

HEBREWS 3 [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] While it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that THEY COULD NOT ENTER IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.

Scripture above (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - those that believed not - destroyed them)
Scripture below (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)

EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.

 

[crossnote]

So how did you attain this faith?

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Did you graduate from school? Even if you did

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Here is the line that should have been in CAPS...
25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[GreenNnice]

'Faith' is our schoolmaster now. By grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH.

No, crossnoted, the only words I see needing CAPS are: "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid;l yea, we establish the law."

Faith. Faith. Faith. I had this discussion with you and e.g. before, I guess, we need to have it again . The Lord leads


-------
school·mas·ter (sk

l

m

s

t

r)n.1. A man who is a teacher.

2. One who educates, guides, or instructs.

3. A grayish-brown snapper (Lutjanus apodus) of the tropical Atlantic and the Gulf of Mexico

 

[Wall]

Here is the line that should have been in CAPS...
25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Yeah, if that was the point I was trying to make. There is therefore no condemnation once in Christ. But "the many" claim there in the faith of Christ having never gone to the schoolmaster. Tried to take a short cut I suppose. But even if you were under the schoolmaster and have come to true faith in Christ.

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, whichshall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31]DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish thelaw.

 

[GreenNnice]

7But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[SUP]a[/SUP] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. Philipians 3: 7-11 . Hmm, why do I feel so much like having a slurpee now, I'm sooo thirsty suddenly

Why is it that 'faith' is so misunderstood in Scripture? It is the power of God unto faith worked through us that saves us, it's so plain Ephesians 2: 8, I just don't see how more plain our salvation, put in real terms OF FAITH could possibly be. Yes, His grace saves us, but, it's THROUGH FAITH, that is not of ourselves, that is a free gift, that is something we should NEVER boast about, which, ahem, boys and girls, includes judging others, and, most certainly, to a greater degreee, faith in Him, which gains Him, will NOT be gained if you stand to condemn others, not that you are now, that's good, but, just saying, it's most important we keep 'faith' in true perspective, and, there is no such thing in Scripture as 'true faith' either, while I got you here, it is just PLAIN faith ! WE ALL have been given a 'measure of faith,' this is a measured amount, by the way, ahhh, I am exhausted from talking so long in this sentence, Ima gonna go get me a slurpee

 

[nl]

How can you say that you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ if you don't love and obey Him?

 

[GreenNnice]

" His cross will never ask for more than I can give." Wow ! Just 'wow.' FAITH !

God bless all you, guys, and, remember, Christ is our difference, we are all His , He IS all our same foundation we find ourselves building our lives on

FAith, the suffering Paul speaks of in verses 10 and 11 of Philipians 3 is FAITH, that is what it takes to give, for it's not his strength but His, and, Paul, as we all should be , want our cause of life to be a suffering, as He leads, us, crucified with Christ

[video=youtube;_0_1jazh454]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0_1jazh454[/video]

 

[Wall]

Ive heard from time to time here that faith and law don't mix.

HEBREWS 11 [28] THROUGH FAITH HE KEPT THE PASSOVER, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Isnt the Passover part of the law?

 

[crossnote]

Yeah, if that was the point I was trying to make. There is therefore no condemnation once in Christ. But "the many" claim there in the faith of Christ having never gone to the schoolmaster. Tried to take a short cut I suppose. But even if you were under the schoolmaster and have come to true faith in Christ.

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, whichshall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31]DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish thelaw.

When we come to true faith in Christ here is what happens over time...
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

See, we are changed into His image and His image is a reflection of the law. 'We are changed ' doesn't mean we change ourselves. It is the Spirit who works in us both to will and to do...so again, the glory goes to Him.

 

[crossnote]

Romans 3:27-31 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

...hmm...'where is boasting? excluded, because of works? No, but by faith.
'justified apart from the deeds of the law'
'We establish the law through faith'.

How? Since God has concluded all guilty and fallen short of His glory, how is our law keeping going to breach the large rupture between us and God? It doesn't. Then how does faith?
Answer...True faith takes hold on Christ and rests in His perfect Lawkeeping as well as His promises to us who have placed our only hope in Him. The law is upheld as we point to and trust in the Only one who kept it.The law is also fulfilled in us to the extent we are changed into His image.

 

[Wall]

...hmm...'where is boasting? excluded, because of works? No, but by faith.
'justified apart from the deeds of the law'
'We establish the law through faith'.

Aint that the truth. We could never be justified by the keeping of the law. We all have fallen short, we all are as filthy rags. Thanks be to Jesus and our faith in Him we are redeemed.

 

[Wall]

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness

DEUT. 30 [10] If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. [11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. [12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, WHO SHALL GO UP FOR US TO HEAVEN, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [14] But THE WORD IS VERY NIGH UNTO THEE, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Israel was told they were to keep Gods 10 commandments

ROMANS 10 [1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [2] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4] For CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that believeth. [5] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. [6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down from above [7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) [8] But what saith it? THE WORD IS NIGH THEE, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

But Israel was ignorant at the time that they could not attain Gods righteousness by keeping the law. They did not know that Christ was the end of the law for righteousness. No matter how well they kept the 10 commandments they would fall short and be as filthy rags. The bottom line is that we as believers are still to keep Gods 10 commandments but its only by grace through faith in the shed blood of Christ that we are made righteous. His blood alone washes us clean from our short comings in keeping His law. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness.

