Cessationism or Continuationism: What Does Scripture Say?

[zone]

Though the gifts are given freely from God you must believe in them in order to operate in them. They require faith like everything else in Christianity. The reason the gifts all but disappeared in the historical account is that major sects in the church began to adopt theology which taught the gifts were no longer needed because their church was the promised kingdom. God did not take the gifts away. People did not operate in the gifts because they no longer believed in them after were instructed that the gifts had stopped.

this explanation - lack of faith.
at least we established there was a cessation (due to lack of faith; outside God's Plan; He must be disappointed)

ok....so the church's lack of faith had the power to suppress the gifts - The Holy Spirit Himself....

for how long?

how long has the church been limping along in complete ignorance without the gifts...and more seriously....without faith?

and have we seen a more complete mature church since the Pentecostal Movement/Latter Rain/revival of the 'gifts'?

 

[GreenNnice]

And, I'm saying, "I don't care."

NO worries, I was never saying you were needing to see someone step out of a wheelchair to believe, sarahsarah, k

The thing is we should care. It goes back to one thing either these things are of the Lord or they are not. When this type of stuff is not from the Lord then people are then messing around with witchcraft,divination and idolatry. That is not a place where one should be. That is a very bad place to be. God destroyed Israel for it and sent Judah into captivity. How serious does God want us to know where it is coming from? And what is so hard to understand about that? The sad part is I see so many who just blow it off as if it's not a big deal to know for sure where it's coming from. Almost all of it is based on subjective reasoning. God does judge witchcraft,divination and idolatry very harshly and if we don't get that we have a very serious problem. So once again it goes back to the heart of the matter is this from God or not and how do we tell the difference?

What the?

Do you even read what I write, sarahsarah, k?

C'mon, I said, I don't care that people show me signs to believe. I STILL believe. Figure it out, milady, and, then, comment, but, yeah, huh, OK, yeah, Lord, 'Love,' got it, k, so, yeah, sarahsarah (and sorry had another convo therre quick ) NO worries, I Love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and, love others as myself, try, anyway. It is ssooooo difficult on that 2nd one, LOL< I am doing so good in the monring often (with God) and then I get up and have to go out and deal with ___________

Well, you know

But, God is good, and, I certainly CARE !!

 

[GreenNnice]

And, I'm saying, "I don't care."

NO worries, I was never saying you were needing to see someone step out of a wheelchair to believe, sarahsarah, k

this explanation - lack of faith.
at least we established there was a cessation (due to lack of faith; outside God's Plan; He must be disappointed)

ok....so the church's lack of faith had the power to suppress the gifts - The Holy Spirit Himself....

for how long?

how long has the church been limping along in complete ignorance without the gifts...and more seriously....without faith?

and have we seen a more complete mature church since the Pentecostal Movement/Latter Rain/revival of the 'gifts'?

That's not cessation, what gal220 said, it's disobedience ! Or, it is 'lack of faith,' as you say, ohzone? idk, good one . either way, glad to hear, that 'faith' stopped the gifts and not some AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWww-AHHHHHHH shining God-light or something. You know, that commercial . That light, that light, vah-LALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLA-AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHH .

Anyway, that light. Aww, I know, you get it, ohzone, you get it, unless you don't, I guess. Seems so simple to me


Oh, and ohzone, you say, how long has the church been limping along in complete ignorance of the spiritual gifts, or, just gifts of tongues, prophecy, healing, maybe, I'm not sure where you draw the line?


Idk, how long??? Can we play 20 questions . oh, but, STOP! We can only play IF we invite God to answer , too

 

[GreenNnice]

that's just plain creepy, when you start talking about someone getting out of a wheelchair as witchcraft. Can't you tell he difference between being blessed in your life and not, sarahsarah. Weird. Just plain weird to mention that.

Again, you AND I have no clue what God is doing , let Him do it, LOL, like , you want to say healings ended and you never seen no one out of a wheelchair. fine. does that make you care more to have reason not to believe? See, milady, THIS is where I am saying that 'I don't care.'

I've seen God move in my life, little ways, but, throughout it, He moves, I dunno, I've never had surgery, broken bone of pinky is all, I have whatever God has for me but I'm thankful, still a lot of things in my life. NOW< what happens when I lose my life of His for me of now, that will be GOOD too, I would hope and pray for me, that I would see that He is just changing my life and, though, I must admit, talking on c.c. so so about things that I think are despicable to God does act as my 'suffering' as I would rather be doing other things than explaining to someone that I care about others BEING LED TO CHRIST AND IF GOD USES A WHEELCHAIR MIRACLE TO DO IT , so be it, He does it. How do you knjow it's fake?

