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They got it wrong because they were focused on performing spiritual gifts, instead of being focused on Christ. Spiritual gifts are not something we can command at will. The Holy Spirit alone determines when and how those gifts will be used. Therefore, the gifts are not of ourselves, but from the Holy Spirit alone. Furthermore, one can test the spirits, to see whether or not the "gifts" come from God or not, by reading Scripture. If one requires an authoritative voice on differentiation between things that are of God and the things which are not, one only needs to look to God's Word. And I can objectively say that Paul writes about spiritual gifts, which come from the power of the Holy Spirit.
Grace and Peace!
Grace and Peace!
N
I suppose I could take it a step further . . . And I am not trying to get topical on you. So please, bear with me.
Suppose you are evangelizing to a non-believer. You think using the Romans Road or The Four Spiritual Laws will work best, considering the individual you are evangelizing to may be most receptive to an intellectual method of evangelizing. Now also consider, regardless of what you say, the individual is being stubborn. You do not understand why the individual is not convinced Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, as you have followed the intellectual models of evangelism to the letter. After giving up on these methods, you suddenly say something you would not expect to convict the heart of the non-believer. Perhaps, whatever it is you said, you mentioned only in passing, or maybe you do not even know why you said it. Yet the non-believer's heart is convicted in an instant! All of a sudden, the non-believer falls to his hands and knees crying, and he begins to praise God and asks God for grace and forgiveness. Wow! You didn't see that one coming . . .
Spiritual gifts are employed in the same manner. We cannot control them or employ them at will; rather, their use is determined by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, the example I just gave you, as you are well aware, has occurred many times. And I thought I would mention this in passing, but, the example I provided you of the non-believer being convicted, also shows the person evangelizing to him was given the gift of knowledge. Why do you ask? The person evangelizing could not have known that whatever he said in passing to the non-believer is what it took for that non-believer to be convicted and repent of their sins.
Grace and Peace!
Suppose you are evangelizing to a non-believer. You think using the Romans Road or The Four Spiritual Laws will work best, considering the individual you are evangelizing to may be most receptive to an intellectual method of evangelizing. Now also consider, regardless of what you say, the individual is being stubborn. You do not understand why the individual is not convinced Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, as you have followed the intellectual models of evangelism to the letter. After giving up on these methods, you suddenly say something you would not expect to convict the heart of the non-believer. Perhaps, whatever it is you said, you mentioned only in passing, or maybe you do not even know why you said it. Yet the non-believer's heart is convicted in an instant! All of a sudden, the non-believer falls to his hands and knees crying, and he begins to praise God and asks God for grace and forgiveness. Wow! You didn't see that one coming . . .
Spiritual gifts are employed in the same manner. We cannot control them or employ them at will; rather, their use is determined by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, the example I just gave you, as you are well aware, has occurred many times. And I thought I would mention this in passing, but, the example I provided you of the non-believer being convicted, also shows the person evangelizing to him was given the gift of knowledge. Why do you ask? The person evangelizing could not have known that whatever he said in passing to the non-believer is what it took for that non-believer to be convicted and repent of their sins.
Grace and Peace!
N
Again, you seem fixated on the gift of tongues, and the problems one may encounter in determining whether or not the tongues came from God or some evil spirit. Yet why have you not yet responded to my question pertaining to the spiritual gifts of knowledge, wisdom, DISCERNMENT, etc., with regards to the topic of Continuationism? And to answer your question, I suppose the only way to determine whether or not the tongue you speak comes from God is to consult Scripture. If Scripture does not contain the answer you are looking for, ask God directly in prayer. Doesn't Paul say the Holy Spirit might give us the gift of discernment? It is apparent then, that if you pray to God for discernment, He will give it to you. Ask and you will receive. Seek and you will find. Knock and it will opened.
Grace and Peace!
Grace and Peace!
1) discernment
Hebrews 5
Warning Against Apostasy
11About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
2) Spirit confirms
Ephesians 1
11In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,e to the praise of his glory.
3) Scriptures confirm
Cessationism Resources < for those who will actually spend the time. some do.
4) all other issues addressed by resources above, including faking things like tongues
5) take another poll and find out how many people will actually identify as cessationist - an hyper-minority - virtually none.
6) finally.....typically, you're still making it a personal (tit-for-tat) issue instead of addressing the practices and doctrines. others are at least making the effort. you can't and won't so why are you involved?
still just whining.
Hebrews 5
Warning Against Apostasy
11About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
2) Spirit confirms
Ephesians 1
11In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,e to the praise of his glory.
3) Scriptures confirm
Cessationism Resources < for those who will actually spend the time. some do.
4) all other issues addressed by resources above, including faking things like tongues
5) take another poll and find out how many people will actually identify as cessationist - an hyper-minority - virtually none.
6) finally.....typically, you're still making it a personal (tit-for-tat) issue instead of addressing the practices and doctrines. others are at least making the effort. you can't and won't so why are you involved?
still just whining.
Nah,I talk to people as individuals. I have no real method of preaching the gospel. I just talk about Jesus,about who He is and what He did.
Nope never surprised that most will reject the gospel and many will reject for a season before they believe.
Sorry the Lord said His word is two edged sword. His word will do that,that is not necissarily the gift of knowledge that Paul is speaking of. When the Bible uses terms like knowledge,wisdom and faith,they all have multiple meanings in English. If one uses the wrong meaning of the word it is off base. One can be given the gift of knowledge (IE Paul when he speaks of revealed mysteries) and knowledge that is learned from studying the word. One can learn and apply wisdom and one can be given the gift of wisdom. One can have the measure of faith that is given to all believers and one can be given the gift of faith. Does not mean they are one and the same.
