There are historical accounts, poetry, prophecy, parables, and doctrine (propositional truths) all found in the bible all weaving together the drama of redemption. To fall into a reductionist view of the bible such as all is 'artistry' and not taking into account the other modes e.g. 'prophecy' is to fall into a theological liberal trap.
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C
I think God changes... I don't think God's goodness changes, that which makes God sovereign does not change, but God does seem to change God's approach depending on the situation. Sometimes the Lord changes decisions; just look at Exodus 32:14, because Moses interceded on behalf of the people the Lord relented from the disaster (the old KJV even uses the word 'evil', as if God was going to bring 'evil' onto the Israelites - crazy!) that he was going to bring upon the Israelites.
The Old Testament brings up the possibility in some verses that sometimes God acted or was thought to act in a way that was 'evil,'... but if God's sovereign good at the same time how is that possible? Really makes us think a little bit more about how we think of evil.
This thread was started with a good question and it is a difficult one to answer; I hope that people will choose to engage with the difficult question instead of quoting a simple answer and moving on. Some questions deserve to be wrestled with.
The Old Testament brings up the possibility in some verses that sometimes God acted or was thought to act in a way that was 'evil,'... but if God's sovereign good at the same time how is that possible? Really makes us think a little bit more about how we think of evil.
This thread was started with a good question and it is a difficult one to answer; I hope that people will choose to engage with the difficult question instead of quoting a simple answer and moving on. Some questions deserve to be wrestled with.
J
when God sent abraham to sacrifice isaac on mt moriah God knew that He had no intention of letting abraham follow through.but abraham did not know that. abraham hoped that but he was willing to do whatever God asked him to because he believed that what God had promised him He would do. God promised that the great nation he was to become would come through isaac. therefore abraham believed that God would ressurect his son if he were made to follow through. when we see what appear to be contradictions in God's word or in his behavior this is an area in which we need to get to know God more. knowing God assures us of His intentions no matter what the appearance may be
C
I disagree, if we honestly have questions, we need to ask them. We are living a lie if our hearts question God and we are too scared to question in the first place. God has broad shoulders, He can take questioning. There are many Biblical examples of people questioning God, from Abraham, to Moses, to half of the Psalms, to Job, to all the people who had questions for Jesus... and at the end of the day many of these people were still considered righteous in the eyes of God.
God has giving man a kingdom to reign over, but they had failed to reach the level of perfection. He has made judges of some like Samson and which he has failed; and which he was suppose to purified the land from all wickeness so that they can live accordingly to the Laws. And even during the time of Solomon, when it was a peaceful time ( no wars to fight), but the people weren't able to keep the Laws still. Now God see that the flesh is keeping us from reaching that goal, andso He is going to give us new bodies that will not let us fall; but it will be given to those who are worthy.
B
God doesn't change, people do. The way He comunicates with us have differed over time because laws were changed due to the sacrifice of Jesus for us, populations growing, maybe a few other things. God's discipline, blessings, healings etc. havent changed. They are all still here for us to share. Since Christ came, preached, died and rose again there is no need for the laws of the OT, and the apostles had first hand knowledge of Jesus so gave accurate accounts. Now we have the written word, each others experiences, and the Holy Spirit to teach us he same things the Apostles learned and taught.
All you need to understand!! is to get the facts of the world since the beginning in one paragraph! Pretty hard to do.
The overall scheme of God is to have the people he created live in a world of abundance and safety, and after we live here a lifetime to live on with Him in heaven. When we harm each other (sin) we can't live here well, and God can't have sin in heaven.
The first bunch of people were failures, couldn't live well on this earth, and God couldn't have such people in heaven. They had no love for each other or for God. God sent the flood and started over, and this time he created a race of people to learn about Him, made Abraham the start of the race, and scripture gives the history of that. It is the OT. That is a teaching in learning to be kind to each other, and even accept any person regardless of race, that wanted to join in God's family.
God knew that when the people He created determined to be sinful, would never change from that, they had to be gotten rid of or the world could not be a happy, fruitful place. You are reading that as God being cruel. God is not cruel ever.
Christ is a theme all through all of history. Christ is part of God and God is eternal. Something supernatural happened through Christ that means that when we sin, we can still be counted as sinless. Our part in that is that we know there is a God who is holy, and we repent of sin. Repent means we turn from it. Because God is eternal, but God uses our awareness of time to reveal Himself to us, God had His Son live in the time we use. The world uses this to divide time into before Christ and after Christ. Before Christ lived on earth as a man this was called atonement, and a shadow of what was in eternal time was used of Christ, through symbolism of Him. They used the blood of animals as a shadow of the real blood of Christ, with priests, temples, many things called the sacrificial system. We are to study this system to better understand Christ, but we are not to use it after Christ lived with us. The NT tells us how to use the Lord Christ to live abundantly and free from sin using Christ as He lived and died as a man.