It's NOT fake !!! It's real, K. Get that through your head. I don't care if you NEVER seen someone who was confined to a wheelchair all your life, sarahsarah, and , k, with me, and, then, they get up and you don't believe it, but, be ready, YOUR belief is SCARY in my opinion, based on what you said with the wheelchair comment a few post #s back and your accompanying ""

But, that'/s just me, you got your way of believing mockingly of THAT , and, that's fine, I KNOW, that God will show you a situation of some sort that will get you to understand His gifts are there for the taking and He wants you to TAKE them and, certainly, believe them.

That's the difference between you and me, I believe in the gifts. I don't need to see the gifts to believe that God did them (note: this has ZIP to do with me condemning salvation, I'm not doing that, at all. You just don't see the fullness of God's power like I do out there, and, that's fine, I don't care that you do SEE it as long as you believe in Him, whiich I believe you DO believe in HIm ) and YOU DO !


And, that in a nutshell is what I meant when I said, 'I don't care' and you went off thinkiing that wheelchair miracles were potentially some witchcraft thing. LOL, maybe, just maybe, you should have more faith and vulnerability in God's work in your life is my best advice, because God is doing miracles all the time, and, God has given you His Spirit inside you so you have Him with you walking and talking and IF He don't tell you on the spot that Satan is at the core of that wheelchair miracle then what the! But, of course, God WILL tell you, He WILL be with you, as long as you are with Him. IT's HIM who will NEVER EVER NEVER leave you nor forsake you. This should tell you that you are going to be ON a journey in life, at least, it tells me that, it's going to be trials, it's going to be tribulous but it's going to be OK too, because He is with me
Fine. Let it be.

 

[Stephen63]

this explanation - lack of faith.
at least we established there was a cessation (due to lack of faith; outside God's Plan; He must be disappointed)

ok....so the church's lack of faith had the power to suppress the gifts - The Holy Spirit Himself....

for how long?

how long has the church been limping along in complete ignorance without the gifts...and more seriously....without faith?

and have we seen a more complete mature church since the Pentecostal Movement/Latter Rain/revival of the 'gifts'?

Scripture proves beyond doubt that unbelief hinders the miraculous works of God:

Matthew 13:53-58 (KJV)
[SUP]53 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence. [SUP]54 [/SUP]And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? [SUP]55 [/SUP]Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? [SUP]56 [/SUP]And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? [SUP]57 [/SUP]And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. [SUP]58 [/SUP]And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Matthew 17:14-20 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, [SUP]15 [/SUP]Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? [SUP]20 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Romans 11:17-21 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; [SUP]18 [/SUP]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: [SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Hebrews 3:14-19 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [SUP]15 [/SUP]While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [SUP]19 [/SUP]So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

If Jesus Himself was limited by unbelief, He who had the Spirit without measure, it is only common sense that His church can be limited as well.

Acts 20:24-30 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Even in the 1st century, evil abounded, & that would cause a great deal of unbelief. Nobody knows truely how bad it was back then, but from what Paul said, it looked pretty bad.

 

[GreenNnice]

And, therebelow is the Word version of what I ^^^^ just said thereabove in post #224 . Wording iit great, stevebuddy, wording it great . Gre-e-e--e-at is the Lord 'Course, in my post , I did mention the word, 'disobedience,' so, is 'unbelief' in what God put out for us disobeying Him ?

Scripture proves beyond doubt that unbelief hinders the miraculous works of God:

Matthew 13:53-58 (KJV)
[SUP]53 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence. [SUP]54 [/SUP]And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? [SUP]55 [/SUP]Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? [SUP]56 [/SUP]And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? [SUP]57 [/SUP]And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. [SUP]58 [/SUP]And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Matthew 17:14-20 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, [SUP]15 [/SUP]Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? [SUP]20 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Romans 11:17-21 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; [SUP]18 [/SUP]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: [SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Hebrews 3:14-19 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [SUP]15 [/SUP]While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [SUP]19 [/SUP]So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

If Jesus Himself was limited by unbelief, He who had the Spirit without measure, it is only common sense that His church can be limited as well.

Acts 20:24-30 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Even in the 1st century, evil abounded, & that would cause a great deal of unbelief. Nobody knows truely how bad it was back then, but from what Paul said, it looked pretty bad.