Nope never surprised that most will reject the gospel and many will reject for a season before they believe.
Sorry the Lord said His word is two edged sword. His word will do that,that is not necissarily the gift of knowledge that Paul is speaking of. When the Bible uses terms like knowledge,wisdom and faith,they all have multiple meanings in English. If one uses the wrong meaning of the word it is off base. One can be given the gift of knowledge (IE Paul when he speaks of revealed mysteries) and knowledge that is learned from studying the word. One can learn and apply wisdom and one can be given the gift of wisdom. One can have the measure of faith that is given to all believers and one can be given the gift of faith. Does not mean they are one and the same.
he didn't say anything like "when we come into the full presence of God".
please document.
quote the entire passage and show him saying that.
the miraculous sign gifts were PARTIAL in what they each delivered.
when the complete (Revelation of the Will and Plan of God - don't call it canon - call it the last recorded word) HOLY WRIT was delivered, this would be true for 2000 years:
2 Timothy 3
All Scripture is God-Breathed
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
do you believe the Holy Scriptures are able to make the man of God perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works?
is the Gospel the power of God unto salvation of the soul?
what do we need unintelligible noises for?
or for that matter, the true gift of tongues - instantly miraculously knowing another language is no longer needed, since the message has gone into all the world - beginning at the True Pentecost.
please document.
quote the entire passage and show him saying that.
the miraculous sign gifts were PARTIAL in what they each delivered.
when the complete (Revelation of the Will and Plan of God - don't call it canon - call it the last recorded word) HOLY WRIT was delivered, this would be true for 2000 years:
2 Timothy 3
All Scripture is God-Breathed
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
do you believe the Holy Scriptures are able to make the man of God perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works?
is the Gospel the power of God unto salvation of the soul?
what do we need unintelligible noises for?
or for that matter, the true gift of tongues - instantly miraculously knowing another language is no longer needed, since the message has gone into all the world - beginning at the True Pentecost.
what does that mean?
can you be any more vague?
what work? preaching from THE WORD?
which has everything needed for salvation and equipping for EVERY good work?
John 14:26
New International Version (©2011)
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative--that is, the Holy Spirit--he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.
the Spirit is supposed to be pointing to Jesus.
can you be any more vague?
what work? preaching from THE WORD?
which has everything needed for salvation and equipping for EVERY good work?
John 14:26
New International Version (©2011)
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative--that is, the Holy Spirit--he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.
the Spirit is supposed to be pointing to Jesus.
please document exactly Paul saying it is some spiritual (angelic?) language?
he doesn't.
this is ALL about KNOWN human languages.
languages WERE A SIGN FOR UNBELIEVERS.
is it possible to stop contradicting the passages?
one would think so, but apparently not.
how does glossolalia glorify God?
please, be SPECIFIC.
he doesn't.
this is ALL about KNOWN human languages.
languages WERE A SIGN FOR UNBELIEVERS.
is it possible to stop contradicting the passages?
one would think so, but apparently not.
how does glossolalia glorify God?
please, be SPECIFIC.
N
The English transliteration of the word "knowledge," as used in 1 Corinthians 12:8, is "gnosis;" G/K 1194. Furthermore, the same transliteration is found in Romans 2:20, 11:33, 15:14; 1 Corinthians 1:5, 8:1, 8:1, 8:10, 8:11, 12:8, 13:2, 13:8, 14:6; 2 Corinthians 2:14, 4:6, 8:7, 10:5, 11:6; Ephesians 3:19; Philippians 3:8; Colossians 2:3; 1 Timothy 6:20; 2 Peter 1:5, 1:6, 3:18. In fact, it is used a total of 29 times in the New Testament.
I am sorry we cannot come to an agreement, at the very least, on what this word means, in context of 1 Corinthians 12:8, as Paul uses it to describe "knowledge" that comes from the Holy Spirit.
Grace and Peace!
I am sorry we cannot come to an agreement, at the very least, on what this word means, in context of 1 Corinthians 12:8, as Paul uses it to describe "knowledge" that comes from the Holy Spirit.
Grace and Peace!
N
(1) I never said anything about speaking in an "angelic" language.
(2) Paul does discuss speaking in tongues at home, in private, and also mentions that this is an instance of speaking in a spiritual tongue.
(3) The Holy Spirit, through the writings of Paul (I do believe in verbal-plenary Inspiration), does state the Holy Spirit gives the knowledge of discernment.
(4) If the act of one speaking in tongues in a particular instance does not glorify God, by edifying the church, or by evangelizing to non-believers in a language not known to the person speaking in tongues (excluding when one speaks in tongues in private, at home), then it is safe to say that that particular instance of one speaking in tongues may be questionable.
(2) Paul does discuss speaking in tongues at home, in private, and also mentions that this is an instance of speaking in a spiritual tongue.
(3) The Holy Spirit, through the writings of Paul (I do believe in verbal-plenary Inspiration), does state the Holy Spirit gives the knowledge of discernment.
(4) If the act of one speaking in tongues in a particular instance does not glorify God, by edifying the church, or by evangelizing to non-believers in a language not known to the person speaking in tongues (excluding when one speaks in tongues in private, at home), then it is safe to say that that particular instance of one speaking in tongues may be questionable.