Revelation 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Many will try and tell you that you cant mix faith and Gods law. Apples and oranges they will claim. Scripture above will clear that up

 

[Wall]

Aint that the truth. We could never be justified by the keeping of the law. We all have fallen short, we all are as filthy rags. Thanks be to Jesus and our faith in Him we are redeemed.

If we were not to observe to keep the law we couldn't be as filthy rags nor have fallen short in keeping Gods law

 

[GreenNnice]

Aint that the truth. We could never be justified by the keeping of the law. We all have fallen short, we all are as filthy rags. Thanks be to Jesus and our faith in Him we are redeemed.

The key is faith in Him, through faith, God works, Ephesians 2:8 to 9 to 10 so perfectly points this out, it's like hitting a wall of understanding, or, enlightenment. Exactly, wallwalker, exactly, 'faith in Him,' Phil. 3:8 . Faith in Him. We GAIN Christ by a faith in Him. Now, what that 'faith in HIm' means is what's storied and festering debate, at times, but, we believe in the same Christ, who's told us, 'By grace are ye saved, through faith, and that (faith) is not of ourselves (doing), it is a free gift of God, that no one should boast (of). There is grace, we are absolutely positively saved by grace, the law does not in and of itself save us, but those who love Him, and, as wallwalker says, that have 'faith in Him,' and, those that 'obey His voice' do, they will be the ones who KNOW His voice. YOU must have a human response to being saved, there IS a human response and, once saved, you are His, in the shelter of His wings. But, God gave us two legs and we can walk from Him, we can depart the faith, so says 1 Tim. 4:1. And, some will, Paul tells us. Some WILL. Why? They lose FAITH in Him. Right? If we gain Christ by faith in Him, then, what's the opposite of gain ? Loss

 

[GreenNnice]

Romans 3:27-31 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

...hmm...'where is boasting? excluded, because of works? No, but by faith.
'justified apart from the deeds of the law'
'We establish the law through faith'.

How? Since God has concluded all guilty and fallen short of His glory, how is our law keeping going to breach the large rupture between us and God? It doesn't. Then how does faith?
Answer...True faith takes hold on Christ and rests in His perfect Lawkeeping as well as His promises to us who have placed our only hope in Him. The law is upheld as we point to and trust in the Only one who kept it.The law is also fulfilled in us to the extent we are changed into His image.

You're getting hung up on the TRUE meaning of these words, crossnoted, I think.
And, there is nowhere in Scripture that speaks of 'true faith,' so why do you ? It is just 'faith.'

 

[GreenNnice]

When we come to true faith in Christ here is what happens over time...
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

See, we are changed into His image and His image is a reflection of the law. 'We are changed ' doesn't mean we change ourselves. It is the Spirit who works in us both to will and to do...so again, the glory goes to Him.

Crossnoted, where does it say this, if I may be so bold No, but, I'm being serious. Where?

God's image is not a reflection of the law, it's a reflection of something else

 

[crossnote]

Aint that the truth. We could never be justified by the keeping of the law. We all have fallen short, we all are as filthy rags. Thanks be to Jesus and our faith in Him we are redeemed.

Hey. You're not suppose to agree, but since you snipped my post I guess you would.

 

[GreenNnice]

If we were not to observe to keep the law we couldn't be as filthy rags nor have fallen short in keeping Gods law

Every one of us has 'evil' in our heart. Christ usurps that evil from us by the blood of His Son dying on the cross, COVERS ALL our evil we've done, will do, and are doing right now. Crossnoted, quit doing that evil ! Wallwalker, quit it, now !

Don't you get it, guys, this is for ALL of us, we are 'evil,' we were created with sin in us, it was that way from the beginning of time. IF we had no sin in us, then, there would have NEVER been Eve with the ability to transgress nor Adam to sin . Right

God's grace of His Son dying on the cross covers all the 'evil' that Jesus speaks of here, and, forgive the context, the verse speaks of our beings being evil, that is what is to be viewed, pondered

Luke 11:13 , Jesus:

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"


See, when we accept Christ we are STILL evil. The Holy Spirit gives us power within (of Him) to do battle with the principalities and powers-- the demons and Satan-- without, or, in other words, in the world, the stuff that our flesh LOVES
Why?

Because it consumes EVIL ! Flesh is inside us, ready to ACT at all times, Christian, non-Christian, doesn't matter, our flesh is ripe for doing wrong and Satan is right there to spoil all the fruit that we REALLY want to do with his lies

. By the way, can I use 'without' in that way. I just did so it works and that seals it

But, we are evil, but God's grace covers us, I hope this makes some sense in explaining and adding to the fact we ARE, indeed, as 'filthy rags,' we are, we ARE in a sinful state despite being IN CHRIST, but His blood covers us, we HAVE been imputed the righteousness of Christ, having chosen a faith in Him

 

[crossnote]

You're getting hung up on the TRUE meaning of these words, crossnoted, I think.
And, there is nowhere in Scripture that speaks of 'true faith,' so why do you ? It is just 'faith.'

An example of true faith is trusting in Jesus and His Work alone to save.
An example of false faith is trusting in one's faith.
If you have further problems with what true faith is and is not, please consult Scripture as there are myriads of examples found therein even if the exact term may not be spelled out.

 

[GreenNnice]

Anyway, I don't mean to interrupt your good conversation with wallwalker, crossnoted, it's just important that Christ is viewed as 'grace,' and, not as a 'reflection of the law,' as you put it. When we see God, we should see His grace , or, His Love . How else can we have faith? We can't have faith in the law ! We humans are contrarian, rebellious, in our real nature's of the law. The law is there so that we KNOW we need a Saviiour