 

[zone]

That's not cessation, what gal220 said, it's disobedience ! Or, it is 'lack of faith,' as you say, ohzone? idk, good one . either way, glad to hear, that 'faith' stopped the gifts and not some AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWww-AHHHHHHH shining God-light or something. You know, that commercial . That light, that light, vah-LALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLA-AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHH .

Anyway, that light. Aww, I know, you get it, ohzone, you get it, unless you don't, I guess. Seems so simple to me


Oh, and ohzone, you say, how long has the church been limping along in complete ignorance of the spiritual gifts, or, just gifts of tongues, prophecy, healing, maybe, I'm not sure where you draw the line?


Idk, how long??? Can we play 20 questions . oh, but, STOP! We can only play IF we invite God to answer , too

am i supposed to spend time making sense of this?
why not just speak plainly.

 

[GreenNnice]

still another way to put the healing of someone who has been a wheelchair for life or for ever how long, a year, etc. is this way?

Is the healing coming 'In the name of Jesus,' sarahsarah ?

Or, is the healing coming from the middle of some sorta seance circle thingamajigaloo?

Tell me, and, it's rhetorical, but which of these two ways does God get the glory, does God 'draw' others to Him?

I mean, how is God going to show you His power, His glory in life, to those who unbelieve (not you, sarah) IF they don't just SEE with their own eyes how He works. God draws us to Him all differently, we don't just BELIEVE in Christ, God 'draws' us to Him. HOw be it we individually are drawn I do not know, I do not claim to know, the mysteries of godliness are beyond my understanding, I just claim to believe that God changed me, that He came and pointed Himself to me, and, I grew up in church so He had to really 'point' for me to see that just going to church ain't gonna save ya. The Lord leads. It's up to US to follow Him. Is the Lord leading you to watch someone rise from a wheelchair for some reason that He will GET THE GLORY, sarahsarah, I do not know, but, I GUARANTEE you , He know.

 

[zone]

And, therebelow is the Word version of what I ^^^^ just said thereabove in post #224 . Wording iit great, stevebuddy, wording it great . Gre-e-e--e-at is the Lord 'Course, in my post , I did mention the word, 'disobedience,' so, is 'unbelief' in what God put out for us disobeying Him ?

so you guys are agreeing there was a cessation.
but you're blaming it on an unfaithful church (1900 years of it).

mkay.

and today's charismatic and pentecostal churches are the true church operating in the revived gifts they had the faith to receive.

is that the story?

then why are they not speaking known human languages to unbelievers in the languages in which they were born - proclaiming the wonderful works of God?

and whats with the angelic prayer language that is most likely blasphemous?

 

[GreenNnice]

so you guys are agreeing there was a cessation.
but you're blaming it on an unfaithful church (1900 years of it).

mkay.

and today's charismatic and pentecostal churches are the true church operating in the revived gifts they had the faith to receive.

is that the story?

then why are they not speaking known human languages to unbelievers in the languages in which they were born - proclaiming the wonderful works of God?

and whats with the angelic prayer language that is most likely blasphemous?

Who said pentecostal and charismatic churches are the true church operating today but YOU , ohzone

ANY church that believes in God's intentions for that church is going to be blessed with fruit. And 'giftis' giving to a church is one way that God OPERATES

He also can OPERATE in a church that needs help in keeping on the right track of serving Him, maybe,there's a problem with the leadership of the church, don't you think God can come in and edify that church, mend the 'fabric' of that church through a prophesying of some sort, THAT WILL COME TRUE, remember, if someone prophesies in Deuteronomy 18-20-22, then, IF it comes true, then, it is FROM God Scripture says this, right, ohzone ?

The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so. 15The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. 16For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.” 17The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. 18I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.

You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken.

Known languages? What does Scriptture say about when tongues (and prophesying) are spoken and who they are spoken to, ohzone ?

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!” Good Order in Worship

26What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

Tongues and unknown languages, again, gives God the glory and gives unbelievers a reason to believe , God is trying different things, He is drawing people to Him all the time, different strokes, different folks and , God KNOWS THE PERFECT WAY to get others to believe in Him and He is JUST. Now, that said, will 'you' believe ? That is a human response , all God does MUST be followed by a human response, ohzone

 

[zone]

k....thx green.
you're not listening to either side the debate.
over.

 

[GreenNnice]

k....thx green.
you're not listening to either side the debate.
over.

That's not 'unbelief,' is it, ohzone You stopping up your hearers to what He has for you to ear ?

I've listened plainly. but, yeah, uh, I 'liked' your post cuz you said 'the debate is over.' Works for me, milady The Lord leads.