The main difference between the two testaments is not in God, but in how we are to use Christ for forgiveness of sin.
The overall scheme of God is to have the people he created live in a world of abundance and safety, and after we live here a lifetime to live on with Him in heaven. When we harm each other (sin) we can't live here well, and God can't have sin in heaven.
The first bunch of people were failures, couldn't live well on this earth, and God couldn't have such people in heaven. They had no love for each other or for God. God sent the flood and started over, and this time he created a race of people to learn about Him, made Abraham the start of the race, and scripture gives the history of that. It is the OT. That is a teaching in learning to be kind to each other, and even accept any person regardless of race, that wanted to join in God's family.
God knew that when the people He created determined to be sinful, would never change from that, they had to be gotten rid of or the world could not be a happy, fruitful place. You are reading that as God being cruel. God is not cruel ever.
Christ is a theme all through all of history. Christ is part of God and God is eternal. Something supernatural happened through Christ that means that when we sin, we can still be counted as sinless. Our part in that is that we know there is a God who is holy, and we repent of sin. Repent means we turn from it. Because God is eternal, but God uses our awareness of time to reveal Himself to us, God had His Son live in the time we use. The world uses this to divide time into before Christ and after Christ. Before Christ lived on earth as a man this was called atonement, and a shadow of what was in eternal time was used of Christ, through symbolism of Him. They used the blood of animals as a shadow of the real blood of Christ, with priests, temples, many things called the sacrificial system. We are to study this system to better understand Christ, but we are not to use it after Christ lived with us. The NT tells us how to use the Lord Christ to live abundantly and free from sin using Christ as He lived and died as a man.
The main difference between the two testaments is not in God, but in how we are to use Christ for forgiveness of sin.
N
God's laws are eternal they never change. If you read Psalms 119 it explains God's laws to us, they are the same as the day the world was created. The only thing Christ changed was the way the sacrificial system was to be done, altho it is the same sacrifice. Christ is in eternity, Christ is God. A shadow, as the sacrificial system was based on, has to have a substance or it cannot be a shadow. Now real blood is to be used, the temple is our bodies, Christ is the high priest, etc. Those things changed, but God principles did not. The shadow of Christ's blood gave atonement, or incomplete forgiveness that Christ completed.
N
The only way we can learn God is by having his holy spirit, praying, reading and meditate on his glory and goodness. not asking people about the will of God. To ask why God did this or did that is out of our place.
Romans 9:18-23 KJV
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,...
Its ok to ask and learn about events in the bible...but to question why God did this and that shows we doubt his plan.
Romans 9:18-23 KJV
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,...
Its ok to ask and learn about events in the bible...but to question why God did this and that shows we doubt his plan.
E
But the prophecy mode, is artsy too. Remember the bread baking from the other thread? Locusts with hair like women and sun black as sackcloth etc? Why not just say the sun was black, why sackcloth in particular?
Or, a random snippet from whatever I happen to have opened up in front of me, Isaiah
"I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron"
It's all artsy. Of course, parts of it are historical fact, but the whole thing is artsy. Otherwise we have denominations like those in another thread I just posted in, where their members worry about wearing hats, and Paul goes artsy to compare hat wearing with proper prayer targeting.
It's all artsy. Every word of it is like a hammer that breaks the stone into smaller, easier to handle pieces.
I do think Noah built a real boat, I do think fire poured down from the sky on sodom, etc.
But what are we getting from those stories? They say much more about what goes on inside us during our walk than just filling us with jaw dropping miracles to tell in sunday school.
They are artsy so they would be easy to remember and teach children. Later, they get to figure out what the point really is. If they know that it's a masterpiece of poetry that "builds the temple" or "becomes a potter's finished product".
Or, a random snippet from whatever I happen to have opened up in front of me, Isaiah
"I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron"
It's all artsy. Of course, parts of it are historical fact, but the whole thing is artsy. Otherwise we have denominations like those in another thread I just posted in, where their members worry about wearing hats, and Paul goes artsy to compare hat wearing with proper prayer targeting.
It's all artsy. Every word of it is like a hammer that breaks the stone into smaller, easier to handle pieces.
I do think Noah built a real boat, I do think fire poured down from the sky on sodom, etc.
But what are we getting from those stories? They say much more about what goes on inside us during our walk than just filling us with jaw dropping miracles to tell in sunday school.
They are artsy so they would be easy to remember and teach children. Later, they get to figure out what the point really is. If they know that it's a masterpiece of poetry that "builds the temple" or "becomes a potter's finished product".