 

[1still_waters]

The gifts will cease when Christ returns. Why make this about tongues.

Wait so there will be a time when tongues aren't spoken?
Doesn't that make God a respecter of persons?
Doesn't that mean Jesus isn't the same yesterday, today, and forever?

Of course the obvious answer is NO!

Yet cessationists get accused of that all the time.

Did you know you're a cessationist too?

Do you believe there is going to be new scripture/revelation added to the Bible?

If you say yes, you're a heretic and the same as some cults using the Christian label.

If you say no, then you're a cessationist too.

The only difference is really the degree and timing between you and others.

 

[GreenNnice]

Wait so there will be a time when tongues aren't spoken?
Doesn't that make God a respecter of persons?
Doesn't that mean Jesus isn't the same yesterday, today, and forever?

Of course the obvious answer is NO!

Yet cessationists get accused of that all the time.

Did you know you're a cessationist too?

Do you believe there is going to be new scripture/revelation added to the Bible?

If you say yes, you're a heretic and the same as some cults using the Christian label.

If you say no, then you're a cessationist too.

The only difference is really the degree and timing between you and others.

The ceasing of tongues = 1st century A.D. for the cessationists . Continuantionists believe God's never stopped up tongues, healings, etc., as I believe, stilledwater.

So, the technicality of 'degree and timing' of tongues ceasing is not in the right context . Both cessasionists and continuationists believe tongues are around in the tribulation time period, I think , have this right, the start of the time after God's raptured His church from having to partake in these turbulent, horrific times to come Again, this is my pre-trib view.

 

[Stephen63]

Wait so there will be a time when tongues aren't spoken?
Doesn't that make God a respecter of persons?
Doesn't that mean Jesus isn't the same yesterday, today, and forever?

Of course the obvious answer is NO!

Yet cessationists get accused of that all the time.

Did you know you're a cessationist too?

Do you believe there is going to be new scripture/revelation added to the Bible?

If you say yes, you're a heretic and the same as some cults using the Christian label.

If you say no, then you're a cessationist too.

The only difference is really the degree and timing between you and others.

The ceasing of scripture has little to do with this topic, nor does it make any sense because scripture isn't a spiritual gift. To me this seems like confusion. I think we have enough of that already.

 

[zone]

Wait so there will be a time when tongues aren't spoken?
Doesn't that make God a respecter of persons?
Doesn't that mean Jesus isn't the same yesterday, today, and forever?

Of course the obvious answer is NO!

Yet cessationists get accused of that all the time.

Did you know you're a cessationist too?

Do you believe there is going to be new scripture/revelation added to the Bible?

If you say yes, you're a heretic and the same as some cults using the Christian label.

If you say no, then you're a cessationist too.

The only difference is really the degree and timing between you and others.

i knew there was a reason i thought you were cool.

 

[GreenNnice]

i knew there was a reason i thought you were cool.

oh, yeah, groovy, you, man, you. LOL .

Somehow, though, as stevestephen points out, there's a real message here getting lost in translastion

 

[Stephen63]

We tend to acknowledge a ceasing of spiritual gifts because people in history wrote about it. So they did, big deal. It seems fishy to me that people would believe those that wrote things in earlier centuries were true on the grounds that they said so, but won't believe living, breathing christians that say they've experienced it. Did anyone know if these historians traveled all over the known world to prove cessationism to themselves? Or did they just take the word of people in the religious hierarchy & write it? I hear that you want proof. That is justifiable. Who in the first 15 centuries was able to go everywhere enough to know the gifts ceased? Are we gonna make demands of today's church without making such demands from religious historians? Especially catholic ones that we never agreed with in the first place? I have come to understand the history I grew up with was tainted, to say the least. World history was hijacked to say whatever it's leaders wanted. Should we believe christian history is as pure as the driven snow? I don't think so.

 

[zone]

oh, yeah, groovy, you, man, you. LOL .

Somehow, though, as stevestephen points out, there's a real message here getting lost in translastion

green:

do you speak in tongues?

just yes or no for now please.

 

[Abiding]

The ceasing of scripture has little to do with this topic, nor does it make any sense because scripture isn't a spiritual gift. To me this seems like confusion. I think we have enough of that already.

Well your last post did even worst......had nothing to do with gifts.
Had to do with believing in the messiah and to with with Gods word.
Never met a cessationists that lacked that.

Are you saying if someone doesnt believe all the manifestations are
in operation today....they are unsaved? Is that what your saying?
If not i think you need verses that apply